Morality of Using Stem-Cell Cure

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larsegarots said:
God gave us science and intelligence. It stands to reason that God would want us to use the cells to better the world, rather than to throw those cells away.
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What if God never wanted those cells to be created in the first place?
 
You maintain this:

** It is always just to kill embryos for medicinal benefit. **

However then you say this:
larsegarots said:
No.
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In response to this: Suppose time travel is possible, would you permit scientists to travel back in time and harvest your stem cells thereby killing you?

This response is incompatible with the statement.
 
Newbie2 said:
They come with expiration dates stamped on them? šŸ˜‰
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Most frozen embryos are used within two or three years. They are typically kept as long as the couple continues to pay the storage fee. Itā€™s also the couples decision on whether the embryos should be destroyed or donated for research.
 
Pete said:
You maintain this: ** It is always just to kill embryos for medicinal benefit. **
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I never said that.
Pete said:
This response is incompatible with the statement.
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You are making a straw man argument.

I would not permit a scientist to go back in time a kill me.

Using an embryo that is going to be destroyed means there is no person to go back in time and kill. That embryo will never become a person. At worst, it is destroyed. At best, it can save lives. IMO, God would favor the latter.
 
larsegarots said:
You are making a straw man argument.

I would not permit a scientist to back in time a kill me.

Using an embryo that is going to be destroyed means there is no person to go back in time and kill. That embryo will never become a person. At worst, it is destroyed. At best, it can save lives.
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This is not true, the embryo may be adopted ect you cannot say. Therefore the original argument stands.
 
Pete said:
This is not true, the embryo may be adopted ect you cannot say. Therefore the original argument stands.
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That is not true. They are using embryos that are being discarded, not ones that may be used in the future for adoption.
 
larsegarots said:
That is not true. They are using embryos that are being discarded, not ones that may be used in the future for adoption.
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But they do not have to be discarded the government could pay to keep them frozen etc how can you say with 100% certainty that the embryos will be destroyed?

Their is a way to keep them alive it is the easy way out to let them be destroyed.
 
Pete said:
But they do not have to be discarded the government could pay to keep them frozen etc how can you say with 100% certainty that the embryos will be destroyed?
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Thatā€™s the way it works right now. You could introduce a bill such that the government could pay to keep them frozen, but that also might violate the patientā€™s rights. There would also be couples complaining that they have to pay for storage fees while other couples get the government to pay for the storage fees.
 
larsegarots said:
ā€¦ I do not believe that embryo is a human being.
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What is it then? A tree? A puppy? When does it become a human, in your opinion? 200 cells? 1000 cells?

And there are people who do not believe we ever landed on the moon does their un belief change the reality? No, No it does not ā€¦

How many cells do you have in your body? you are afterall just a collection of cells all woing various things and looking different depending upon source and functionā€¦ can you tell the difference [visually] between a heart cell and a kidney cell?

Your arguments are based upon rhetoric [words used to mask real meaning - like blob of cells, embryo, etc] and emotion - "I do not believe ā€¦ " as such they lack intellect as well as a since of morality ā€¦ IMHO
 
larsegarots said:
Yes, I think you are right. I stand corrected.

It doesnā€™t, however, change my stance, and I do not believe that embryo is a human being.
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Then what is it. Is it a plant or lower form of animal? No it is human as its DNA will prove. And that DNA is unique for each and every one of us.
 
YADA said:
Your arguments are based upon rhetoric [words used to mask real meaning - like blob of cells, embryo, etc] and emotion - "I do not believe ā€¦ " as such they lack intellect as well as a since of morality ā€¦ IMHO
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My arguments are based on reason. Humanā€™s ability to reason is what gives us intelligence. If we can use cells, that are about to be destroyed, to instead save lives - then it immoral to waste themā€¦ IMHO.
 
larsegarots said:
And using stem cells wouldnā€™t be killing anybody that would be born.

They arenā€™t embryos yet. They are cells waiting to be fertilized as fertilization clinics for couples that need assistance. The cells have surpassed their shelf life and are about to be thrown away. God would rather see us improve the lives of his creatures than throw the cells away.

The world is not black and white. Using the cells is very much different from using adult prisoners in China. I donā€™t think this comes close to opening that door.
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Three opinions that you are entitled to. But, since all promise seems to be in adult cells, why not spend the limited money and time where it does the most good, while also having the benefit of moral rightness?
 
po18guy said:
Three opinions that you are entitled to. But, since all promise seems to be in adult cells, why not spend the limited money and time where it does the most good, while also having the benefit of moral rightness?
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I would agree with you 100% if adult cells could do what embryonic cells could do. They are more limited, and thus, donā€™t have all the promise.
 
larsegarots said:
I would agree with you 100% if adult cells could do what embryonic cells could do. They are more limited, and thus, donā€™t have all the promise.
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But, the ā€œpromiseā€ of fetal stem cells may be a canard. Look at the results. Much more morally acceptable promise in the adult area.
 
larsegarots said:
I believe it is an embryo. It becomes human as it develops into a human and when God gives it a soul.
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When do you suppose that happens?
larsegarots said:
Most frozen embryos are used within two or three years. They are typically kept as long as the couple continues to pay the storage fee. Itā€™s also the couples decision on whether the embryos should be destroyed or donated for research.
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Hmmmm I thought what you wrote earlier implied that they have an expiration dateā€¦and were discarded based on that.

My understanding of cryostorage is that it is for quite a long whileā€¦years and years.
 
Newbie2 said:
My understanding of cryostorage is that it is for quite a long whileā€¦years and years.
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You are correct that they are capable of longer storage. I think there was a case in San Francisco of success after 12 years. And I didnā€™t mean expiration date like a gallon of milk, which is my fault for not being more clear.

What remains though, is that the typical time frame for storage is usually 2-3 years.
 
larsegarots said:
The research is relatively young. Shall we also give up the research to finding a cure for Aids or Cancer just because we canā€™t do it overnight?
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No, we abandon ***embryonic ***stem cell research because it is immoral.
 
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