Modesty in Dress

[Mike_O]

I came across the link: drbo.org/dnl/TWSG_read.pdf

What is the thought of other posters on what is said here? Certainly modesty in dress, or lack thereof, is a big problem, but the standards outlined there in some cases seem almost impossible to fulfill. I see almost no one wearing gowns or dresses anymore in normal daily activity. And the part about Christian men is also striking; one part refers to walking about in sportswear or shirtless as resembling the attire of savages. But if it is 95 degree outside and one goes for a long distance run, is it truly sinful to NOT wear long pants and a shirt below the elbows?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Mike O:

I came across the link: drbo.org/dnl/TWSG_read.pdf

What is the thought of other posters on what is said here? Certainly modesty in dress, or lack thereof, is a big problem, but the standards outlined there in some cases seem almost impossible to fulfill. I see almost no one wearing gowns or dresses anymore in normal daily activity. And the part about Christian men is also striking; one part refers to walking about in sportswear or shirtless as resembling the attire of savages. But if it is 95 degree outside and one goes for a long distance run, is it truly sinful to NOT wear long pants and a shirt below the elbows?

Marian Therese Horvat, quoted in the article, is a dissident radical traditionalist. That said, modesty is important. I don’t know about what one should wear when long distance running, I’ve never done it.

 

[GoLatin]

JKirkLVNV:

Marian Therese Horvat, quoted in the article, is a dissident radical traditionalist. That said, modesty is important. I don’t know about what one should wear when long distance running, I’ve never done it.

I know a Priest who does long distance running. I have never seen him in runnning clothes, but in the summer I believe that he wears shorts and a T-shirt to run. I guess that in the winter he wears a long-sleeved shirt and long pants.

This particular Priest wears a cassock on a daily basis.

 

[Dorothy]

Mike O:

I came across the link: drbo.org/dnl/TWSG_read.pdf

What is the thought of other posters on what is said here? Certainly modesty in dress, or lack thereof, is a big problem, but the standards outlined there in some cases seem almost impossible to fulfill. I see almost no one wearing gowns or dresses anymore in normal daily activity. And the part about Christian men is also striking; one part refers to walking about in sportswear or shirtless as resembling the attire of savages. But if it is 95 degree outside and one goes for a long distance run, is it truly sinful to NOT wear long pants and a shirt below the elbows?

It certainly is not sinful to NOT wear long pants and a shirt below the elbows on a long distance run in the heat. To think that it is sinful would be scrupulous and imprudent.

 

[levi86]

Ultimately it is the responsibility of men to hold back any impure thoughts they have about women. In a perfect world women could wear what ever they want. However we don’t live in a perfect world, most healthy men will have these thoughts pop into their minds, after all were still human and as we know these thoughts can lead us into sin.

So yes, if possible women should keep themselves modest, even if it is just out of courtesy for us men.

 

[GoLatin]

I personally try to observe the rule of wearing a long skirt and to wear tops with high necklines, and that cover my elbows.

I need to try and get some more tops that aren’t hot in the summer, but yet have high necklines and cover my elbows.

 

[Mike_O]

Is Horvat the woman who posted the photograph of Pope John Paul II hiking and then sharply criticized him for being seen without his clericals? There was some woman who did this and Mr. Keating noted her in his E-Letter, but I can’t remember if it was her. I think this is a legitimate question but some of the measures in that article are far too arbitrary. Clothing “two fingers’ breadth below the pit of the neck”? Why not 3 fingers’ breadth or 1 fingers’ breadth? The rules seem to exceed reason in their strictness. The real cause for concern should be at Mass where modesty in dress is often abused, especially in summer.

 

[otm]

I am reminded of the quote of a Supreme Court judge, who said that he could not articulate what pornography was, but he certainly knew it when he saw it.

This is an area that is frought with dangers on both ends; to little care for modesty, or too few rules and things become immodest; too many rules, or too much strictness, and one ends up in scrupulosity.

It is a bit like the issue of bare arms; I see a number of women who would not bare their arms, but have yet to meet a guy who gets “turned on” by a bare arm. Seems a bit of over reaction to a non-issue.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

levi86:

Ultimately it is the responsibility of men to hold back any impure thoughts they have about women. In a perfect world women could wear what ever they want. However we don’t live in a perfect world, most healthy men will have these thoughts pop into their minds, after all were still human and as we know these thoughts can lead us into sin.

So yes, if possible women should keep themselves modest, even if it is just out of courtesy for us men.

I want to be clear, when I said modesty was important, I meant for men and women. Men should not present themselves shirtless before any woman, unless it’s their wives and mothers.

 

[levi86]

JKirkLVNV:

I want to be clear, when I said modesty was important, I meant for men and women. Men should not present themselves shirtless before any woman, unless it’s their wives and mothers.

I 100% agree with you men should most defiantly show women the same respect, sorry if I didn’t mention it.

God bless
Levi

 

[CSN]

otm:

I am reminded of the quote of a Supreme Court judge, who said that he could not articulate what pornography was, but he certainly knew it when he saw it.

This is an area that is frought with dangers on both ends; to little care for modesty, or too few rules and things become immodest; too many rules, or too much strictness, and one ends up in scrupulosity.

It is a bit like the issue of bare arms; I see a number of women who would not bare their arms, but have yet to meet a guy who gets “turned on” by a bare arm. Seems a bit of over reaction to a non-issue.

Doesn’t the U.S. Constitution uphold the right to bare arms?

 

[Ana]

GoLatin:

I personally try to observe the rule of wearing a long skirt and to wear tops with high necklines, and that cover my elbows.

I need to try and get some more tops that aren’t hot in the summer, but yet have high necklines and cover my elbows.

I’ll have to warn my daughter of the erotic effect of “elbows” on men.

 

[thistle]

I’m not clear if this thread is about dressing modestly when attending church or anytime.
If anytime then from some of the posts it would mean that on a beach you would have to be clothed from head to foot. That wouldn’t make sense.

 

[Ham1]

GoLatin:

I personally try to observe the rule of wearing a long skirt and to wear tops with high necklines, and that cover my elbows.

I need to try and get some more tops that aren’t hot in the summer, but yet have high necklines and cover my elbows.

I understand the neckline thing but what’s up with covering the elbows? Do you really feel that it is immodest for you to wear a regular short sleeved blouse? If you do, it’s certainly ok as it is up to your personal taste, but I’ve just never heard of covering the elbows before.

 

[Fidelis]

levi86:

Ultimately it is the responsibility of men to hold back any impure thoughts they have about women. In a perfect world women could wear what ever they want. However we don’t live in a perfect world, most healthy men will have these thoughts pop into their minds, after all were still human and as we know these thoughts can lead us into sin.
**
So yes, if possible women should keep themselves modest, even if it is just out of courtesy for us men.**

I would carry this further and say, just as we men surely have a responsibility to control the direction of our thoughts, women also have a responsibility to dress modestly as to not become an occasion of sin. And no, I don’t advocate burkas, but not to be – literally – exposed to skin-tight outfits, prominent cleavage, butt-cracks (tattooed or un-tattooed), and bright pink thongs at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass would be a helpful start.

 

[trumpet152]

Fidelis:

I would carry this further and say, just as we men surely have a responsibility to control the direction of our thoughts, women also have a responsibility to dress modestly as to not become an occasion of sin. And no, I don’t advocate burkas, but not to be – literally – exposed to skin-tight outfits, prominent cleavage, butt-cracks (tattooed or un-tattooed), and bright pink thongs at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass would be a helpful start.

Agreed. Personally, I don’t think that women truly comprehend just how much guys think about sex. ALL THE TIME. This is not a bad thing (how often does Christ think about his Church?), but it does make it difficult to be pure in our thoughts. Proverbs describes the dress of a harlot, and some modern items of clothing make her look like a saint. I don’t agree with the article posted above, but I do think that Christian women should dress modestly.

 

[GoLatin]

otm:

I am reminded of the quote of a Supreme Court judge, who said that he could not articulate what pornography was, but he certainly knew it when he saw it.QUOTE]

That Supreme Court Justice was Potter “You know it when you see it” Stewart.

 

[JMJ_Theresa]

I asked my husband why sleeveless shirts were immodest. I was surprised by his answer. He said that the more skin that showed was a turn on. Of course, tight clothing would fall under this category.

I had a friend in high school originally from Pakistan who wasn’t allowed to wear dresses because her family found that immodest. So, modesty standards are somewhat cultural.

I think women look much more feminine in dresses. I wear my jeans for house and yard work, but I’m trying to throw on a skirt for going out. I also think there is a lot of gender confusion out there in the world, so maybe we need to use our dress to emphasize our gender differences.

As my 11 year old daughter is developing a figure, I find myself feeling more strongly about modesty. It bothers me to think that some guys out there might be ogling her.

On a vain note, I’ve noticed that most women look better in dresses and skirts. It hides a lot of flaws.

 

[Consecrated]

otm:

I am reminded of the quote of a Supreme Court judge, who said that he could not articulate what pornography was, but he certainly knew it when he saw it.

This is an area that is frought with dangers on both ends; to little care for modesty, or too few rules and things become immodest; too many rules, or too much strictness, and one ends up in scrupulosity.

It is a bit like the issue of bare arms; I see a number of women who would not bare their arms, but have yet to meet a guy who gets “turned on” by a bare arm. Seems a bit of over reaction to a non-issue.

Actually, I think right now in our culture there’s a MUCH more prominent danger of erring on the side of immodesty than on the side of scrupulosity.

As for the question of the modesty of baring arms, I have to say that clothing even to the elbows makes things much more modest… what about lifting up your arm in a quarter sleeve blouse and unintentionally revealing the underarm and bra? Also, a boyfriend/fiance may safely put his arm around his beloved without touching skin if she is wearing a longer sleeve. I remember very well how intense skin to skin contact is (even when it’s just hand on arm) when you’re desperately in love and not quite married yet!

levi86:

Ultimately it is the responsibility of men to hold back any impure thoughts they have about women. In a perfect world women could wear what ever they want. However we don’t live in a perfect world, most healthy men will have these thoughts pop into their minds, after all were still human and as we know these thoughts can lead us into sin.

Something to think about: if we lived in a “perfect world” (i.e. unfallen) we could and probably would all be naked! So, the point is we DON’T. Men should guard their thoughts, and women should have the common decency to help 'em out by seeking to guard their sacred spots rather than showcase them. :yup:

I think the article in the OP was right on. And I don’t think the standards are as hard to keep to as some would say. So it takes some courage and creativity. Learn to sew.

(Please know I’m talking to myself here, too… I’ve being working up the determination to go “all-skirt” myself for a while… )

 

[Consecrated]

JKirkLVNV:

Marian Therese Horvat, quoted in the article, is a dissident radical traditionalist. That said, modesty is important. I don’t know about what one should wear when long distance running, I’ve never done it.

I don’t want to hijack the thread, but Dr. Horvat may be “traditionalist” (not such a bad thing), and she may even be “radical”, but I hope that by also naming her “dissident”, the suggestion is not that she does not regard Pope Benedict XI as the true successor of Peter. If this is indeed the intended implication, it is a spurious accusation and one that should not be lightly made. I say all this b/c I do not want someone to toss away her words about modesty b/c someone else has labelled her dissident.

Besides, it is rather funny that one person could be called “traditionalist” and “dissident” in the same sentence. There were never two more fundamentally opposed terms. :whacky: