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StAnastasia
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Randon quotations, or all 228 pages?
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Earnest_Bunbury
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Sorry, panentheisitic views.
Page 5 of the Bishops critique in the link provided in OP.
Page 17
Page 20
It seems that if the work were not proposed as a work of Catholic theology, it could, and perhaps would, be summarily dismissed, but the Bishops have a duty to preserve the true faith which is synonymous with the true path God has willed for us. The saints attest to this in their holiness as an example to all. We can choose to reject this but calling the USCCB Committee on Doctrine wrong lacks understanding, which is a Gift of the Holy Spirit by the way. … And as Dennis Miller used to say: That’s the news folks, and I am outta’ here!
Granny… I hope you saw my point in incomplete vs fullness. …BTW, I loved your participation in a thread about evolution a while back that included someone else that I have forgotten, perhaps you remember, but it was page after page of terrific disputation, sans the discordance. Au revoir.
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StAnastasia
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One fortuitous side effect of the bishops’ misguided critique is that it has pushed sales of Dr. Johnson’s book Quest for the Living God way up; the $26.00 book’s Amazon sales rank is now 9,626! Compare that with The Catechism. 2nd edition, which costs one third the price, and is ranked 6.465.
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grannymh
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Pick that which represents her theology. Be sure to include the context and page numbers.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Perhaps in August; I’ve got to spend the next month preparing my PowerPoint for a July theology conference.
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grannymh
Guest
Your last paragraph in post 35 is a good explanation. How about this play on words? It is we who are incomplete in the sense that we have lots of room to grow in grace through God’s love.
I wonder how many people recognize the Church Triumphant.
This comment is not about Sister Johnson personally. Rather it is sad about the loss of some beautiful language in an attempt to be modern as in shaking off the old for the novel.
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Earnest_Bunbury
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Seems appropriate sense we grow in holiness to perfection. And purgatory seems to be related to this in that we complete this process there if we turn from the perfecting Grace of our Lord here.
We see them in the saints.I wonder how many people recognize the Church Triumphant.
It seems to be a secularizing of religion because of a loss of the sense of the supernatural. A loss of true faith. Rational understanding takes its place but that is not the understanding that God gives. If we can understand true peace, not just the absence of strife, then we are in the area of understanding. It is given from above.
…As Larry King would end his nightly radio program, “I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say hello, good-bye, I’m late, I’m late, I’m late…” Outta here!
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StAnastasia
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Sister Johnson shares this perspective with you!
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grannymh
Guest
In this thread you shared a lot about Sister Johnson and her book.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=570683
Here is a post from that thread.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7982784&postcount=222
Would you be so kind as to share, from Sister’s book, the perspective you are referring to in post 48 above.
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nordskoven
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“Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.” The bifurcation between sensibilities and knowledge is Gnostic. We can know God through His creation without muzzying up God’s immanence (inside all) and transcendence (above all) by skewing it under “panentheism” [Fallacy of Division]. Sr. Elizabeth Johnson CSJ, a dear Sister of St. Joseph, indulges in the same logic error that her hundreds of supporters do; and has recourse to that paragon of lay empowerment, Avery Dulles. It is mob-ocracy [Appeal to Widespread Belief]. This is but one of the many logic errors larded in Doctor Johnson’s objection to the Bishop’s critique. DOMINUS IESUS has to be marginalized because the uniqueness of power and authority of the Catholic Church is an impediment to pop theology. On the parapet of complexity [Appeal to Complexity] Dr. Johnson suggests her “quest” to grasp the nature and will of God should be mirrored by episcopal confusion and greeted with tolerance.
LOGIC ERRORS LINK:
don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html
Doctor [Argument from Authority/Cartman-ism] Johnson is an accomplished academic. So if her work is undermined with logic errors, it suggests, not a “quest” for truth, but an agenda in search of popular support, rousing the rabble. “Barrabas!” But that’s OK because propaganda is justified when one is sincerely concerned [Pious Fraud] about women [Genetic Fallacy] who are alienated by a grumpy patriarchal ruler-God [Straw Man]. “Gender Theory” is one academic cross-discipline she cites. Bring on da funk. It is what you make it [Weasel Wording]. God, positionally and forensically male, is girl-ized because Wisdom is given in a feminine gender. So what? Throw that out, too. You can’t selectively enforce your rhetoric of confusion.
Wisdom is given as feminine “Ruah.” Maximillian Kolbe explained Our Lady’s words at Lourdes, an absolute seeming to define deity. “I am the Immaculate Conception.” “I am…” Kolbe notes that the Virgin Mary is sharing marital unity with divinity as spouse of the Holy Spirit. This is Holy Spirit territory as no sin against the Holy Spirit can be forgiven and an immaculate conception would be a qualifying standard for this most intimate union. But, having had a CSJ nun hiss the word “priestess” to me as an objective, the divine grant of power and authority, mercy and grace, to the Blessed Virgin and all women (as blessed “among” not “above” women) may not be attractive enough.
Usurping the masculine role of priest may be the goal, though it is males only who may atone for the “Sin of Adam.” That would mean no Real Presence and women missing in action from their role of aiding and abetting crushing the “Father of Lies and Murder.” We will share spousal unity with divinity when Christ returns for His Bride, the forensically female Church His sacrifice makes immaculate. I absent myself from this affirming mob that would divorce me from my Spouse. May the Lord bless us, keep us, make His face to shine upon us and give us His peace.
LOGIC ERRORS LINK:
don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html
Doctor [Argument from Authority/Cartman-ism] Johnson is an accomplished academic. So if her work is undermined with logic errors, it suggests, not a “quest” for truth, but an agenda in search of popular support, rousing the rabble. “Barrabas!” But that’s OK because propaganda is justified when one is sincerely concerned [Pious Fraud] about women [Genetic Fallacy] who are alienated by a grumpy patriarchal ruler-God [Straw Man]. “Gender Theory” is one academic cross-discipline she cites. Bring on da funk. It is what you make it [Weasel Wording]. God, positionally and forensically male, is girl-ized because Wisdom is given in a feminine gender. So what? Throw that out, too. You can’t selectively enforce your rhetoric of confusion.
Wisdom is given as feminine “Ruah.” Maximillian Kolbe explained Our Lady’s words at Lourdes, an absolute seeming to define deity. “I am the Immaculate Conception.” “I am…” Kolbe notes that the Virgin Mary is sharing marital unity with divinity as spouse of the Holy Spirit. This is Holy Spirit territory as no sin against the Holy Spirit can be forgiven and an immaculate conception would be a qualifying standard for this most intimate union. But, having had a CSJ nun hiss the word “priestess” to me as an objective, the divine grant of power and authority, mercy and grace, to the Blessed Virgin and all women (as blessed “among” not “above” women) may not be attractive enough.
Usurping the masculine role of priest may be the goal, though it is males only who may atone for the “Sin of Adam.” That would mean no Real Presence and women missing in action from their role of aiding and abetting crushing the “Father of Lies and Murder.” We will share spousal unity with divinity when Christ returns for His Bride, the forensically female Church His sacrifice makes immaculate. I absent myself from this affirming mob that would divorce me from my Spouse. May the Lord bless us, keep us, make His face to shine upon us and give us His peace.
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StAnastasia
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Her perspective is embedded in her book throughout. When you read it, I will be happy to engage in discussion with you about specific passages over which we may have differing interpretations. I’m not going to summarize over two hundred pages.
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grannymh
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Thank you. I understand what you have been saying.
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nordskoven
Guest
Sister’s book, peeked at Amazon, cites Rudolf Otto, Jungian German Lutheran theologian. And Sister’s fuzzy overview of ancient history reflects Jung, who couldn’t separate apples from oranges any more than Joseph Campbell and his monomyth. The Catholic Bishops make a distinction between the profane and sacred, heterodox and orthodox. This is at odds with Sister’s personal truth. History is at odds with Dr. Johnson’s glossing over ancient orthodoxy as if derived straight from Genesis, as Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen notes; and has witnessed in primitive cultures. I’m waiting for Sister to put “symbologist” on her CV.
It is reminiscent of Gnostic Teilhard de Chardin. When criticized for bad science, he stepped across and defended his work as poetry. When criticized for bad poetry, he stepped back over and defended his work as science. Truth is unitive. Thanks, Aristotle. This dog won’t hunt God when everything smells god-dy to this people-pleasing panentheist. Cesar Chavez, Mary Daly, Black Liberation Theology, Sufi mysticism; bloody religion damned when atheism is the world record holder for genocide in one deadly century, the XXth. This style of writing is academic puffery. Deadly boring. I’m glad you are a pleased people. Thinking good feels better than feeling good, if I may say. This tripe is mental monosexuality. *Hey, NCR, this is Catholic Answers Forums assailing your gates. *
I won’t go to the library. I’m pro-book ownership. If it’s not worth archiving it’s not worthy of my time or cash. I support royalties paid for intellectual property and will not bootleg anything. Believe me, I will not underwrite this travesty of pseudo-intellectualism. I will not spend my Catholic mazuma on Gnostic literature. I note that I was educated by the good Sisters of Saint Joseph/CSJ. Their mother house is in St. Louis. Their scholastic excellence ranged from the sublime to the ridiculous. Sadly this feel good, think bad blarney evinces the latter.
Now, I invite you to read the free link to “Logic Errors.” This push to invest in hippie-think is characteristic of Gnostic radical materialism. No likey. I also urge you to boycott Communist Chinese products. And voting for Democrats. Sister Johnson was quoted by the Bishops. It’s painful. I note they pointed out one logic error arising from her sloppy word smithing. Blind guide, I am not going on this “quest” down the garden path. Locked on, locked out. Open your m i i i i i n d.
Blessed Virgin Mary, wisdom united with Wisdom, bring your earthly spouse, Saint Joseph, to convey divine wisdom to us all, especially those acting under his patronage, and bring Christ’s abundant life to those who remain “faithful and true.” AMEN
It is reminiscent of Gnostic Teilhard de Chardin. When criticized for bad science, he stepped across and defended his work as poetry. When criticized for bad poetry, he stepped back over and defended his work as science. Truth is unitive. Thanks, Aristotle. This dog won’t hunt God when everything smells god-dy to this people-pleasing panentheist. Cesar Chavez, Mary Daly, Black Liberation Theology, Sufi mysticism; bloody religion damned when atheism is the world record holder for genocide in one deadly century, the XXth. This style of writing is academic puffery. Deadly boring. I’m glad you are a pleased people. Thinking good feels better than feeling good, if I may say. This tripe is mental monosexuality. *Hey, NCR, this is Catholic Answers Forums assailing your gates. *
I won’t go to the library. I’m pro-book ownership. If it’s not worth archiving it’s not worthy of my time or cash. I support royalties paid for intellectual property and will not bootleg anything. Believe me, I will not underwrite this travesty of pseudo-intellectualism. I will not spend my Catholic mazuma on Gnostic literature. I note that I was educated by the good Sisters of Saint Joseph/CSJ. Their mother house is in St. Louis. Their scholastic excellence ranged from the sublime to the ridiculous. Sadly this feel good, think bad blarney evinces the latter.
Now, I invite you to read the free link to “Logic Errors.” This push to invest in hippie-think is characteristic of Gnostic radical materialism. No likey. I also urge you to boycott Communist Chinese products. And voting for Democrats. Sister Johnson was quoted by the Bishops. It’s painful. I note they pointed out one logic error arising from her sloppy word smithing. Blind guide, I am not going on this “quest” down the garden path. Locked on, locked out. Open your m i i i i i n d.
Blessed Virgin Mary, wisdom united with Wisdom, bring your earthly spouse, Saint Joseph, to convey divine wisdom to us all, especially those acting under his patronage, and bring Christ’s abundant life to those who remain “faithful and true.” AMEN
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StAnastasia
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nordskoven
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It’s true. I don’t share Dr. Johnson’s intellectual achievements or vocabulary. I’m not ashamed to pick up a dictionary and look up some of the big words Dr. Johnson uses, like: “dynamic”; and “dynamic”; and “dynamic.” And I don’t attribute my dynamic discernment of bloviating pseudo-intellectuals to my college education. It’s a gift from a dynamic God. One must keep refining one’s God-given gifts, however, and had you examined the dynamic list of Logic Errors, you would have noted your AD HOMINEM attack is just such a one.
As to episcopal censure, is there any other way of saying “banned” that will inspire loyalty if you can’t be appealed to on the grounds of avoiding feeble scholarship? This syncretic “quest” will not bring “global Christianity” but the Great Apostasy. I expect you to stop promoting banned books, especially on Catholic Answers Forums. May we all be moved to humble, loving obedience to God, and may He keep us “faithful and true.” And I pray for an end to tenure. AMEN
As to episcopal censure, is there any other way of saying “banned” that will inspire loyalty if you can’t be appealed to on the grounds of avoiding feeble scholarship? This syncretic “quest” will not bring “global Christianity” but the Great Apostasy. I expect you to stop promoting banned books, especially on Catholic Answers Forums. May we all be moved to humble, loving obedience to God, and may He keep us “faithful and true.” And I pray for an end to tenure. AMEN
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StAnastasia
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The nature of your attack – upon a renowned scholar whom you’ve never met whose book you refuse to read – suggests to me that deep acquaintance with higher education is foreign to you.
Sister Elizabeth Johnson’s Quest for the Living God is an excellent theological work, which I – and many other scholars I know – will continue to assign to appropriate theology classes in our Catholic universities and colleges, in addition, of course, to other books. (You’ve got your facts wrong: the Committee on Doctrine did not ban Dr. Johnson’s book.) At the recent conference of the Catholic Theological Society of America, she received tremendous support from those of us who are her colleagues in the theological enterprise.
StAnastasia
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nordskoven
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Which logic error is it? I have “attacked” an esteemed scholar…APPEAL TO AUTHORITY…who has been dissed by the Bishops…APPEAL TO FALSE AUTHORITY? I haven’t met her and I haven’t read her book. That makes repeated AD HOMINEM attacks magically turn into logical arguments, metaphorically at least. Listen, if all your friends were jumping off the roof, would that make it right? “Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.” Standing fast. I’m not too worried about Sister Johnson. She didn’t have recourse to the mob, she (belatedly) had recourse to the Bishops, who urge dialogue to get that Imprimatur. “Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort our hearts and establish in us every good word and work.”
The Bishops characterized this book as aimed at “non-specialist readers” and said it is also being used as a theology textbook. Are universities that dumbed-down that pop theology takes the place of dynamic scholarship? “Quest for the Living God does not accord with Catholic teaching on essential points.” Syncretism is an ear-tickling fantasy, the ultimate in religious enabling that says all roads lead to the garden. The Bishops say Sr. Elizabeth is leading seekers down the garden path and that Christ is The Way, The Truth, The Life. Locked in, locked out. This is a soul-threatening scotoma: focusing on getting right with everybody but Christ. Because the Bishops said this quest is not Catholic, and this book by Elizabeth Johnson is but a blind guide. Buy union grapes. PAX CHRISTI
The Bishops characterized this book as aimed at “non-specialist readers” and said it is also being used as a theology textbook. Are universities that dumbed-down that pop theology takes the place of dynamic scholarship? “Quest for the Living God does not accord with Catholic teaching on essential points.” Syncretism is an ear-tickling fantasy, the ultimate in religious enabling that says all roads lead to the garden. The Bishops say Sr. Elizabeth is leading seekers down the garden path and that Christ is The Way, The Truth, The Life. Locked in, locked out. This is a soul-threatening scotoma: focusing on getting right with everybody but Christ. Because the Bishops said this quest is not Catholic, and this book by Elizabeth Johnson is but a blind guide. Buy union grapes. PAX CHRISTI
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StAnastasia
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Silly. This *is *dynamic scholarship. That’s why so many of us employ the book in our classes!
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grannymh
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It is understandable why the Bishops’ Statement would upset many theologians who share Sister Johnson’s system of theology. And as you stated in post 56, you and many other scholars you know will continue to assign her book to appropriate theology classes. Therefore, it is imperative that the Bishops be listened to.
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grannymh
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Apparently this challenge has become one of your favorites. And I thought I was the only one so honored.
The most important learning in life was the truth I learned in grade school. We are created to know, love, and serve God so that we can be happy with Him in heaven.
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