Mohammad and Zainab

[Reuben_J]

That means Abraham was doing something illegal. You have not spared any man of God except Jesus who was, according to your descriptives, neither a man nor a god.

If you are accusing Abraham of adultery then you have no religion. Nothing to do with God. Your next step would be to accuse God of adultery. I hope you will soon achieve that too.

Obviously Planten is trying to inflame. Fortunately it’s so shallow I am able to see the pebbles on the river bed.

Does this mean you take God equals to Abraham? This is new to me. You haven’t told us this before, have you?

 

[Reuben_J]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

when I read the Bible for the first time , I was horrified to find so many dirty allegations against several Prophets ( peace be upon them all ). I thought like this : either some Jews included those verses to prove that they were right in the past to disobeyed & killed some Prophets of God ; Or some Christians did that to prove that only Jesus (p) is sinless .

God knows Best .

Yes, on first thought you can figure it that way. Taking it rightly and positively it is not.

The Bible records the true happenings of the ancient people, God’s people included. Prophets were not perfect, only God is perfect. We cannot push prophets into the level of God’s perfection if they truly had not reached that level. Therefore prophets did make mistakes at times though for the most part they did not. When we read the Bible we can take the examples of the prophets - follow what was right and avoid which were not.

This is where Islam differs from Christianity. Islam believes that prophets were perfect that could do no wrong and that Muslims must follow what they did. This thread just proves this. Mohammad had many wives and had concubines. He married his adopted son’s wife and he married a child of six. Muslims say nothing wrong with this after all Mohammad had them all, done them all.

Something to ponder about.

 

[Reuben_J]

I was horrified when I read the quran!

I share this thought. For me it was more of feeling alienated. The Quran has so many bad words for us. It might as well be, because it’s not for us. But at least we know how Muslims think of non-Muslims and if the Quran is any indicator, we are not in their good book.

 

[swariffin]

Jay, please see that polygamy is being discussed here. You say that Hagar was NOT married to Abraham. Do you feel that it was adultry? When it is written in the bibleOT that Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham to be his wife. Was that a lie or illegal? What would you say was the relation when Abraham was entering into Hagar? Please reply.

Where in the bible that Hagar is the legal wife of Abraham? In Gen 21:12-13, even God Himself did not say that Hagar was the wife of Abraham. The best status of Hagar was a concubine. King James Version called Hagar as the “bondwoman”.

 

[swariffin]

** The Catholics were forbidding divorce completely. The Catholics were forbidding every one to marry a divorced person. **

You are wrong. If the husband died, then the widow can re-marry. Or, if the marriage of the couple was “invalid” (such as that the couple were in fact brother and sister), then the marriage is considered to be invalid, and the woman can marry in the church (not re-marry).

 

[swariffin]

That means Abraham was doing something illegal. You have not spared any man of God except Jesus who was, according to your descriptives, neither a man nor a god.

If you are accusing Abraham of adultery then you have no religion. Nothing to do with God. Your next step would be to accuse God of adultery. I hope you will soon achieve that too.

A prophet can do sinful things too.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by **planten: **
That means Abraham was doing something illegal. You have not spared any man of God except Jesus who was, according to your descriptives, neither a man nor a god.

If you are accusing Abraham of adultery then you have no religion. Nothing to do with God. Your next step would be to accuse God of adultery. I hope you will soon achieve that too.

A prophet can do sinful things too.

Hi

You know to err is human; kindly mention what errors did Jesus make, so that at least he remains a man at least, and God he never was, in my opinion.

I love Jesus the man and the son of man/woman

Thanks

 

[Jay53]

Hi

You know to err is human; kindly mention what errors did Jesus make, so that at least he remains a man at least, and God he never was, in my opinion.

I love Jesus the man and the son of man/woman

Thanks

I know of no errors that Jesus made. If you know of any, please share. Thank you.

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi

You know to err is human; kindly mention what errors did Jesus make, so that at least he remains a man at least, and God he never was, in my opinion.

I love Jesus the man and the son of man/woman

Thanks

1 Jesus is not a prophet.
2 Jesus did not and never did make any errors.
3 Jesus IS God in my opinion.
4 Jesus is the Son of God.

End of story.

 

[jakasaki]

Hi

I love Jesus the man and the son of man/woman

Thanks

Oh honestly paarsurrey - what is it with you and your signatures.

I can just see you typing your ending signatures with a grin from ear to ear to see if we are going to twich or jerk off our chairs …

Regards,
Pam
New York

 

[paarsurrey]

1 Jesus is not a prophet.
2 Jesus did not and never did make any errors.
3 Jesus IS God in my opinion.
4 Jesus is the Son of God.

End of story.

Originally Posted by paarsurrey:
Hi

You know to err is human; kindly mention what errors did Jesus make, so that at least he remains a man at least, and God he never was, in my opinion.

I love Jesus the man and the son of man/woman

Thanks

Hi

You have stated that Jesus did not and never did make any errors; since man can make and do make mistakes, so Jesus was not a man, as I understand from you.

Catholics who say that Jesus was a perfect man should note it please.

Jesus was not a God, in my opinion. Perhaps it is because of this that Jews say that historically Jesus never existed.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned by GodAllahYHWH in Quran.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by **paarsurrey: **
Hi

You know to err is human; kindly mention what errors did Jesus make, so that at least he remains a man at least, and God he never was, in my opinion.

I love Jesus the man and the son of man/woman

Thanks

I know of no errors that Jesus made. If you know of any, please share. Thank you.

Hi

Since it is the Catholics who has to prove that Jesus was a perfect man; and to err is human, it is the Catholics prerogative to cite errors made by Jesus. If they cannot, then Jesus ceases to be a perfect man, please, in my opinion.

Do you accept that Jesus was not a perfect man?

I love Jesus mentioned in Quran by GodAllahYHWH. GodAllah is sufficient for a witness. No further witnessing is required.

Thanks

 

[planten]

Yes, on first thought you can figure it that way. Taking it rightly and positively it is not.

The Bible records the true happenings of the ancient people, God’s people included. Prophets were not perfect, only God is perfect. We cannot push prophets into the level of God’s perfection if they truly had not reached that level. Therefore prophets did make mistakes at times though for the most part they did not. When we read the Bible we can take the examples of the prophets - follow what was right and avoid which were not.

The reason the Jews and christians attributed the bad things (sins) to the prophets was that they themselve wanted to do bad things. They needed an excuse for that so they invented lies against the wise men of God.

This is where Islam differs from Christianity. Islam believes that prophets were perfect that could do no wrong and that Muslims must follow what they did. This thread just proves this. Mohammad had many wives and had concubines. He married his adopted son’s wife and he married a child of six. Muslims say nothing wrong with this after all Mohammad had them all, done them all.

Yes there is a big difference in idealogoy. But the christians are biased. When they blame all prophets with something bad and consider all of them as sinful, they like to keep Jesus out of that group. Why?? That is not fair.

We Muslims are better. WE do not blame any prophet, including Jesus. We do not accuse any prophet and we do not accuse Jesus or his mother of anything bad. Every one can then understand who is on better footing.

Something to ponder about.

I have also given you some ffod for thought. Think over it, please.

 

[planten]

From Reuben, This is where Islam differs from Christianity. Islam believes that prophets were perfect that could do no wrong and that Muslims must follow what they did. This thread just proves this. Mohammad had many wives and had concubines. He married his adopted son’s wife and he married a child of six. Muslims say nothing wrong with this after all Mohammad had them all, done them all

.

Sorry, I missed out the post of Reuben. Muhammad had many wives. (Jesus did not have any wife.) Muhammad did not have any concubines and he forbade every to have any concubine. He went for marriage. (Jesus did not go for marriage. May be he did not like marriage. Quite impractical, un-natural way of life.)

Muhammad married a divorced lady who was previously the wife of his so called son (Zaid). That was very important lesson for the world to disprove all false doctrines of the christians.

1. No. 1 doctrine was that divorce is illegal. That was wrong belief. So Muhammd’s teaching allowed the divorce.
2. It proved that there is no supposed son such as adopted or begotten son. A son is only a real son. So the world get rid of the notion of adopted and begotten sons.
3. It proved that it okay to marry a divorced person. Theis thing was also troubling the whole world due to the Catholic teaching that no one should marry a divorced person. The Catholics considered that act as adultery. Which was wrong. So the act of Muhammad helped the world to go along on the right lines.

The Catholics also had to admit the divorce when the people revolted agianst their bad teachings.

Example is better than precept, and actions speak louder than words. The die has been cast. The Catholics can see now how many nations in the world accept divorce as an unavoidable act? See the things in the world practically in all countries.

Also see, if there is any adopted son officially admitted as a real son. Nowhere.

Also, see in the world, every one is marrying the divorced persons. So who is right? Muhammad or the church? Be real.

 

[inJESUS]

Yes, that’s exactly my problem with all this. It is just not right to marry your relative especially if she have been a wife of your son albeit adopted son.

worse yet, it was Allah asking a supposed prophet not to conceal his feelings for a married woman, let alone the wife of whom he considered a son but Muhammad was no idiot, he knew what scandal it might cause, so what better than a direct revelation from Allah so that his followers says “we hear and we obey”, like Muslim Woman said?
if Muslims just scrutinize Muhamad’s deeds and self-serving revelations without the “divine aura” they put around his head, they will see him for who exactly he was.

 

[Booklover]

worse yet, it was Allah asking a supposed prophet not to conceal his feelings for a married woman, let alone the wife of whom he considered a son but Muhammad was no idiot, he knew what scandal it might cause, so what better than a direct revelation from Allah so that his followers says “we hear and we obey”, like Muslim Woman said?
if Muslims just scrutinize Muhamad’s deeds and self-serving revelations without the “divine aura” they put around his head, they will see him for who exactly he was.

 

[charlotte10]

I may be sterotyping the Islam religion or maybe it is because I have been without a husband, since 1993, but truethfully if I spend too much time studying Islam, I come to the decision, it is a sensual religion.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

You know to err is human; kindly mention what errors did Jesus make, so that at least he remains a man at least, and God he never was, in my opinion.

I love Jesus the man and the son of man/woman

Thanks

Jesus did no err nor sin, Paar. Because He is the word of God.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

Since it is the Catholics who has to prove that Jesus was a perfect man; and to err is human, it is the Catholics prerogative to cite errors made by Jesus. If they cannot, then Jesus ceases to be a perfect man, please, in my opinion.

Do you accept that Jesus was not a perfect man?

I love Jesus mentioned in Quran by GodAllahYHWH. GodAllah is sufficient for a witness. No further witnessing is required.

Thanks

Jesus is 100% man because Jesus can weep, hungry, even angry, feel pain.

Jesus is 100% God, because the origin of Jesus is the word of God (John 1:1), God’s word became human (John 1:14), and Jesus did no sin (1 John 3:5).

The difference of 100% Jesus as a man to other men, is the sin. It is the other men (including you and me) who are imperfect, not Jesus as a man. How can 6.000.000.000 blind persons in this world think they are perfect compared to just one man who can see.

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus is 100% man because Jesus can weep, hungry, even angry, feel pain.

Hi

Sure he could. The sameway a human must sometimes make mistakes, in my opinion. Did Jesus also make some mistakes? This is a litmus test.

I love Jesus

Thanks