Morality of jobs and what am I supposed to DO for the rest of my days on this earth?

[mercygate]

jmcrae, I get the feeling that you, puzzleannie and mercygate have a somewhat limited understanding on the dynamics of modern business within a capitalist environment.

 

[Aramis]

I understand all this, but (at the moment) it is not **me **running the show, and giving jobs.

I am the one searching, and all I see are job positions in immorality. My question is, what do other Catholics do? What are we supposed to do?

I, and my father (who is a RC Deacon) both work for the government. I work for the school district, and he works federal civil service.

It’s a profitless option.

 

[davidv]

These ones?

Do you believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

I have been a hiring manager. If you asked me these questions during an interview, I would put you near the bottom of the list of potential candidates. This would not be because they aren’t important questions, but because my answers to them give you no insight into the job nor what responsibilities where involved. I would conclude that you were really not interested in the position I was offering.

 

[Magicsilence]

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae, I get the feeling that you, puzzleannie and mercygate have a somewhat limited understanding on the dynamics of modern business within a capitalist environment.

And I think you are a young pup who doesn’t have much experience of the working world.

I have been in the work force for 30 years, in a wide variety of job positions and industries - fast food (delivery, line cook, and cash), retail (cash), art gallery (management), advertising (agency work), sales (consumer), printing (both pre-press and press), secretarial, educational multimedia development, and currently I am working as a youth worker in a Church. I have worked for everything from multinational corporations with lovely plush carpeting in the offices, right down to a couple of guys who were making web sites out of a garage, with what I think must be the world’s coldest floor.

In my considerable experience, I have not met one single person who thought money was more important than ethics. Not one. Money is always important, of course - it’s the grease that keeps the wheels of life moving - but nobody was out to rob widows and orphans, or to manipulate people into buying things they didn’t really want to have.

PS: And just so you know - I think, of the bunch, the ad agency people were the most ethically conscious of all. Any kind of stealing and any kind of manipulation over and above informing the consumer of the existence of the product, and ensuring that he remembers the name of the product should he choose to want to buy it, would have gotten you bounced out the door on your head.

 

[Magicsilence]

I have been a hiring manager. If you asked me these questions during an interview, I would put you near the bottom of the list of potential candidates. This would not be because they aren’t important questions, but because my answers to them give you no insight into the job nor what responsibilities where involved. I would conclude that you were really not interested in the position I was offering.

But, what therefore are you putting first here?

I would be delighted in someone’s first questions were about the Holy Catholic Faith. Surely it is more important than a job?

 

[jmcrae]

But, what therefore are you putting first here?

I would be delighted in someone’s first questions were about the Holy Catholic Faith. Surely it is more important than a job?

The subject of a hiring interview is, in fact, the job for which the person hopes to be hired. There are places and times for evangelism.

Putting God first does not mean that He has to be dragged into every conversation, no matter how mundane.

 

[Magicsilence]

And I think you are a young pup who doesn’t have much experience of the working world.

You would be right, but that still doesn’t preclude my previous observation.

I have been in the work force for 30 years, in a wide variety of job positions and industries - fast food (delivery, line cook, and cash), retail (cash), art gallery (management), advertising (agency work), sales (consumer), printing (both pre-press and press), secretarial, educational multimedia development, and currently I am working as a youth worker in a Church. I have worked for everything from multinational corporations with lovely plush carpeting in the offices, right down to a couple of guys who were making web sites out of a garage, with what I think must be the world’s coldest floor.

And I am sure you have great experience; but while it is vast, it does not relate exactly to the line of work I was thinking of, which perhaps should have been made clearer in my OP, namely more managerial style work and running of subdivisions within SBU’s.

In my considerable experience, I have not met one single person who thought money was more important than ethics. Not one. Money is always important, of course - it’s the grease that keeps the wheels of life moving - but nobody was out to rob widows and orphans, or to manipulate people into buying things they didn’t really want to have.

Yet in the corporate world, this is what drives the wheels. Perhaps there is a significant culture difference between the U.K and the U.S.A.?

 

[davidv]

But, what therefore are you putting first here?

I would be delighted in someone’s first questions were about the Holy Catholic Faith. Surely it is more important than a job?

Maybe if you are in catechism class, but not if you are trying to match your skills and talents to a particular job. If you don’t have a job, how will you practice your faith in the best possible way. Maybe you will be the only person a future coworker will listen to and you be the only one that can lead him to Christ. Will you deny this opportunity because of all these “what if” senerios?

 

[jmcrae]

And I am sure you have great experience; but while it is vast, it does not relate exactly to the line of work I was thinking of, which perhaps should have been made clearer in my OP, namely more managerial style work and running of subdivisions within SBU’s.

What are "SBU"s?

Yet in the corporate world, this is what drives the wheels. Perhaps there is a significant culture difference between the U.K and the U.S.A.?

Maybe so, but I would have expected the USA to be more “capitalistic” than the UK? (I’m in Canada, by the way - we aren’t really known for being capitalistic, although in my particular region, we tend to favour the free market - unionism is frowned upon.)

 

[Magicsilence]

The subject of a hiring interview is, in fact, the job for which the person hopes to be hired. There are places and times for evangelism.

Putting God first does not mean that He has to be dragged into every conversation, no matter how mundane.

A ‘job’ is only a byproduct of life on this earth, whereas faith in Christ sustains our core being and is our purpose of existence.

Maybe I’m crazy for thinking that Christ should be our first and our last, even in business, and all related activities.

 

[Magicsilence]

Maybe if you are in catechism class, but not if you are trying to match your skills and talents to a particular job. If you don’t have a job, how will you practice your faith in the best possible way. Maybe you will be the only person a future coworker will listen to and you be the only one that can lead him to Christ. Will you deny this opportunity because of all these “what if” senerios?

In America (and the West), there is a firm division between your job and your personal life, including your faith, but I don’t think it is part of Tradition, or close to being spiritually healthy.

It is not the application of skills and talents that is the problem, or matching them with a job, but the fact that most jobs use them for the wrong purpose.

 

[Magicsilence]

What are "SBU"s?

Strategic business units. See here for a description (although it is fairly simplistic).

Maybe so, but I would have expected the USA to be more “capitalistic” than the UK? (I’m in Canada, by the way - we aren’t really known for being capitalistic, although in my particular region, we tend to favour the free market - unionism is frowned upon.)

Maybe residing in London has given me more upfront experience with massive businesses, and shaped my view?

 

[davidv]

A ‘job’ is only a byproduct of life on this earth, whereas faith in Christ sustains our core being and is our purpose of existence.

Maybe I’m crazy for thinking that Christ should be our first and our last, even in business, and all related activities.

You seem to have some strange ideas about priorities. Even if you are the pastor of a parish, it might be that the first thing, at a particular time, is to deal with is the broken pipe that’s flooding the bathroom. A paraphase of a quote attributed to St Fransis seems to be the opposite of what you seem to be saying: alway preach the gospel, if necessary use words.

 

[davidv]

In America (and the West), there is a firm division between your job and your personal life, including your faith, but I don’t think it is part of Tradition, or close to being spiritually healthy.

It is not the application of skills and talents that is the problem, or matching them with a job, but the fact that most jobs use them for the wrong purpose.

You know this how? As other posters have indicated you seem to be painting with too broad a brush.

I work for a large multinational company. I don’t wear my religion on my sleeve, nor do I hide it. With those I have established relationships, I can and do discussion faith issues.

 

[jmcrae]

In America (and the West), there is a firm division between your job and your personal life, including your faith, but I don’t think it is part of Tradition, or close to being spiritually healthy.

I don’t think I would want my job to dictate my personal life. I don’t even like job offers that promise vacations or housing as “perks” because I don’t like the idea of my boss telling me when and where to go on holidays, or where to live. I like having the freedom to make my own decisions about how I will live my life.

It is not the application of skills and talents that is the problem, or matching them with a job, but the fact that most jobs use them for the wrong purpose.

I don’t think this is true at all.

 

[jmcrae]

Strategic business units. See here for a description (although it is fairly simplistic).

Why did you choose to go into that field of business? It seems like a really strange choice, considering your prejudices against capitalism.

 

[Magicsilence]

You know this how? As other posters have indicated you seem to be painting with too broad a brush.

I work for a large multinational company.*** I don’t wear my religion on my sleeve***, nor do I hide it. With those I have established relationships, I can and do discussion faith issues.

Everything in moderation?

 

[Magicsilence]

Why did you choose to go into that field of business? It seems like a really strange choice, considering your prejudices against capitalism.

No prejudice, just listening to my faith.

And I chose that field, because 3 years ago, it seemed like the thing to do. I have since rediscovered my faith, and am now stuck with a very comprehensive understanding of business, but that includes a deep knowledge of business mission, which tends to be highly immoral.

 

[Magicsilence]

I, and my father (who is a RC Deacon) both work for the government. I work for the school district, and he works federal civil service.

It’s a profitless option.

Hi Aramis,

I have thought about this before, but the issue is really not profitability, but the morality (or lack of) that is intrinsic to the job.

I think government work, or education, or health, are areas within which there are far fewer moral obstacles.

Thank-you for the post!