Mohammad and Zainab

[Reuben_J]

Muslim Woman:

At first , he did not want to marry her . Later , when he found out that the couple is unhappy & want to dissolve the marriage ; Specially when God sends the revealation that He wants him to marry Zainab , then there was no other choice . Believers must not challenge God but say ’ We hear & We obey’ .

Even if I accept this supposition a few things would come to mind:

1. Mohammad made wrong judgment when he married Zainab to Zaid. Not that such marriage is guaranteed successful but then this is Mohammad, the Seal of the prophets. You would not expect he would make mistake on this.
2. You are putting God with having very little option here that He must force Mohammad to marry a woman he did not like. What kind of a god is this? Wasn’t there no other solution? I know, Allah knows best!
3. You, like the others, have conveniently omitted all the preludes before this marriage and stick to the assumption that this is a clear cut command of Allah.
4. You also have not taken into consideration the phrase ‘conceal in his heart’ in 33:37 in this case.

 

[Reuben_J]

Saying muhammad married her “to teach” is simply ridiculous as teaching it by words was enough.

Saying Muhammad had no desire and was simply doing what Allah says is wrong because the Quran says Muhammad was concealing his desire for a married woman.

As to why Muhammad did not marry other women beside Khadija, my answer is, beside wealth, power and position , my answer is, but rather question is, according to which religion did he marry her if not islam and if it was Waraqa who pronounced them husband and wife according to the seera, and who was a convert to “Christianity”?

Anyone in his/her reasonable mind will agree that this is simply ridiculous. Yet we hear Muslim like Planten unashamedly defends this position that Mohammad must set and made the example!

That’s a good observation on why he was monogamous with Khadijah. And later the revelations conveniently arrived one by one much to the supposedly reluctant Mohammad to follow! What a way to be heroic prophet!

 

[planten]

Anyone in his/her reasonable mind will agree that this is simply ridiculous. Yet we hear Muslim like Planten unashamedly defends this position that Mohammad must set and made the example!

That’s a good observation on why he was monogamous with Khadijah. And later the revelations conveniently arrived one by one much to the supposedly reluctant Mohammad to follow! What a way to be heroic prophet!

**You want that Muhamamd should have just said that Muslims can marry the divorced wives of their adopted sons. Would you have been happy with that? Surely not. You would still have chased Muhammad for giving wrong idea.

All that messenger Muhammad was doing was according to the message he got from Allah. I had told “Example is better than precept.”
It was necessary tobreak the deadlock about adopted sons and unreal relations such as begotten sons who were not really begotten in the normal sense of the word.

The christians were having a son of God who was not really any son at all. The Catholics were forbidding divorce completely. The Catholics were forbidding every one to marry a divorced person. Please take all tehe thinsg into account and then you will understand why it was necessary for man of God to set the people free from such bad beliefs. That was done very well by practical example.

Now we know that an adopted son is not a real son. I hope the Jews have the same belief. Also there cannot be any begotten son except begotten by a human father. All these things needed perfect guidance so that the people of the world are not left in darkness.

You keep asking why Muhammad had to marry? We will keep on telling you that it was necessary. But also, please see that you have no real guidance in your religion about marriage and divorce etc. The Book of moses is far superior in giving guidance to their own people. That book (Torah) is very useful to guide the world even today. But many in Europe will be die under teh Mosaic law. Those Europeans who dislike cutting off the hand of the thieves, how they will like all adulterers and fornicators to be stoned to death?

The argument about marraige and divorce is useless for the Catholics.**

 

[meedo]

Thie whiole debate is going no where .

Muhamemd married a lady that he is allowed to marry. She is not his son’s wife as the man whom she was previously amrried for was not his son.

There is no rule of necessity that ONLY through words must a commandement be communicated to a nation. Indeed if any example of a ruler shoudl be taken seriously , it is an example by deeds, which means that it is now done and shown that the wives of adopted sons are not really wives of real sons. if they are devorced they can be married .

There were other incidents that showd people only following the priophet when he took action as the first . This was in the case of cutting his hair as an indication of the end of the hajj pilgrimage . people refused to cut their hair until theur saw that the prophet did it himself in public because they would not believe that they wouldnt go to Hajj this year.

any other reference to alleged moral problems with Muhammed is just opinions of biased people thats all. Lots of this is all around this forum.

 

[planten]

**J C, thanks for your comical remarks about me. So good of you… **.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Thie whiole debate is going no where .

Muhamemd married a lady that he is allowed to marry.

yes , that’s a good point. God will Judge us according to His final holy book Quran , Not by today’s or tomorrow’s western culture or what western people think about a legal marriage.

 

[cathopologist]

yes , that’s a good point. God will Judge us according to His final holy book Quran , Not by today’s or tomorrow’s western culture or what western people think about a legal marriage.

Eastern cultures and Eastern people also abhor polygamous marriages. In Malaysia, there is a growing number of Muslim women who are demanding the state to abolish polygamous marriages.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… In Malaysia, there is a growing number of Muslim women who are demanding the state to abolish polygamous marriages.

if the whole world ban polygamy , it does not mean that God did not allow it in His holy book.

Earlier there was no limit for men on marriages , Quran fixed a maximum number , also with condition – he must act justly , otherwise marry only one.

It’s sad that many men don’t fulfill the condition. Also many women accept husband’s illegal girlfriends but they don’t want to share husband lawfully. It’s really a pity.

 

[planten]

Eastern cultures and Eastern people also abhor polygamous marriages. In Malaysia, there is a growing number of Muslim women who are demanding the state to abolish polygamous marriages.

Where there is injustice, there will be trouble. In Islam, Polygamy is allowed with conditions and restrictions. Most important of them is that there should be no secret marriages (paramours) and the husband should treat each wife equally. If he cannot do that then he is sinful. I am sure if the first wife is not let down then she would not dislike the second marriage of her husband.

The example in the bible OT is very clear. When the barren lady (Sarah) was completely broken down and was hopeless, she permitted the second marriage of her husband (Abraham) to Hagar. That was a legal operation. Otherwise niether Sarah nor Abraham would resort to the second marriage. That is a clear case of permitted ploygamy in the bible OT.

How come the present day people have become more wise and more pious than Abraham and Sarah?? Please be reasonable. If you accuse people of second marriage then you should accuse Abraham and Sarah first. (More later about Arab and Indian ladies view point in contrast to the news of the Malaysian ladies).

 

[Jay53]

Where there is injustice, there will be trouble. In Islam, Polygamy is allowed with conditions and restrictions. Most important of them is that there should be no secret marriages (paramours) and the husband should treat each wife equally. If he cannot do that then he is sinful. I am sure if the first wife is not let down then she would not dislike the second marriage of her husband.

The example in the bible OT is very clear. When the barren lady (Sarah) was completely broken down and was hopeless, she permitted the second marriage of her husband (Abraham) to Hagar. That was a legal operation. Otherwise niether Sarah nor Abraham would resort to the second marriage. That is a clear case of permitted ploygamy in the bible OT.

How come the present day people have become more wise and more pious than Abraham and Sarah?? Please be reasonable. If you accuse people of second marriage then you should accuse Abraham and Sarah first. (More later about Arab and Indian ladies view point in contrast to the news of the Malaysian ladies).

Hagar was NOT married to Abraham. Please see the Ask About Islam 3 thread, post #63. I don’t want to post the whole thing as I think it is off topic to this thread. Thank you.

 

[planten]

Hagar was NOT married to Abraham. Please see the Ask About Islam 3 thread, post #63. I don’t want to post the whole thing as I think it is off topic to this thread. Thank you.

Jay, please see that polygamy is being discussed here. You say that Hagar was NOT married to Abraham. Do you feel that it was adultry? When it is written in the bibleOT that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to be his wife. Was that a lie or illegal? What would you say was the relation when Abraham was entering into Hagar? Please reply.

 

[Reuben_J]

Thie whiole debate is going no where .

I have the feeling that you would rather this discussion be stopped, that we should not discuss this anymore. Is that right?

Muhamemd married a lady that he is allowed to marry. She is not his son’s wife as the man whom she was previously amrried for was not his son.

The man was his adopted son. He personally adopted him. Therefore his wife was his adopted son’s wife. But in a stroke of one verse this fact became obliterated and forgotten. I know Mohammad could teach that an adopted son is not real son, but in term of moral, he had ruthlessly acted as if nothing had happened between him and Zaid.

There is no rule of necessity that ONLY through words must a commandement be communicated to a nation. Indeed if any example of a ruler shoudl be taken seriously , it is an example by deeds, which means that it is now done and shown that the wives of adopted sons are not really wives of real sons. if they are devorced they can be married .

Yes, I agree that a ruler must show by example. I just feel the revelation was necessitated by the events prior to it. I therefore question this revelation because it was so self-serving to Mohammad himself.

And this is the thrust of this thread which none of you have rebutted. Your contention is simply Mohammad had to obey Allah but you do not consider Mohammad’s actions that leads to the revelation. You did not believe the hadeeth or the tradition behind this marriage. In that case, of course nothing much that can be said.

There were other incidents that showd people only following the priophet when he took action as the first . This was in the case of cutting his hair as an indication of the end of the hajj pilgrimage . people refused to cut their hair until theur saw that the prophet did it himself in public because they would not believe that they wouldnt go to Hajj this year.

Cutting one’s hair is surely less of moral issue than marrying one’s adopted son’s wife.

any other reference to alleged moral problems with Muhammed is just opinions of biased people thats all. Lots of this is all around this forum.

I see opinions too from people who are defending Mohammad on all this.

 

[Reuben_J]

Jay, please see that polygamy is being discussed here. You say that Hagar was NOT married to Abraham. Do you feel that it was adultry? When it is written in the bibleOT that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to be his wife. Was that a lie or illegal? What would you say was the relation when Abraham was entering into Hagar? Please reply.

Strictly speaking it was adultery.

Hagar gave birth to Ishmael but it was not through this son that’s Abraham’s blessing from God would come.

Hagar was not Abraham legal wife. She was suggested to him by his wife Sarah who at that moment had not enough faith in the providence of God. Therefore Abraham relation with Hagar was illegal.

 

[planten]

Strictly speaking it was adultery.

Hagar gave birth to Ishmael but it was not through this son that’s Abraham’s blessing from God would come.

Hagar was not Abraham legal wife. She was suggested to him by his wife Sarah who at that moment had not enough faith in the providence of God. Therefore Abraham relation with Hagar was illegal.

That means Abraham was doing something illegal. You have not spared any man of God except Jesus who was, according to your descriptives, neither a man nor a god.

If you are accusing Abraham of adultery then you have no religion. Nothing to do with God. Your next step would be to accuse God of adultery. I hope you will soon achieve that too.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

…Abraham relation with Hagar was illegal.

when I read the Bible for the first time , I was horrified to find so many dirty allegations against several Prophets ( peace be upon them all ). I thought like this : either some Jews included those verses to prove that they were right in the past to disobeyed & killed some Prophets of God ; Or some Christians did that to prove that only Jesus (p) is sinless .

God knows Best .

 

[Jay53]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

when I read the Bible for the first time , I was horrified to find so many dirty allegations against several Prophets ( peace be upon them all ). I thought like this : either some Jews included those verses to prove that they were right in the past to disobeyed & killed some Prophets of God ; Or some Christians did that to prove that only Jesus (p) is sinless .

God knows Best .

Of course only Jesus is sinless. All the rest of us, you, me, everyone here, including all the prophets are sinners.
Is there some doctrine in Islam that claims anyone else is sinless?

Planten: If you are accusing Abraham of adultery then you have no religion. Nothing to do with God. Your next step would be to accuse God of adultery. I hope you will soon achieve that too.

I’m not quite sure what Abraham committing adultery has to do with having no religion. or accusing God of adultery ??? What in the world are you talking about?

 

[nosadl]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

when I read the Bible for the first time , I was horrified to find so many dirty allegations against several Prophets ( peace be upon them all ). I thought like this : either some Jews included those verses to prove that they were right in the past to disobeyed & killed some Prophets of God ; Or some Christians did that to prove that only Jesus (p) is sinless .

God knows Best .

Sister, you need to read the bible again. Jesus was sinless. The prophets were not. sigh. open your heart and mind when you do read the old and new testament. One day every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is lord. do it today.

Praying for you always

 

[jastor]

Can you give reference to the hadeeth you quoted?

So you don’t believe that Mohammad had a desire for Zainab? That he married Zainab because Allah commanded him to?

Very convenient.

 

[jastor]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

when I read the Bible for the first time , I was horrified to find so many dirty allegations against several Prophets ( peace be upon them all ). I thought like this : either some Jews included those verses to prove that they were right in the past to disobeyed & killed some Prophets of God ; Or some Christians did that to prove that only Jesus (p) is sinless .

God knows Best .

I was horrified when I read the quran!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

I was horrified when I read the quran!

No problem ; that’s why God told us to say :
To you be your Way, and to me mine ( 109:6)