Moral issue of going to a VERY wiccan house and a VERY wiccan "family" friend

[Reynardus]

I’ll just add my thoughts to everyone’s contributions.

Be kind, charitable and polite. That goes without saying as well as the other prayer suggestions.

Also, don’t give any strange phenomenon too much recognition. Recognition and fear can strengthen negative phenomena. Any feelings of fear should be resolved by prayer. Any initial instances of weirdness should be ignored unless the phenomena is intense enough to cause physical harm. Being too obsessed with preternatural phenomena without good cause should be avoided.

Always remember that the devil cannot hurt you without God’s permission.

 

[GraceDK]

Thanks.

Yes, it also counts for Buddhism, Islam and Hinduism. But, I must clarify about Buddhism. I don’t believe the Buddha was a demon. He was a human after all. He didn’t know Christ because he lived about 500 years before Him. His message was one of peace, compassion and kindness. So, while it was not a Godly religion, it was and is one filled with fruits of the Holy Spirit.

And actually, they don’t worship statues or follow false gods. Their culture is one in which bowing to a statue of the Buddha is out of reverence and respect, not worship. They deny any Creator, so it’s a bit different than Hinduism and Islam. They also don’t believe in any gods (historically), so it’s not a matter of worshipping demons or the Devil. It’s a matter of denying any outside influence.

In the grand scheme of the universe, there really is only two forces of good and evil. Good things come from God, evil from rebellion against God, whether consciously or unconsciously. We do not worship the same God as Islam. I will not accept that.

Peace…

MW

MW. let me remind you that Christians have died because they refused to bow infront of statues of other gods. Many of these gods are legendary figures that may or may not have actually lived. It makes no difference. The message of Buddhism is a lie. Its goal as well as the charity you speak of therein is also directed at emptiness.
In my eyes Buddha is honoured as a man who carried truth and is an example for religious life… The goal of the metaphysics of his world view was not love. The fact that you call the fruits of buddhism fruits of the Holy Spirit I find highly disturbing. Buddhism is a whole world view contrary to the Christian world view and the intentions of our personal loving Father in Heaven. The fruits of a lie is death and ignorance and really the nothingness they hope for while they live in this darkness.
Christ is the ONLY one who makes us pleasing to God in any way.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

MW. let me remind you that Christians have died because they refused to bow infront of statues of other gods. Many of these gods are legendary figures that may or may not have actually lived. It makes no difference.

Of course this is true. But, you don’t refuse to bow and respect a statue of the Lord Jesus since you are a Christian. Similarly, Buddhists don’t refuse to bow out of respect to a statue of the Buddha. I bow on my knees before my Father when I look at my crucifx above my bed. It reminds me of Him. I don’t worship my crucifix. I worship the One who died upon it.

The message of Buddhism is a lie. Its goal as well as the charity you speak of therein is also directed at emptiness.

Buddhism is more of a philosophy - a lifestyle than a religion. Most Buddhists don’t even go to temple. Emptiness is an often misunderstood aspect of Buddhism. It simply means emptiness of greed, hatred and anger - fruits that our Father wants for us also.

In my eyes Buddha is honoured as a man who carried truth and is an example for religious life… The goal of the metaphysics of his world view was not love. The fact that you call the fruits of buddhism fruits of the Holy Spirit I find highly disturbing.

Buddhism doesn’t have any view of metaphysics except to discount it and to discourage it’s practitioners from resorting to it. I’m sorry, but you really don’t know enough about Buddhism to critique it in this way. The goal of Buddhism is to rid oneself of greed, hatred and ignorance. Those same qualities are ones that our Heavenly Father also wishes for us.

Whether they realize it or not, Buddhists are bearing fruits or “qualities” that are really of God. The religion of Buddhism is not the fruits of the Holy Spirit (which I seemed to word that way in that one post). The qualities of peace, compassion and kindness that are found in the framework of Buddhism (and foundational to it) are qualities of our Father in Heaven.

Buddhism is a whole world view contrary to the Christian world view and the intentions of our personal loving Father in Heaven. The fruits of a lie is death and ignorance and really the nothingness they hope for while they live in this darkness.
Christ is the ONLY one who makes us pleasing to God in any way.

Of course it is contrary to our Christian worldview. And that’s why I don’t follow it anymore. Again, you don’t really understand Buddhism and “nothingness” enough to critique it. They don’t hope for nothingness, but for the ridding of greed, hatred and ignorance, realizing enlightenment (which you refer to as “nothingness”).

And, of course, Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father except through Him. No disagreement there.

Peace…

MW

 

[GraceDK]

You say:

“The goal of Buddhism is to rid oneself of greed, hatred and ignorance.”

The question: with what goal in mind? You know what the goal is of buddhism… dissolving into non-existence. Nirvana. So the actions are currupted, in my view, by the goal of the action or none-action…

But you are good to correct me if I am wrong. I have only had buddhism as a subject at university for one semester… we read a lot and I mean things that were written by buddhists… so thats where I got my information.

But as I said. Feel free to correct me… I would like to think I am wrong … even though it does sadden me that I have, in your view, not understood enough that I am allowed to make a critique, especially since learning about buddhism was one of the things that have irritated me the most… for some reason it made the hair stand up in the back of my neck…

 

[medallionsnijme]

I am sooo happy that so many people are offering their advice and everything! (like SUPER THRILLED! ) this whole issue has been buggin me for ages!! um someone asked about the anointed rocks, i got them from the cukierski apostolate (they are in accord with the Church). its the only place ive seen them, but im sorta new to some of the Sacramentals.
i do not believe that wiccan or paganism is good, whether they claim to be “white witches” or what. i believe that the people are inherently good, however they choose to do evil and be misguided. i myself dabbled in spiritualism (angel cards and all that junk) on my way back home to Catholicism and that had MORE freaky experiences and was evil, so as far as im concerned, anything that is NOT of or from God (or about) is evil.
has anyone else found it rather ironic that in islam they have the most beautiful architecture and art? or that in their religion its haram (forbidden) to draw anything that God created because He is the only creator, however, if you look in their art, they are sneaky and there are geometric shapes and patterns that represent birds, vines, plants, etc…like God wouldnt know what they mean to portray?! but this would open a whooolllee new can of worms…i believe in being accepting of people of all faiths, whether or not i agree with WHAT they believe.
anyways i know that i do have a fear of evil, and i am trying to and working on not being afraid (i think it stems from when i was in high school and being inadvertently “tortured” when my friends who dabbled in wiccan stuff would talk about things that happened(mind you, my imagination is both a blessing and a curse cos its on overdrive! lol) and that was when i was just getting to know God (my parents werent diligent in raising me Catholic)…so id always get scared and cling to God. and then its developed into this ocd type thing, which im working on…) (is this a good time to mention that my in-laws house is haunted!!! lol its EVERYWHERE!! )
at the moment, ive got a few new Patron Saint “buddies” as i affectionately call them, being St. Teresa of Avila because she got to the point of not being afraid of anything, and Padre Pio because he’s just so down to earth and is “anchoring”…and St. Alphonsus Liguori for helping me with ocd/scrupulosity.
lol all in all between my fears which im trying to root out and the whole wiccan woman thing, its just a bit much. i feel better when im not there. MUCH better! and i will always pray for her. shes been going on these tangents lately with saying things like “i wont be around forever” or “when i die…” so i think she might be terminally ill.
any advice for not using sacramentals superstitiously? i try not to and hope i dont. i know that in and of themselves they are nothing…but whats the difference between using them in faith and superstitously?? just need some clarification (i sleep with a Padre Pio prayer cloth on my pillow to help me fall asleep…)
and ive talked about it here and there with my husband, but i dont think he understands, or if he does, he feels bad for her and wants to help her with whatever is going on…hes the type of person (God bless him) who needs to be needed…and besides that, he feels closer to her i think because we are a quirky group of people and shes more liberal, say, than his parents (who are amazing and sweet people. my mom calls them the salt of the earth). and that bothers me. not to mention that his mother gets hurt when hell stay at their house on a holiday for a little while then rush off to go to this womans house and be there for hours! its just a bit um bizarre if you ask me
and i did send him with a St. Benedict Medal in his pocket that i put holy oil on and some holy water. i asked St. Benedict to protect him while he was there and guide him in God’s ways should anything wiccan happen.
other than that, ive printed off some deliverance prayers to pray everyday and deliver us from any evil that might be on us. (she wakes up every morning at 3 am to do her wiccan stuff) so i think that everyday is a good day to guard us against it! i really hope that she comes to know the Truth, i really do.
im so happy to have you guys to help me out here! God Bless you all!

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

You say:

“The goal of Buddhism is to rid oneself of greed, hatred and ignorance.”

The question: with what goal in mind? You know what the goal is of buddhism… dissolving into non-existence. Nirvana. So the actions are currupted, in my view, by the goal of the action or none-action…

No, I don’t know *that *as the goal, because that isn’t what the goal is. The Buddha attained the state of nirvana at age 35 and lived to be over 80 years old. He didn’t have to die to attain the state of nirvana, because the state of nirvana is what I said it was earlier - the ridding oneself of greed, hatred and ignorance, bearing the fruit of enlightenment. It is not dissolving into “non-existence” as many people erroneously teach and think.

But you are good to correct me if I am wrong. I have only had buddhism as a subject at university for one semester… we read a lot and I mean things that were written by buddhists… so thats where I got my information.

I’ve never seen a writing by a Buddhist that explained that nirvana was “non-existence”. It is referred to as “extinguishing” but that means the extinguishing of the three poisons I alluded to earlier. I’m only scratching the surface of the deep meanings of nirvana and Buddhism. The problem with a comparative religion class (even from a university class) is that it can be very one-sided and offer only one point of view (the POV of the authors).

But as I said. Feel free to correct me… I would like to think I am wrong … even though it does sadden me that I have, in your view, not understood enough that I am allowed to make a critique, especially since learning about buddhism was one of the things that have irritated me the most… for some reason it made the hair stand up in the back of my neck…

I’m sorry that it saddens you. But, in all humility and sincerity, the views of Buddhism you have shared are nowhere near basic Buddhism principles and understanding. I admit that my own understandings are limited as well.

It is reasonable to expect someone to have some basic knowledge of a subject before they critique it. You had no idea that what you were taught from the university was not true. Is it possible that your predisposition of irritation to Buddhism helped you form the views that you have now?

I found Buddhism to be a sound philosophical way of life in its own context. I didn’t find truth but I found a profound insistence on reflection and high principles of peace, compassion and kindness that are almost unrivaled in our world. Of course, Christianity holds the honor of being the most perfect religion on earth, with the greatest person in the universe as its founder.

We should really discontinue this discussion which is far off topic. If you would like to discuss further we could start another thread. I’m afraid we’ve derailed this thread long enough.

Peace…

MW

 

[tapiocapudding]

I’m not a catholic so you can take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I think perhaps your fears are a little overexaggerated. Then again, I don’t really believe in demons and the suchlike. I know I have numerous pagan friends and I have never had a problem with anything they practise- to me it is no different from visiting the house of a Hindu friend.
By all means, don’t visit this lady if you’re going to be uncomfortable- no one will have a good time. But I think it’s a little crazy to suggest that most Wiccans have demons swirling about the premises or that they’re in commune with the devil.

 

[medallionsnijme]

lol yes, it is waaay off from my original thread, but i need to add in my two cents: please remember that Buddhism is considered the closest “sister-relgion” to Christianity. i would highly recommend reading Living Buddha Living Christ as well as Be Still and Know by Thitch Nich Tam. i think i spelled his name wrong, or got the last part wrong (apologies!) but hes a world reknowned buddhist monk from vietnam who has long promoted peace and compassion. I still believe its important to learn similarities as well as knowing differences (besides the obvious ones like worshipping gods, goddesses, and…cows…), and i also believe that in learning these things it deepens your faith in what you personally believe and you can see things in a more “rounded” light. it causes you to know why you believe what you believe, which also makes you know what you dont believe. all of these things makes the footing on your own path in your own faith that much more solid. i hope that makes sense and i know this from my own journey back. for this reason i am happy to have had the “travels” i did, because i am more informed religiously on many fronts and dont believe what i do out of just growing up that way (which is NOT a bad thing at all!), but because ive experienced them. lol im done repeating myself now. on to other things!

 

[medallionsnijme]

youre probably right in the overexaggeration. though the house is just weird. theres a room there that i cannot go in. hair on my arm stands up straight whenever im near it but i cant pray there either, ive tried praying my rosary and it just keeps getting interrupted or its very very difficult and its like every word is a struggle. soemthing else is interesting. when i was burning all the occult items, well, same day, anyways, i had some friends over who are pagan but will talk openly with me about Catholicism cos they were Catholic (i pray for them always too) and i was telling them about the basket of stuff and they asked if i had a picture of the woman and i said no. she doesnt believe in having her picture taken cos she believes itll steal her soul. they said that only people that practise black magic believe that. and that wouldnt suprise me just because shes very vindictive. if someone pisses her off enough or whatever shell wipe her hands and say theyre finished. doesnt seem very um loving to me! even if you claimed to be a white witch you theoretically wouldnt do that, i would think! sooo…yeah. its a stinky situation! though now that i think about it she has in her back room (its a sunroom off of her bedroom and i think thats her wiccan place) two pictures that i did (im an artist) one of my husband sleeping and the other one that i did when i couldnt get her out of my mind, which apparently looks like her (so someone said. this other person also said that it has a scar exactly where she has one…which i never knew about). (the picture was of a nude asian woman sitting under a waterfall)…just bizarre!! and it could be nothing, just i hope she doesnt use the pictures in her practices or something (though theyre on her walls… )

 

[EasterJoy]

lol yes, it is waaay off from my original thread, but i need to add in my two cents: please remember that Buddhism is considered the closest “sister-relgion” to Christianity.

Huh? By whom? Judaism gave us our Savior, and worships the God of Abraham. They are certainly our closest sibling. Likewise, Islam is not only monotheistic, but literally believes in the same God of Abraham.

I will agree with you on this much: While it is vital to maintain the truth that the Catholic Church is the one true church, it is worthwhile to appreciate the degree to which the Holy Spirit has chosen to enlighten those outside the Church, and even those outside Christianity. Even when this is to a seriously mitigated degree, the fidelity non-Christians show to that fraction of the truth they have received sometimes is to our shame. Sometimes I wonder if this may not be one reason they are allowed to receive it. We may be unfaithful, but God is always faithful. God never rests and never allows a stone to be unturned in his pursuit of souls. The demons are persistent, but next to God, they are total slackers.

 

[medallionsnijme]

yes, other than Judaism and islam, of course, it is considered a “sister” religion so far as other world religions go. it was a Catholic priest that said that in regards to his sharing his (our) faith and similarities with the Buddhist monks and their faith. it was quite interesting.

 

[holdencaulfield]

A point must be made however, that although Buddhists are peaceful people, they are still pagans, and thus their religion is intrinsically evil, although they may not know it or practice it like that.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

A point must be made however, that although Buddhists are peaceful people, they are still pagans, and thus their religion is intrinsically evil, although they may not know it or practice it like that.

From a broad perspective they would be considered “pagan” or “heathen”. Since they do not gather with the Lord, but scatter, then regrettably I have to agree that it is “intrinsically” evil because it is not from God.

Peace…

MW

 

[holdencaulfield]

From a broad perspective they would be considered “pagan” or “heathen”. Since they do not gather with the Lord, but scatter, then regrettably I have to agree that it is “intrinsically” evil because it is not from God.

Yes that was my point. They may not be evil on the surface, however when you dig deep into it, it is evil.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Yes that was my point. They may not be evil on the surface, however when you dig deep into it, it is evil.

In a way it hurts to admit that for me. I found much beauty in that faith. For me though, I eventually could not deny the reality of a Creator and the eternal soul. I don’t regret saying this - the philosophy of Buddhism is a very practical and pleasing way to live one’s life and helped me to see many things differently that I now see in a different light even as a Christian.

Peace…

MW

 

[holdencaulfield]

In a way it hurts to admit that for me. I found much beauty in that faith. For me though, I eventually could not deny the reality of a Creator and the eternal soul. I don’t regret saying this - the philosophy of Buddhism is a very practical and pleasing way to live one’s life and helped me to see many things differently that I now see in a different light even as a Christian.

In philosophy fine. However in religion. I would say no. For instance you could be a Confucius Christian, because it’s not a religion. Philosophy is fine, however pagan religions are not.

 

[Santarita]

youre probably right in the overexaggeration. though the house is just weird. theres a room there that i cannot go in. hair on my arm stands up straight whenever im near it but i cant pray there either, ive tried praying my rosary and it just keeps getting interrupted or its very very difficult and its like every word is a struggle. soemthing else is interesting. when i was burning all the occult items, well, same day, anyways, i had some friends over who are pagan but will talk openly with me about Catholicism cos they were Catholic (i pray for them always too) and i was telling them about the basket of stuff and they asked if i had a picture of the woman and i said no. she doesnt believe in having her picture taken cos she believes itll steal her soul. they said that only people that practise black magic believe that. and that wouldnt suprise me just because shes very vindictive. if someone pisses her off enough or whatever shell wipe her hands and say theyre finished. doesnt seem very um loving to me! even if you claimed to be a white witch you theoretically wouldnt do that, i would think! sooo…yeah. its a stinky situation! though now that i think about it she has in her back room (its a sunroom off of her bedroom and i think thats her wiccan place) two pictures that i did (im an artist) one of my husband sleeping and the other one that i did when i couldnt get her out of my mind, which apparently looks like her (so someone said. this other person also said that it has a scar exactly where she has one…which i never knew about). (the picture was of a nude asian woman sitting under a waterfall)…just bizarre!! and it could be nothing, just i hope she doesnt use the pictures in her practices or something (though theyre on her walls… )

My friend,
My advice would be don’t go near this woman or this house and if your husband insists on going there then pray to St Michael for his protection. I would sit him down and have a serious talk to him. Make it clear to him that it upsets you when he goes there, I think he should respect your feelings on the matter, whether or not he has any belief in God. Don’t let him poo-poo your worries and laugh it off. Its a serious matter and hes got to see that you mean business. I would insist he cuts off all contact with her, and don’t ever bring anything she has given you into your house. Burn them or give them to your priest to burn. Don’t worry if your husband thinks you are over reacting. Better to have him think that than end up possessed or something. It does happen, a friend of mines daughter is undergoing exorcism every day now and isn’t yet freed from the demons. She still goes to Mass, and the Sacraments, but is having an absolutley awful time.Its through people like this “witch” that evil spirits are brought inot our lives, and they don’t exactly need an invitation.

I wouldn’t go anywhere near this woman even if she was a member of my family never mind a far out friend. If you do meet her again and she comes out with things like "our under her protection"or whatever, look her in the eye and say straight out that you are under the protection of Jesus Christ. Take none of her nonsense. Pray hard for the Holy Spirit to help you.

I know a woman who met two supposed white witches during a dinner party in a friends house. The things they said to her destroyed her mental well being for years to come, telling her her sister would die (which she did) and that she would never have another child born to her (so she never enjoyed her next pregnancy worried she would lose the child) and now she thinks her house is haunted. Jesus brings us peace and joy and love. Anxiety, fear, mistrust, worry all come from the evil one. The message is clear, don’t let evil into your life.

 

[catheflower]

I read many of these posts, but not all.

I must say: STAY AWAY FROM HER!!! Please pray for her, too. You can say Spiritual Warfare prayers to break free from any evil you encountered. As for being under her protection, there are specific Spiritual Warfare prayers to prevent her from having any effect on you! Ask Saint Michael, Saint Benedict, and Saint Padre Pio to pray for your protection. Keep saying rosaries.

Don’t forget to pray for this woman and her family.

Please keep praying for your husband.

This woman has obviously received half-truths from the devil. Demons told her that you were pregnant, not that you might be pregnant. Evil half-truth!!!

I will pray for you and your husband.

 

[carpediem833]

I’m not a catholic so you can take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I think perhaps your fears are a little overexaggerated. Then again, I don’t really believe in demons and the suchlike. I know I have numerous pagan friends and I have never had a problem with anything they practise- to me it is no different from visiting the house of a Hindu friend.
By all means, don’t visit this lady if you’re going to be uncomfortable- no one will have a good time. But I think it’s a little crazy to suggest that most Wiccans have demons swirling about the premises or that they’re in commune with the devil.

Amen

 

[carpediem833]

So, I happened upon the forum and my wife’s posting by accident. But felt the need to make a statement on this whole affair…

Wicca is not black magic. It deals with the energies of nature and earth. Wiccans do not believe in heaven or health, demon or devil. It is based on helping and healing those around you; Protecting people, And respecting nature. I hardly see anything heretical about loving and protecting nature since the Lord gave it to us. If it makes them wrong simply because their beliefs differ than your own, or “Evil” as I have even seen some of you say then I think we are all truellly damned.

Please tell me when was the last time the Wiccan’s went on a crusade and burned thousands of Christians’ at the stake? Or when they sent their legions out to conquer our heathen Christian lands? (I mean Wiccans, not Muslims…)

I am a Christian, and I know my beliefs will differ with all of yours, but, I consider Buddhism, Wicca, and even Islam (I am an Iraq war veteran, so for me to say that I think means a lot) to be peaceful and beautiful. They are not wrong, evil, or horrible religions. They just simply are not yours.

Wiccan beliefs and practices have predated Christrianity and Judaism. Their people were also butchered by the Christians simply because they had different views. So I can kind of understand where her disdain for Christians comes from. Kind of like how some African Americans blame present day white men for the mistreatment of their ancestors. Yes, its misdirected hate. But rather than avoiding her like the plague, would it not be better to be near her and actually show her what Christians are really about?

Jesus surrounded himself with sinners and whores because those are the people his message of love, peace, and salvation was directed at. So to say never go there again and never speak with her again, how could that even REMOTELY echo the teachings of our Lord?