Modesty in Sermons

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Modesty is more than clothes, so actually there are plenty of Scripture passages which could form the basis for a homily.

For example, look at Isaiah 6:5 who worries that he has ‘unclean lips’ and is unfit to preach the word of the Lord.

And St Paul’s letters are FULL of references to modesty: 2Corinthians 10:1, Galatians 5:23, Colossians 3:12, Philipians 4:5, 1Timothy 2:9, 1 Peter 3:16, etc.

It would indeed to nice to hear. As I said, it’s more than women, and it’s more than clothes. It is an entire attitude, an attitude that fosters proper humility, and a proper focus and reverence for God. We could all learn from examples: Modesty means not boasting about our prowess in everything from sports to academics to personal beauty, popularity, etc. It means thinking of others and caring for them. It means being aware of the interplay of our souls and our bodies, and how we can offer the truly ‘best part’ of us to God above all, but also to our friends and family and all those we come in contact with.

But we are a church of “nice’ now, and nice means that we accept that anything anybody wants to do is a matter 'between him and God” and that being a ‘real Christian’ means that you shut your eyes, ears, mouth (and mind) lest you ‘offend’ another, because after all, it’s only your ‘opinion’ regarding ‘values’ or ‘ideals’ that nobody could ‘possibly’ live up to, and you’re a nasty bigot for focusing in a ‘negative’ way. Just keep the rainbows and the pasted on smiles and the welcoming ‘act’ because what matters is warm bodies in the pews doing whatever they choose and thinking whatever they like. “It’s all good” :rolleyes:
 
Homilies that scold never go over well, no matter how pure the intent.
 
pianistclare said:
Homilies that scold never go over well, no matter how pure the intent.
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I don’t think telling the truth is scolding! But on the other hand maybe a good scolding will help. It doesn’t do anyone any good to let them wallow in their sins. I think most people know its wrong and just don’t care! Like so many other things we make excuses for. God Bless, Memaw
 
I can’t imagine it would be too helpful to the individual who may become aware they are immodest in dress and feel awful about it or even maybe offended. I would imagine this is why they don’t talk about it too much.

Its a bit more than just political correctness, but just imagine you are the new parishioner (or someone interested in becoming a Catholic) who doesn’t realize they are wearing something wrong but is singled out by the pastor (not by fingers pointing but by what the priest may say about it)… It could hurt someone guilty but innocent and embarrass them in a very needless way. I very much imagine this is why its not addressed in sermons. It may end up driving someone away rather than helping. We shouldn’t do that, plus its not about what someone is wearing. Sinners come in all sorts of clothing.

Yes, I do realize that it is a topic that somehow should be addressed. Several churches I went to had a little blurb that was kind and helpful written in the weekly bulletin every week just to inform. Of course, it might go unread or unheeded, but this way, hopefully, people will see it, but ultimately, its very likely people have various ideas of what is modest or not- seeing how its hotly debated here. One can always pray for that person.

Speaking from experience, young people may not even realize that they may be wearing something immodest. Honestly, it just happens, especially if that is the culture you live in. We ought to give leeway for that and just cope and consider it practice for development of virtue.

I would suggest to remedy the problem that adult classes in a small friendly community like atmosphere would be a good way of talking about this issue. Then again… maybe not!
 
pianistclare said:
Homilies that scold never go over well, no matter how pure the intent.
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Eh, sometimes they are needed. The Bible is full of examples.
Perhaps you mean they don’t go over well but are needed.
What is a father to do with his children?
 
Memaw said:
I don’t think telling the truth is scolding! But on the other hand maybe a good scolding will help. It doesn’t do anyone any good to let them wallow in their sins. I think most people know its wrong and just don’t care! Like so many other things we make excuses for. God Bless, Memaw
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In my experience. only time scolding helps anyone is when they are being deliberately obstanate and do not care or take in consideration what is being asked of them… even at that, I have come to the conclusion that it probably never really helps the situation much. It does help to have firmness of conviction with love though. I just don’t see scolding as helpful. It just serves to harden hearts more I think… from what I’ve seen (and done/experienced).

Did Jesus scold? Or did he just seem like He was scolding someone? (Real questions I’m pondering here) I think He did when divisions needed to be drawn, when others were hurting others by their sin, clearly- He called them out, but I don’t think that’s scolding. Other than that, I think He was very fair to most every one. Those who do not want to follow obviously didn’t… , or won’t change, scold or not. 😦
 
AnneElizabeth said:
In my experience. only time scolding helps anyone is when they are being deliberately obstanate and do not care or take in consideration what is being asked of them… even at that, I have come to the conclusion that it probably never really helps the situation much. It does help to have firmness of conviction with love though. I just don’t see scolding as helpful. It just serves to harden hearts more I think… from what I’ve seen (and done/experienced).

Did Jesus scold? Or did he just seem like He was scolding someone? (Real questions I’m pondering here) I think He did when divisions needed to be drawn, when others were hurting others by their sin, clearly- He called them out, but I don’t think that’s scolding. Other than that, I think He was very fair to most every one. Those who do not want to follow obviously didn’t… , or won’t change, scold or not. 😦
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Ok so modesty should be talked about. Immodesty should be called out. But not scolded?

That too semantical for me.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Modesty is more than clothes, so actually there are plenty of Scripture passages which could form the basis for a homily.

For example, look at Isaiah 6:5 who worries that he has ‘unclean lips’ and is unfit to preach the word of the Lord.

And St Paul’s letters are FULL of references to modesty: 2Corinthians 10:1, Galatians 5:23, Colossians 3:12, Philipians 4:5, 1Timothy 2:9, 1 Peter 3:16, etc.

It would indeed to nice to hear. As I said, it’s more than women, and it’s more than clothes. It is an entire attitude, an attitude that fosters proper humility, and a proper focus and reverence for God. We could all learn from examples: Modesty means not boasting about our prowess in everything from sports to academics to personal beauty, popularity, etc. It means thinking of others and caring for them. It means being aware of the interplay of our souls and our bodies, and how we can offer the truly ‘best part’ of us to God above all, but also to our friends and family and all those we come in contact with.

But we are a church of “nice’ now, and nice means that we accept that anything anybody wants to do is a matter 'between him and God” and that being a ‘real Christian’ means that you shut your eyes, ears, mouth (and mind) lest you ‘offend’ another, because after all, it’s only your ‘opinion’ regarding ‘values’ or ‘ideals’ that nobody could ‘possibly’ live up to, and you’re a nasty bigot for focusing in a ‘negative’ way. Just keep the rainbows and the pasted on smiles and the welcoming ‘act’ because what matters is warm bodies in the pews doing whatever they choose and thinking whatever they like. “It’s all good” :rolleyes:
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I agree with you here on most things, but when it comes to the last paragraph, I wonder… is it really that way, or does it just seem that way? Of course some take the faith as that way, but isn’t it just par for the course? I mean, we can see all sorts of faults collectively if we really look and all of us are on different levels of understanding- not that there are real measurable levels, but just a manner of speaking of sorts about it. It would be better if we put those assumptions away, I think? Just attend to people’s needs, despite their ignorance. If anyone does that, it can appear like shrugging responsibility off and saying "its all good’, but its not like people can’t be hurt, embarrassed, ashamed, saddened by others meaning well but executing the reproof in a poor way. Its here where prudence really has to be exercised well with caution… how, I can’t exactly say I’m still trying to learn. I’ve tried it the other way, and I’m not too proud of it as it may have hurt rather than accomplished much for The Lord’s sake. ⭕(
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Ok so modesty should be talked about. Immodesty should be called out. But not scolded?

That too semantical for me.
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I’m not sure where you saw that I said immodestly should be called out? I thought I said the opposite?

If I seem like I’m doubling back on myself, its because I’m trying to say its delicate and more of a matter of prudence for each opportunity. (this is what makes the narrow road difficult- you have to put the work into figuring out each thing that comes up along the way as it comes and pray about it and deal with it as it comes- there’s not an easy one size fits all solution sadly.) Each matter requires prudence to be handled effectively.

I will agree with you I seem to see-saw in my words/thoughts… but this is a weighing of the issue.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Eh, sometimes they are needed. The Bible is full of examples.
Perhaps you mean they don’t go over well but are needed.
What is a father to do with his children?
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Please cite those examples you speak of.

Let’s also define ‘scolding’ as opposed to discipline, or what have you.
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Please cite those examples you speak of.

Let’s also define ‘scolding’ as opposed to discipline, or what have you.
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Johna, Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul.
I think you need to clarify the difference between scolding and correction. Perhaps it would be helpful to think of a priest as a father ( that’s a noble idea!)
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
Around my parts, between the lack of young people at Mass, and the average age of those who do attend, modesty is the least of the parish’s problems.
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Yeah, but it is a problem! - The lack of the young! Its a huge problem.
 
AnneElizabeth said:
I’m not sure where you saw that I said immodestly should be called out? I thought I said the opposite?

If I seem like I’m doubling back on myself, its because I’m trying to say its delicate and more of a matter of prudence for each opportunity. (this is what makes the narrow road difficult- you have to put the work into figuring out each thing that comes up along the way as it comes and pray about it and deal with it as it comes- there’s not an easy one size fits all solution sadly.) Each matter requires prudence to be handled effectively.

I will agree with you I seem to see-saw in my words/thoughts… but this is a weighing of the issue.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen parishes in the Midwest where priests could speak of modesty in church and the parish would nod in unison. I’ve seen parishes in the west that would have used thongs and bra straps to whip him out of town…
So yes, the situation matters.
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
Around my parts, between the lack of young people at Mass, and the average age of those who do attend, modesty is the least of the parish’s problems.
Click to expand...
Now I have this image of a granny in a mini skirt 😃

In all seriousness though I imagine a sermon on what’s good about humility and modesty rather than what’s bad about pride and immodesty would work better.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Johna, Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul.
I think you need to clarify the difference between scolding and correction. Perhaps it would be helpful to think of a priest as a father ( that’s a noble idea!)
Click to expand...
You will have to be a little more precise with your cites there… That really doesn’t help as its very vague.

I asked you first.
 
dangerousdyls said:
Have you heard a sermon where modestly is specifically mentioned? Over my years, I cannot recall a sermon when the priest mentioned the importance of modesty. I wonder why that is
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The subject of modesty is tricky. I think most people think first about girls’ and women’s modesty and about boys’ and men’s modesty as an afterthought. Also, modesty is more than about not wearing clothing that is revealing; immodesty can mean being boastful or haughty and sometimes those people would be the ones giving the side-eye to the woman with unintentional cleavage or the man who came to Mass right from work who is still in his work clothes. One only has to sit through a talk on some moral issue, usually in a non-church setting, and hear the gasps and clucking to realize a lot of people aren’t checking in with themselves but are looking for the sins and failings of others.

No priest wants to be the one who t gives a homily about dressing modestly and appropriately for Mass and have it look like he singled out someone.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
The subject of modesty is tricky. I think most people think first about girls’ and women’s modesty and about boys’ and men’s modesty as an afterthought. Also, modesty is more than about not wearing clothing that is revealing; immodesty can mean being boastful or haughty and sometimes those people would be the ones giving the side-eye to the woman with unintentional cleavage or the man who came to Mass right from work who is still in his work clothes. One only has to sit through a talk on some moral issue, usually in a non-church setting, and hear the gasps and clucking to realize a lot of people aren’t checking in with themselves but are looking for the sins and failings of others.

No priest wants to be the one who t gives a homily about dressing modestly and appropriately for Mass and have it look like he singled out someone.
Click to expand...
Yeah it’s tricky. Sometimes scolding is very effective. In fact some catholic priests have some pretty harsh sermons that FILL speaking circuits, conferences, parishes…
But it isn’t for everyone. For some reason men seem to take scolding better… generally.
The “followings” of some of the scolding preachers are male oriented. However mother Angelica would fit into the fiery preaching on modesty category so you never know.

I get it though. Two months ago we were screamed at by a priest for 20 minutes about how we could have ever elected trump. Haven’t been back since.
 
Why don’t they preach, for that matter, about planks and specks in eyes; and not becoming fixated on the visible percentage of others’ skin?

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
Why don’t they preach, for that matter, about planks and specks in eyes; and not becoming fixated on the visible percentage of others’ skin?
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Some do. We’ve been blessed with some wonderful priests who have done such.

I recall one stirring sermon about the Magi; who may equate to modern day new age occultists. How those of us sitting in that very Church may feel secure with God but that relative we have who may be a ‘confused spiritualist’ could be seeking God more authentically than us. As the Magi seeking God discerned to avoid Herod “King of Judea” and search for the Christ child. It may have been more than many of the chosen people did, at that time of Jesus’ birth. Many were not looking. It was a very powerful homily. The recollection still keeps me humble.
 
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