Modesty

[aball1035]

Can anybody give me a basic ‘dress code’ for both Catholic men and women?

In addition, I have a little bit of an issue on my hands. My girlfriend is more or less a modest dresser (for this day and age). Nothing too bad, but nothing that Mary would wear, either. I would love to tell her “wow, you look great today!”, even if she does, but I don’t want to encourage (what might be) an immodest piece of hers. Instead I say something dull like “I love the color of your shirt!” etc.

Am I too strict? I always encourage her to be modest and try to be modest myself. Any help?

 

[Trishie]

Alex, if you’re close enough friends, could you courteously mention your preferences as a Catholic guy, without her feeling pressured, but with simple quiet honesty?

 

[kage_ar]

The only dress code is to be modest. What defined modest changes in time and place and culture.

Pray for her.

 

[Catholic_89]

Hello,
Don’t worry. You are not the only one going through the same thing. I better watch what I say because my girlfriend is on this forum too! Anyways, I usually tell her if I think a shirt is too low. You see sometimes they don’t realize it is like that, I guess because you can’t see all angles in a mirror. If you are close to her, you should be able to mention it nicely. I think girls do this for two reasons (women correct me if I’m wrong). One, they want to feel attractive and two, I don’t think they really understand what effect it has on men. I mean, they are not men, so they could not know how it affects us.
Perhaps explaining to her that her wearing modest clothing is more beautiful to you than other clothing because it shows you how much she cares about modesty. To me that is more attractive then some of this very provocative clothing out there. Otherwise, she is her own person, and you can’t control that, so let her wear what she likes, and perhaps she will change it if she feels it needs to be more modest. Be careful though; for some reason this issue is a touchy subject with ladies:shrug: .
Hope that helps. God bless

 

[emily789]

a modest dress code for girls to me would be basically anything that isn’t too revealing. by this i mean clothes that aren’t too tight, low-cut, or see through.

 

[emily789]

and no, you are not being too strict. dressing modestly does mean a girl has to dress like her grandmother…there are plenty of options for us girls out there. if you want to encourage her to dress a certain way, just compliment her on her outfit only when she dresses modestly…she will definitely remember which outfits she received your compliments on, and will wear them more often as long as you make a point of being sincere when giving the compliment.

 

[chevalier]

and no, you are not being too strict. dressing modestly does mean a girl has to dress like her grandmother…there are plenty of options for us girls out there. if you want to encourage her to dress a certain way, just compliment her on her outfit only when she dresses modestly…she will definitely remember which outfits she received your compliments on, and will wear them more often as long as you make a point of being sincere when giving the compliment.

Well, I could see myself saying, “Wow, you look great. But X could be taken the wrong way.” Or, “Wow, you look great. But this could get you the wrong sort of attention, if you know what I’m talking about.” Or, “Wow, you look great. But it’s going to be hard on anyone to concentrate / focus his attention on work.” But the result is very likely that the woman will feel bad, in the sense of admonished, or someone turning attention to a problem with modesty, which won’t damage a family relationship or a friendship, but may damage the relationship with someone who is supposed to be attracted to her.

So it’s probably better to do as Emily said unless you can be sure that pointing things out can be safe. However, if there is an extreme case, it’s better to ask her to fix it than to harbour resentment to her. You don’t want a hidden resentment against your girlfriend, especially if you want to marry her in the future.

 

[noclevername]

Can anybody give me a basic ‘dress code’ for both Catholic men and women?

In addition, I have a little bit of an issue on my hands. My girlfriend is more or less a modest dresser (for this day and age). Nothing too bad, but nothing that Mary would wear, either. I would love to tell her “wow, you look great today!”, even if she does, but I don’t want to encourage (what might be) an immodest piece of hers. Instead I say something dull like “I love the color of your shirt!” etc.

Am I too strict? I always encourage her to be modest and try to be modest myself. Any help?

The part I put in bold kind of bothers me. How controlling are you. I had a boyfriend when I was a teen who didn’t want me to be a lifeguard because I would be in my bathing suit all day. It was a very modest, almost ugly speedo type suit too. Wanna know what I did? I dumped him so fast. That was just an insight to what he would be like in the future I refused to put up with someone controlling like that.

So maybe you need to step back and take a look at yourself.

 

[OSUbride0708]

The part I put in bold kind of bothers me. How controlling are you. I had a boyfriend when I was a teen who didn’t want me to be a lifeguard because I would be in my bathing suit all day. It was a very modest, almost ugly speedo type suit too. Wanna know what I did? I dumped him so fast. That was just an insight to what he would be like in the future I refused to put up with someone controlling like that.

So maybe you need to step back and take a look at yourself.

I started thinking like this as well after reading the OP. I know some girls who have had boyfriends who control what they wear so that they won’t look attractive to other men. There’s a fine line between wanting and promoting modesty for your loved one and controlling her wardrobe.

 

[noclevername]

I started thinking like this as well after reading the OP. I know some girls who have had boyfriends who control what they wear so that they won’t look attractive to other men. There’s a fine line between wanting and promoting modesty for your loved one and controlling her wardrobe.

Yes, that is my point exactly. You just put it better than I did. Thanks.

 

[chevalier]

Ladies, I do agree with much of what you say, but in my view, some points need revisiting.

Firstly, the “love it or leave it argument” works for either party or for none. Obviously, if two young people are in love with each other, neither wants to leave. So, as you say, there is a fine line between promoting modesty and controlling the wardrobe. However, this doesn’t mean that the young lady should basically be left alone and the young man should basically suck it up.

Secondly, to ascribe some controlling motivations to the opening poster is conjecture. It would be equivalent to saying that the young lady, his girlfriend, wants to look sexy, by a male poster. Conjecture is conjecture.

Now I need to deal with the argument that some men don’t want their women to look attractive to other men and for this reason limit their wardrobe. While I don’t deny that this may happen, we must realise first that modesty and lack of attractiveness are not the same thing and that one can look attractive while being modest. Modesty itself may be attractive (it is to me, for instance). While there might well be an urge of this kind in the Opening Poster’s attitude, the difference between the various kinds of looking attractive is important. For example, I would have no problem with a hypothetical girlfriend or wife of mine dressing up and wearing make-up and what is the purpose of this, if not looking more attractive than without it? However, I would have a problem if my hypothetical chosen lady saw it fit to wear somewhat revealing, sheer or particularly clingy clothes around men. A girlfriend is not a wife and she is single in the most basic sense, but a relationship entails a certain promise from which comes a right to expect that one won’t be seeking a specific kind of interest or appreciation from other men or other women. This is different from a concern for modesty, indeed, but it is not illegitimate. Since I used myself as an example for lack of other, you may of course respond freely without holding back.

At this point, it’s conjecture, but I take it that the Opening Poster decided to post because something is worrying him. If it were a trivial matter, he most likely wouldn’t care. If this is indeed a trivial matter but he still cares, well, his feelings need a bit of ease. And yes, I would suggest perhaps changing the focus a little and worrying maybe less about whether the girl (your girlfriend, Aball) commits this or that act of immodesty, especially in a slight degree, but rather focus on helping her grow spiritually. Therefore gently pointing her attention to the fact that some clothes could bring her the wrong kind of attention would be good, if done in charity and good faith (but be prepared to receive a similar kind of advice from her in humility), as would be bringing up the fact that he, the Opening Poster (i.e. you, Aball), feels a bit uncomfortable and perhaps insecure. It can be brought up in a loving way.

I would finally warn against letting it develop into a “who has a more modest girlfriend” kind of contest because modesty truly doesn’t rely on burkhas and the dress code is not the same as it was in 1th century Palestine.

 

[GraceDK]

Can anybody give me a basic ‘dress code’ for both Catholic men and women?

In addition, I have a little bit of an issue on my hands. My girlfriend is more or less a modest dresser (for this day and age). Nothing too bad, but nothing that Mary would wear, either. I would love to tell her “wow, you look great today!”, even if she does, but I don’t want to encourage (what might be) an immodest piece of hers. Instead I say something dull like “I love the color of your shirt!” etc.

Am I too strict? I always encourage her to be modest and try to be modest myself. Any help?

You sound like you dont really have a problem, yet feel you need to find one… why is that?

 

[GraceDK]

Catholic_89
Hello,
Don’t worry. You are not the only one going through the same thing. I better watch what I say because my girlfriend is on this forum too! Anyways, I usually tell her if I think a shirt is too low.

Too low, what do you mean too low? Too low for what, or rather whom or where and says who?

** You see sometimes they don’t realize it is like that**,

Who are “they”? and its like what exactly?

** I guess because you can’t see all angles in a mirror. If you are close to her, you should be able to mention it nicely. **

Mention what? The OP has not actually mentioned any specific problem. He said his GF is not dressed like the Virgin Mary. But he is probably not dressed like St. Joseph and why is that a problem?

I think girls do this for two reasons (women correct me if I’m wrong). One, they want to feel attractive and two, I don’t think they really understand what effect it has on men. I mean, they are not men, so they could not know how it affects us.

Or maybe they just feel good-looking and enjoy wearing this clothes because they think its cute. Why do you think it has to do with being attractive to the opposite sex necessarily? I think some guys think girls think about guys all of the time… which is in some ways true for some girls sometimes but not in the ways you think.
A girl might have a crush on someone and she will think of her clothes as pretty… not as “sexy”.

 ** Perhaps explaining to her that her wearing modest clothing is more beautiful to you than other clothing because it shows you how much she cares about modesty.**

Should you be chaste because you like chastity or refrain from stealing because you like honesty. Than seems a bit “thin”. How about doing what we do out of celebration of life and out of love. I am not living in chastity because I care about chastity but because I care about people and I see a real hurt inflicted on me and others if I dont live according to chastity.

To me that is more attractive then some of this very provocative clothing out there. Otherwise, she is her own person, and you can’t control that, so let her wear what she likes, and perhaps she will change it if she feels it needs to be more modest. Be careful though; for some reason this issue is a touchy subject with ladies:shrug:

Yes it is, touchy. I’ll tell you why my brother… Because we sometimes feel that there is a hidden agenda behind the urge for “MODESY MODESTY MODESTY, LADIES!” its about a history of supression of women sexuality, a continuous struggle in many countries even for basic rights for women and the clear experience that wherever women get subdued in their attire men dont stop lusting but only blame the women more and more and ask them to cover more and more. This is a historical fact that can be observed. Go to the middle east. Is a neck sexually arousing? It might be if you live in Yemen for a few years.
Modesty is mainly a virtue called “self-control directed by love for people” and this is a virtue of the heart.
The other question that is the everlasting question here is: what is modesty… thus far there are as many oppinions as the stars… there is a great grey area dictated only by personal taste that many a person tries to make into guidelines for all of humanity.

And yes, I am all for wearing nice feminine clothes without any intention of arousing lust in the opposite sex. I can say I have never once bought a piece of clothes with the intention of seduction. Have you?
.
Peace.
Grace

 

[Emily2009]

Catholic_89, I think you’re fine.

My boyfriend tells me if something I wear is…not as modest as it could be. I do not take offense-I’d rather not cause him any unnecessary problems.

I am rather modest in dress…I prefer sweatpants/sweatshirts, etc, and am more comfortable that way…

But, honestly, if you two have been dating awhile, if you guys talk a lot, I’d tell her. You can tell her she looks good, but she will remember what you think she looks good in.

My boyfriend tells me I look even better in sweats than completely dressed up? He’s weird, oh well

It’s okay…

But, if she’s going to get upset, and it’s not causing any problems for you, it’s probably not worth your time… just make sure you never comment about how ‘hott’ some scantily clad model, or girl in the mall, etc, is if you don’t want her to dress that way too…

 

[Ruthie]

Positive reinforcement works much better than lectures!

When she’s dressed modestly, say “You look beautiful. I’m proud to be seen with you!”

As for a dress code, nah. If DH asked me to keep to a dress code, I’d find that overly controlling, and insulting, too.

My 2 cents,

Ruthie

 

[chevalier]

Grace, some women don’t get the difference between protecting men and merely not actively tempting them. and forget that sexuality is about action (which is lawful in only one type of relationship), not about expression. I wish the glorified underwear and mega-cleavage would finally get out of fashion together with the TMI feeling they create in business, education and social contexts.

 

[Galnextdoor]

Positive reinforcement works much better than lectures!

When she’s dressed modestly, say “You look beautiful. I’m proud to be seen with you!”

As for a dress code, nah. If DH asked me to keep to a dress code, I’d find that overly controlling, and insulting, too.

My 2 cents,

Ruthie

I totally agree with you, Ruthie. To the OP, if she’s has feelings for you, she will pick up on the subtle preferences and choose more garments that you will feel comfortable with her wearing.

 

[GraceDK]

Grace, some women don’t get the difference between protecting men and merely not actively tempting them. and forget that sexuality is about action (which is lawful in only one type of relationship), not about expression. I wish the glorified underwear and mega-cleavage would finally get out of fashion together with the TMI feeling they create in business, education and social contexts.

Chevalier…
Unfortunatey the young men who were active on this thread have decided not to answer me.
I do not understand your point.
To me it seems like to many North American Catholic men oversexualise the intentions of women in their surroundings… as an intention namely which you know in its nature is reflected, an evil plan to produce lust.
That is the error.
We are repeatedly asked to understand you men.
Then understand us in return. I do not like when women are generelised into a category of cheep or lustful people who are out to lead men to fall… When in fact women think differently. We dont think ‘sex’ when we choose outfits. We think: is this nice, is it pretty, is it fashionable. does it bring out the good in my feminine figure?
Now in many cultures men dont lust when they see a clevage… I think the thinking is much due to what you and your parents teach your self to think. When I first met certain american catholic men on a pilgrimage I first encountered the nasty head of suspicion raised against me as a woman because I wore a - for my culture - normal summer dress. Do you think I had pity for men who in their words and eyes saw me as a prostitute allthough I had never ever been treated like it before and was like a child? No I despised these men for their vile minds and still do. they could not handle their own impurity so they chose to blame it on a girl.
My problem is with the prejudice towards women that is displayed on these boards because some of you men are thinking: “If I was wearing that shirt, I would be out to get a response sexually”. But you are not me or another woman, so stop telling us what we are thinking when we get dressed in the morning. And stop judging us for some exterior thing like a pharisee and think worthines and virtue equals modesty in clothes.
Why? Because you are fixated on the forbidden fruit, the breast of a woman. Demystify it your thoughts - enter into a dialog with the dogs that are barking in the tower - and I think it will become a lot easier for you as a gender. You will have peace.
I have girl friends that wear much clothes and I have those that wear rather revealing clothes. Among those who wear revealing clothes are the most innocent creatures I know… much more so than I and others who wear much but dont have the essential things working…
What are the essential things.Tthey are purity of mind and heart, thinking well about your neighbour, honesty, not being proud, not using people…

I have said all these things before and I never see these threads about modesty of WOMEN changing the minds of either gender… so what I suggest is:

Man, focus on your own weaknesses and sins. Work on them and you will be too busy to see the weaknesses and sins of others.
Woman, just like the man, listen to your conscience and the Holy Spirit and seek to live a holy life, not occupied with the sins of others, but bettering your self.

Grace

 

[Catholic_89]

Chevalier…
Unfortunatey the young men who were active on this thread have decided not to answer me.
I do not understand your point.
To me it seems like to many North American Catholic men oversexualise the intentions of women in their surroundings… as an intention namely which you know in its nature is reflected, an evil plan to produce lust.
That is the error.
We are repeatedly asked to understand you men.
Then understand us in return. I do not like when women are generelised into a category of cheep or lustful people who are out to lead men to fall… When in fact women think differently. We dont think ‘sex’ when we choose outfits. We think: is this nice, is it pretty, is it fashionable. does it bring out the good in my feminine figure?
Now in many cultures men dont lust when they see a clevage… I think the thinking is much due to what you and your parents teach your self to think. When I first met certain american catholic men on a pilgrimage I first encountered the nasty head of suspicion raised against me as a woman because I wore a - for my culture - normal summer dress. Do you think I had pity for men who in their words and eyes saw me as a prostitute allthough I had never ever been treated like it before and was like a child? No I despised these men for their vile minds and still do. they could not handle their own impurity so they chose to blame it on a girl.
My problem is with the prejudice towards women that is displayed on these boards because some of you men are thinking: “If I was wearing that shirt, I would be out to get a response sexually”. But you are not me or another woman, so stop telling us what we are thinking when we get dressed in the morning. And stop judging us for some exterior thing like a pharisee and think worthines and virtue equals modesty in clothes.
Why? Because you are fixated on the forbidden fruit, the breast of a woman. Demystify it your thoughts - enter into a dialog with the dogs that are barking in the tower - and I think it will become a lot easier for you as a gender. You will have peace.
I have girl friends that wear much clothes and I have those that wear rather revealing clothes. Among those who wear revealing clothes are the most innocent creatures I know… much more so than I and others who wear much but dont have the essential things working…
What are the essential things.Tthey are purity of mind and heart, thinking well about your neighbour, honesty, not being proud, not using people…

I have said all these things before and I never see these threads about modesty of WOMEN changing the minds of either gender… so what I suggest is:

Man, focus on your own weaknesses and sins. Work on them and you will be too busy to see the weaknesses and sins of others.
Woman, just like the man, listen to your conscience and the Holy Spirit and seek to live a holy life, not occupied with the sins of others, but bettering your self.

Grace

Hello,
I am afraid you are the one who is in error. You are judged by what you wear. You saying that women who wear provocative and revealing clothing are the most innocent things is simply contradictory. To have innocence brings about a certain humility which cannot be found in such dressing. Would a nun wear such clothing? What would you think if she did? You would say that this is unappropriate for a nun.(One who is close to God)
I am not saying that men should blame their problems on women. That is definitely not the case. But men and women should try their best to lead others away from sin. To deny this is simply not thinking of others, which is what we are called to do as Catholics.
Like I said, you are judged by how you dress. If you dress like a gangster, I will find you sketchy. If you dress like a gothic, then it will appear as if you are a rebel. If you dress like business person, you look rich. If you dress like a teen, people will think you are one, and if you dress older than your look, then people will think you are older. Then what is so different about dressing provocative clothing. This would be extreme (but I have seen women wear it), women wearing clothing that looks like a prostite or something along those lines. What kind of message are you giving about yourself? To you maybe its ‘cute’, but to others its offensive. When I see girls dressed unappropriately, I am not attracted to them. I am turned away at their lack of modesty; at their lack of self-respect.
It is true that in some societies people are more revealing and it is normal. Well we are in this society. In some societies women walk topless. Shall we now have women walking topless in our streets? St.Padre Pio would be very upset at women who wore lipstick, becaus that is what prostitutes used to wear in his time. What would he say now!
If you want to wear provocative clothing, its your choice. But Catholic teaching is Catholic teaching. Immodesty is not the way of God. Concern for others is. You are a Catholic, and as one should be setting an example for others. God bless.

 

[SarahR]

Treat her with dignity, compliment her when you can do it sincerely, and refrain from criticizing her or offering “constructive criticism”…she’s not your daughter and unless she asks your opinion, it’s just not your place to police her wardrobe.