Modesty in Sermons

[EasterJoy]

What is indecent differs from opinion to opinion. What one thinks is too indecent, another can think is perfectly fine. I’ve never thought overly on dress. In the winter, I’m wearing my skinnyjeans and ballet flats to church, and I always wear long minidress tops because I think it’s pretty and flattering. In summer, I wear dresses, no nylons, and I feel perfectly comfortable bare-legged. My dresses are a decent length, so I don’t see an issue. I know some are squeamish over a woman not wearing nylons, but if she has pretty legs and her skirts/ dresses are a decent length, what’s the difference?

No, I’m talking about a very tall priest who thinks there are women who ought to know that the views of their necklines are different from over six feet than it is straight-on at 5 foot two. He says that, but there is no way he’s going to say that in a homily.

By the way, clothing does not become more modest because a woman has “pretty legs,” right? Modesty is not about choosing what is “flattering,” either. It is fine to abhor clothing that makes you look like a puppy lost in a tent, but modesty has nothing to do with choosing clothes that give people a good impression of your looks. I would go so far to say that if you wouldn’t wear the same fashion if your figure wasn’t worth “showing off,” you ought to ask yourself if vanity is a temptation. Vanity is a real thing, and not a good thing.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Is there no line for you? Is there a scenario where you would say"no that is not ok"?
Is the Vatican out of line with its requirements?
Are other faiths?

You have to consider the person. If someone has been, mentally ill for months and has finally made it to mass then turning up in pajamas could at that point in time could be the best they can do. Hopefully as they begin to recover supportive people could work on the clothing issue. It doesn’t mean everyone should be entitled to go to mass not dressed.

 

[Memaw]

Thinking about this it’s important to remember that churches are hospitals for sinners not museums of saints and I think its important that our churches are places where you can come as you are. Going to church in pajamas isn’t ideal but if a person was very depressed and struggling to get out of bed surely we would just be grateful they had made it to mass.

Just an excuse for “doing what we please” and not having respect for Our Lord .One needs to read the Sacred Scriptures and learn what Our Lord said about “doing our own thing”. I doubt that all those that dress improperly for Mass are suffering from a deep depression such as you described. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

No, I’m talking about a very tall priest who thinks there are women who ought to know that the views of their necklines are different from over six feet than it is straight-on at 5 foot two. He says that, but there is no way he’s going to say that in a homily.

By the way, clothing does not become more modest because a woman has “pretty legs,” right? Modesty is not about choosing what is “flattering,” either. It is fine to abhor clothing that makes you look like a puppy lost in a tent, but modesty has nothing to do with choosing clothes that give people a good impression of your looks. I would go so far to say that if you wouldn’t wear the same fashion if your figure wasn’t worth “showing off,” you ought to ask yourself if vanity is a temptation. Vanity is a real thing, and not a good thing.

AMEN!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Just an excuse for “doing what we please” and not having respect for Our Lord .One needs to read the Sacred Scriptures and learn what Our Lord said about “doing our own thing”. I doubt that all those that dress improperly for Mass are suffering from a deep depression such as you described. God Bless, Memaw

You aren’t required to be perfect before you can step foot in a church. People at mass are at all different stages of their faith journeys and for some coming dressed looking like something the cat dragged in could actually be the best they can do for now, God knows what’s in people’s hearts and knows whether they are doing it to be deliberately disrespectful or just out of ignorance or illness. With kindness and charity that improperly dressed person could learn how to be a more respectful Catholic, if all they get is judgement they probably won’t.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

You aren’t required to be perfect before you can step foot in a church. People at mass are at all different stages of their faith journeys and for some coming dressed looking like something the cat dragged in could actually be the best they can do for now, God knows what’s in people’s hearts and knows whether they are doing it to be deliberately disrespectful or just out of ignorance or illness. With kindness and charity that improperly dressed person could learn how to be a more respectful Catholic, if all they get is judgement they probably won’t.

Lucy, I understand what you’re saying, and I applaud your compassion. However, the fact of the matter is that for decades now, we have been taking the exception (really, how many of the hundreds and thousands of people who go to Mass on a given Sunday wearing ratty, immodest, inappropriate clothing based on the weather/norms of society/‘fashion’ etc are 'doing the best they can?) and using it to ‘justify’ inappropriate dress. We have done the same, in society, to virtually everything. Hey, it’s all relative, right? What is ‘right’ for you is not right for everybody, so you cannot ‘enforce’ it on all, lest you ‘hurt’ somebody. And of course, we cannot even ask now, as that is also hurtful. You dare not ask the people cussing a blue streak in front of your 4 year old to please consider the child; at most you’ll get a shrug and eye roll, at worst they’ll get directly in his face and escalate the bad language, often to the cheer and applause of bystanders who sneer at YOU for your ‘elitist’ attitude and your attempt to ‘stifle free speech.’

Don’t people SEE? Don’t they see how, without a ‘shot fired’, they have surrendered to the demands of the vulgar, the hateful, the entitled, the ‘barbarian’ element in society? Do they honestly think that this means that they in turn will be ‘allowed’ to practice their own beliefs in public, since they are ‘tolerant’ of others? Far from it. It has gone downhill so far, so fast (I’m 60, and I’ve seen it), that I doubt that anything short of a worldwide catastrophe/divine intervention can stop this.

I am all for tenderness and compassion, but the few who really need it have become the poster children for the many who do not, and who have used them to gain their own bizarre antics a ‘cultural recognition’ and indeed applause which they emphatically do not deserve.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

To be honest I’ve never seen anyone dressed noticeably inappropriate at mass even when at university. I don’t know if people dress up more in the US for church but in the UK jeans and a modest top seems to be the norm for younger women. I actually didn’t know about the shoulder rule until I went to Taize, never occurred to me to go out with bare shoulders on a cold UK morning but I certainly don’t think I would deserve to be shamed for making an honest mistake.

I think society has far bigger problems than peoples clothes.

 

[AClaire11]

What is indecent differs from opinion to opinion. What one thinks is too indecent, another can think is perfectly fine. I’ve never thought overly on dress. In the winter, I’m wearing my skinnyjeans and ballet flats to church, and I always wear long minidress tops because I think it’s pretty and flattering. In summer, I wear dresses, no nylons, and I feel perfectly comfortable bare-legged. My dresses are a decent length, so I don’t see an issue. I know some are squeamish over a woman not wearing nylons, but if she has pretty legs and her skirts/ dresses are a decent length, what’s the difference?

There are still people who clutch their pearls over women not wearing hosiery? Yikes.

patheos.com/blogs/steelmagnificat/2016/07/a-beautiful-and-sobering-anecdote/

We should uphold standards, but in a gentle and charitable manner.

 

[Sarcelle]

There are still people who clutch their pearls over women not wearing hosiery? Yikes.

patheos.com/blogs/steelmagnificat/2016/07/a-beautiful-and-sobering-anecdote/

We should uphold standards, but in a gentle and charitable manner.

My standard for good church attire is the same as for a job interview.

Will the outfit I am wearing be appropriate for a job interview?

I know there jobs where a more casual approach is okay but I am talking about a more formal and conservative job environment and not jobs at restaurants like Hooters.

 

[AClaire11]

My standard for good church attire is the same as for a job interview.

Will the outfit I am wearing be appropriate for a job interview?

I know there jobs where a more casual approach is okay but I am talking about a more formal and conservative job environment and not jobs at restaurants like Hooters.

I dress modestly and rather formally for church, but many of my outfits would not meet that standard. Most jobs I’ve worked at have required suits or the equivalent. Generally I prefer to wear dresses to church, and not the very plain ones one would wear to a business interview.

Of course, now that I’m nursing, I am limited to clothes that facilitate that, which does not include most formal dresses, so I wear more casual ones.

 

[punisherthunder]

Never once have I heard a sermon on modesty, ever.

In fact, I’ve seen some younger women approach Holy Communion with the shortest dresses you’ve ever seen. I mean, shockingly short. And their parents are right there in line with them and could care less.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Tomorrow I will wear jeans, boots and a jumper and probably keep my coat on as its not going to be much above freezing tomorrow.:winter:

 

[AClaire11]

Tomorrow I will wear jeans, boots and a jumper and probably keep my coat on as its not going to be much above freezing tomorrow.:winter:

I will wear sneakers since I have to walk 30 minutes to get there. And then I’ll change into my sad worn out ballet flats. No $$$ to buy new ones for a while.

 

[Memaw]

You aren’t required to be perfect before you can step foot in a church. People at mass are at all different stages of their faith journeys and for some coming dressed looking like something the cat dragged in could actually be the best they can do for now, God knows what’s in people’s hearts and knows whether they are doing it to be deliberately disrespectful or just out of ignorance or illness. With kindness and charity that improperly dressed person could learn how to be a more respectful Catholic, if all they get is judgement they probably won’t.

No one said one has to be “perfect” to enter a Church. BUT from what I see, those who do dress immodestly seem to have plenty of money to buy their stylish immodest duds!!! There is a big difference between someone who is truly poor and one who “follows” the latest immodest styles!! Even the Vatican has a strict dress code!!! Ignorance is the main reason we need our Priests to spend part of their Homily TEACHING us!!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Phemie]

To be honest I’ve never seen anyone dressed noticeably inappropriate at mass even when at university. I don’t know if people dress up more in the US for church but in the UK jeans and a modest top seems to be the norm for younger women. I actually didn’t know about the shoulder rule until I went to Taize, never occurred to me to go out with bare shoulders on a cold UK morning but I certainly don’t think I would deserve to be shamed for making an honest mistake.

I think society has far bigger problems than peoples clothes.

I live where it’s considerably colder – it’s -26C (-14F) this morning. There will still be women in low cut tops at Mass. In summer it’s shorts and tank tops. In all seasons you have readers and EMHCs in skin tight pants that leave little to the imagination.

But in the spirit of full disclosure I have to admit that as a young person in the 60s and 70s I wore my share of ridiculously short skirts and dresses to Mass. It was the style and there was nowhere for me to get the “Little House on the Prairie” clothing that I would have preferred. Once I was buying my own clothes the hemlines came down.

 

[Memaw]

I live where it’s considerably colder – it’s -26C (-14F) this morning. There will still be women in low cut tops at Mass. In summer it’s shorts and tank tops. In all seasons you have readers and EMHCs in skin tight pants that leave little to the imagination.

But in the spirit of full disclosure I have to admit that as a young person in the 60s and 70s I wore my share of ridiculously short skirts and dresses to Mass. It was the style and there was nowhere for me to get the “Little House on the Prairie” clothing that I would have preferred. Once I was buying my own clothes the hemlines came down.

Funny but I was young during the 60’s and 70’s and I never had any trouble finding modest clothes. When the mini skirts came out I started wearing pant-suits. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Phemie]

Funny but I was young during the 60’s and 70’s and I never had any trouble finding modest clothes. When the mini skirts came out I started wearing pant-suits. God Bless, Memaw

I wore what was bought or made for me. Once I started buying my own clothes, as I said, the hemlines came down.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I wore what was bought or made for me. Once I started buying my own clothes, as I said, the hemlines came down.

You horrible, sinful thirteen-year-old, not having the purchasing power to get your own clothes!

/sarcasm, obviously

 

[Phemie]

You horrible, sinful thirteen-year-old, not having the purchasing power to get your own clothes!

/sarcasm, obviously

Even as a young adult in a small town, being 4’10" and 85 lbs relegated my clothes shopping to the children’s department. It wasn’t until I got to a city where stores carried adult clothing in smaller sizes that I was able to find appropriate clothes to fit me.

 

[EasterJoy]

You aren’t required to be perfect before you can step foot in a church. People at mass are at all different stages of their faith journeys and for some coming dressed looking like something the cat dragged in could actually be the best they can do for now, God knows what’s in people’s hearts and knows whether they are doing it to be deliberately disrespectful or just out of ignorance or illness. With kindness and charity that improperly dressed person could learn how to be a more respectful Catholic, if all they get is judgement they probably won’t.

It does not hurt to point out in a sermon against vanity or impurity in dress that there is hardly a vanity worse than presuming to correct or sit in judgement of those not under your jurisdiction.

That does not mean the homilist is not going to ask his listeners if they are not giving themselves a pass on whether they are “doing their best.” If they would pull themselves together better for a workday, but give themselves a pass on a Sunday, are they “doing their best”? If they’re saying defensively that only God can judge them, have they stopped to consider that* they* are supposed to be subjecting themselves to examination, too? Do they, for that matter, ever ask for suggestions or correction from anyone who maybe, just maybe, might see their faults more clearly rather than less clearly than they do? The willingness to seek correction, after all, is also part of humility and modesty.