Mom: MySpace Hoax Led to Daughter's Suicide

[Digitonomy]

Maybe what is considered legal and what is ethical are two different things.

Yes, which is as it should be. I wouldn’t want to live under a government that made it illegal to be mean to your sister.

We should have higher standards of conduct for ourselves than what is codified in the law, and the law should have more stringent standards of evidence to prove guilt than is necessary for simple moral determinations.

 

[He_Man]

No. I don’t think I would even want my children having blogs or MySpace pages or Facebook pages or anything like that.

The people who made the fake account should be prosecuted for murder.

Parents need to be aware of what their kids are doing online- it is not being nosy- it is responsible parenting. They don’t need to look over their shoulder, but I wouldn’t allow a child to have a computer in their bedroom, or to spend excessive amounts of time on it.

Likely, the law will go after them for manslaughter at best. Similar to if I run over someone by accident with my car, it rarely carries a charge of murder.

This will be even tougher given that she technically killed herself. The legal machinations will be interesting.

This is very sad indeed.

 

[Aramis]

Likely, the law will go after them for manslaughter at best. Similar to if I run over someone by accident with my car, it rarely carries a charge of murder.

This will be even tougher given that she technically killed herself. The legal machinations will be interesting.

This is very sad indeed.

In many states, there is a history of triggering a suicide as involuntary manslaughter, based upon the principle of reckless disregaurd for human life which results in the loss of a human life. The outcome needs to have been foreseeable, probable, and avoidable, and there needs to be a clear causality and known to the offender history of suicidality.

It’s not often prosecuted, but when it is, DA’s tend to seek excessive sentences, and plea bargain.

 

[deb1]

Yes, which is as it should be. I wouldn’t want to live under a government that made it illegal to be mean to your sister.

.

I still think there is a difference between children being mean to one another and adults mentally torturing a child. If you, as an adult, know that your sister is depressed and you continue to be mean to her, aren’t you culpable for at least harrasment? .

 

[deb1]

Just a question…If this woman is charged with murder could her case be used against other people. For example, if a woman breaks up with a guy she knows is suicidal would she be legally culpable for his resulting suicide.

I would hate to see a case in which someone trying to escape a bad relationship is charged with murder because their boy/girl friend committed suicide.

 

[kentuckyliz]

Yeah, legally probably nothing will happen to the hoaxster. It will be up to social rejection. I hope they are punished for this by decent people turning their backs on them. What monsters!

Oh well, at least it brings more attention to cyberbullying. MySpace and the internet aren’t evil, they are neutral, just a tool in bullying that used to happen by other means before the Internet came along.

Also helps to teach a healthy skepticism about “people” that you only know online. There is a lot of deception and fantasy on the internet.

 

[Aramis]

Just a question…If this woman is charged with murder could her case be used against other people. For example, if a woman breaks up with a guy she knows is suicidal would she be legally culpable for his resulting suicide.

I would hate to see a case in which someone trying to escape a bad relationship is charged with murder because their boy/girl friend committed suicide.

They would have to establish the act as knowingly leading to suicidality, with a high probability of suicide, and a reckless disregard for whether or not he does so.

In the case of a break up, even going so far as to ask a mutual friend to check on them would be evidence that there wasn’t a reckless disregard… but dragging the soon-to-be-ex-SO on stage and dumping them at a concert, and then handing them their kitchen knife, then leaving without another word, that would show reckless disregard clearly.

It boils down to “Does the DA think they can convice 12 people that the perp intended the victim to commit suicide, and that they worked to that end.” There needs to be a clearly malicious intent.

 

[Digitonomy]

If you, as an adult, know that your sister is depressed and you continue to be mean to her, aren’t you culpable for at least harrasment? .

It depends on the action. If you repeatedly phone her and then hang up, that would qualify as the crime of harassment. If you turn away from her contemptuously in church or the grocery store, that is not a crime, it’s just mean. The status of some other acts may be a bit fuzzier.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I hope the people responsible for this will be prosecuted for murder.

The people who made the fake account should be prosecuted for murder.

I don’t understand why the mother who drove this girl to suicide isn’t charged with murder.

Likely, the law will go after them for manslaughter at best. Similar to if I run over someone by accident with my car, it rarely carries a charge of murder.

Just a question…If this woman is charged with murder could her case be used against other people. For example, if a woman breaks up with a guy she knows is suicidal would she be legally culpable for his resulting suicide.

I would hate to see a case in which someone trying to escape a bad relationship is charged with murder because their boy/girl friend committed suicide.

They would have to establish the act as knowingly leading to suicidality, with a high probability of suicide, and a reckless disregard for whether or not he does so.

In the case of a break up, even going so far as to ask a mutual friend to check on them would be evidence that there wasn’t a reckless disregard… but dragging the soon-to-be-ex-SO on stage and dumping them at a concert, and then handing them their kitchen knife, then leaving without another word, that would show reckless disregard clearly.

It boils down to “Does the DA think they can convice 12 people that the perp intended the victim to commit suicide, and that they worked to that end.” There needs to be a clearly malicious intent.

It depends on the action. If you repeatedly phone her and then hang up, that would qualify as the crime of harassment. If you turn away from her contemptuously in church or the grocery store, that is not a crime, it’s just mean. The status of some other acts may be a bit fuzzier.

While it is sad that a young girl took her own life, what happened with people being responsible for their own actions? Break-ups, whether real or made-up, are part of the growing up process. This is nothing new. Even before the internet, guys would go out with shy girls and girls would go out with nerd boys and then break up with them just for kicks. Again, this is nothing new and part of the growing up cycle that a lot of us went through on our journey to adulthood.

 

[SeekerJen]

While it is sad that a young girl took her own life, what happened with people being responsible for their own actions? Break-ups, whether real or made-up, are part of the growing up process. This is nothing new. Even before the internet, guys would go out with shy girls and girls would go out with nerd boys and then break up with them just for kicks. Again, this is nothing new and part of the growing up cycle that a lot of us went through on our journey to adulthood.

I would agree with you except that it was known that this poor girl was suffering from depression. Thus I don’t think that she can be held fully responsible for her actions.

I don’t think the woman responsible can or should be charged with murder, but I don’t think she should get off scot-free. I think she could easily be charged with aggravated harassment, libel, cyber-terrorism, or even child abuse. Perhaps her relationship with her own daughter should be investigated by child protective services. It doesn’t sound as though she is a responsible parent, and perhaps her daughter would be better off in the custody of someone else.

 

[Sir_Knight]

And I’m sure that in the past, girls and boys with low self-esteem and maybe even suffering from depression were picked upon this way by others.

As far as harassment by the mother … she really didn’t harass the girl in the true sense of the word. While I do not agree with what she has done, I don’t see what law she broke. She didn’t harass, abuse or threaten the girl.

 

[SeekerJen]

As far as harassment by the mother … she really didn’t harass the girl in the true sense of the word. While I do not agree with what she has done, I don’t see what law she broke. She didn’t harass, abuse or threaten the girl.

From the original article:

Someone using Josh’s account was sending cruel messages. Then, Megan called her mother, saying electronic bulletins were being posted about her, saying things like, “Megan Meier is a slut. Megan Meier is fat.”

…

The mother from down the street told police that she, her daughter and another person all typed and monitored the communication between the fictitious boy and Megan.

If this is not harassment, what is?

 

[Sir_Knight]

I volunteer at my daughter’s school to help out at recess. It’s a Catholic School. I hear children calling each other ‘fat’, ‘ugly’, ‘smelly’, etc.; at least a few times a week. I’m sure that in the upper grades ‘slut’ and other choice words are also used but those aren’t reported to an adult.

Should these children be charged with a crime if one of them decides to take their own life?

 

[Aramis]

I volunteer at my daughter’s school to help out at recess. It’s a Catholic School. I hear children calling each other ‘fat’, ‘ugly’, ‘smelly’, etc.; at least a few times a week. I’m sure that in the upper grades ‘slut’ and other choice words are also used but those aren’t reported to an adult.

Should these children be charged with a crime if one of them decides to take their own life?

Working in the public schools, I can say that any child caught using degrading terms for another child is going to at least get a time out, if not a trip to the office, and a call home on repeat offenses.

I am absolutely SHOCKED that a Catholic school fares worse than a public school system. In some states, a school that has such behavior on the grounds is in fact liable for neglect.

Let alone that a fourth degree in the KofC would be PARTY to allowing it!

 

[Sir_Knight]

First off, I don’t ALLOW it.

Secondly, they get placed on the isolation bench for the remainder of the recess period and the teacher is notified of their transgression. Being a volunteer, I have no official authority beyond that.

But the point is, that it continues to happen. Some are repeat offenders, some are not.

 

[Aramis]

First off, I don’t ALLOW it.

Secondly, they get placed on the isolation bench for the remainder of the recess period and the teacher is notified of their transgression. Being a volunteer, I have no official authority beyond that.

But the point is, that it continues to happen. Some are repeat offenders, some are not.

If there are persistent offenders, they need to be dealt with. You can, and probably should, keep note of who’s being a chronic case, and inform the principal of your concern.

You do have a right, as a volunteer, to inform your supervisor (which, by law in most states, is the principal) of matters which concern you.

 

[Sir_Knight]

If there are persistent offenders, they need to be dealt with.

And, again, isn’t that the responsibility of the teacher?

You can, and probably should, keep note of who’s being a chronic case, and inform the principal of your concern.

You do have a right, as a volunteer, to inform your supervisor (which, by law in most states, is the principal) of matters which concern you.

My primary concern is not so much name-calling but the PHYSICAL safety of the children. Just this past week four boys grabbed a fifth boy by the arms and legs and were about to throw him down a hill … I stopped them in mid-swing.

A few weeks ago I noticed an adult talking through the fence to a small child who was keeping her distance. When I approached, the man quickly ran off. When I asked the little girl what the man was saying to her, she informed me that he asked her if she wanted to play with a puppy and for her to come around the fence and he would take her to his car where the puppy was. By the time I hopped the fence and went around the corner, the car was already a few blocks down the street and quickly disappeared from sight.

Maybe it’s me but with limited resources, in my mind, these sort of things take priority over name-calling.

 

[kentuckyliz]

One would need to know the state statutes, but I know calling someone fat or a slut is not harassment by the legal definition of the word (in my state anyway).

TG there are laws to protect people from the lynch mob! My goodness!

The parents could probably still bring a civil suit for wrongful death regardless of the lack of a prosecutable crime.

 

[SeekerJen]

I volunteer at my daughter’s school to help out at recess. It’s a Catholic School. I hear children calling each other ‘fat’, ‘ugly’, ‘smelly’, etc.; at least a few times a week. I’m sure that in the upper grades ‘slut’ and other choice words are also used but those aren’t reported to an adult.

Should these children be charged with a crime if one of them decides to take their own life?

I’m not equating the acts of a grown adult parent with those of children. If the mother in question has the mental level of a 12 or 13-year-old, perhaps she is an unfit parent.

 

[Aramis]

And, again, isn’t that the responsibility of the teacher?

No. The principal is the primary. At least in most states.

Teachers, TA’s, and volunteers are responsible to a far lesser extent, but are obligated to report persistent problems to the principal, especially if they are school-wide.

And if you have consistent repeaters, and constant problems with it, the principal is liable, personally and legally, if not morally, for all of the school, acting in loco parentis.

Most states (and federal law) encourage anti-bullying curriculae. Many states require them. Some require them of private schools.

back on topic:
And at the very least, what the original parent did is a grotesque form of bullying.