More big problems for Church

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Yes, it is sad when people in the Church fail, and sin, and sin even more trying to hide it. But how is it a “Big problem for the Church”? It’s not like the Church is teaching, “Coverup is right”, 'Molestation is right", etc.

How about the Church in England? http://www.theweek.co.uk/91551/church-facing-two-years-of-abuse-revelations

How about the Jewish people? http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-co-abuse-jewish-institutions-20180206-story.html

Atheists? American Atheists terminates its president over sexual misconduct allegations

I am not (repeat NOT) saying, “oh look, everybody abuses, so it’s not so bad”.

But the thing is, for all the other groups (or any other group), the abuse by one person, or several persons, isn’t going to be judged as severely as “The Catholic Church”’. You won’t find posters saying, “Oh, another BIG PROBLEM for the Episcopal Church/ Jewish leaders/ for atheists etc.”

And that should make you think.

Why does the action of one person’s abuse, and even the reaction of several (we don’t know how many) people to 'keep it from being known" translate into “well, that’s a sad thing but we’re dealing” for other Christian groups, for the Jewish people, or even a “oh come on, he didn’t cheat because he was an ATHEIST”. . .

Why does abuse from a CATHOLIC (and/or coverup) only seem to be done BECAUSE the persons WERE Catholic, and thus directly reflect onto the CHURCH. . .

but not with any other group?

You tell me.
 
Christ’s Church is, rightly, held to a higher standard than purely human organizations. We are going through a great scandal and trial, the worst for the Church since the Reformation.
 
stpurl said:
Yes, it is sad when people in the Church fail, and sin, and sin even more trying to hide it. But how is it a “Big problem for the Church”? I
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Apparently thousands of priests and bishops knew that this man seduced seminarians, and remained silent. If that’s not a big problem for the Church, then Israel is not a big threat to Palestine.
 
Due to the actions of a criminal element in the church. It’s to be expected, this backlash
 
The criminal element that was perpetrating these horrendous crimes.

It’s now time for the Catholic Church to deal with this at all levels
 
Roseeurekacross said:
The criminal element that was perpetrating these horrendous crimes.

It’s now time for the Catholic Church to deal with this at all levels
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The scandal is not the fault of those people – however scarlet their sins are. The scandal is the fault of the people who looked away and did nothing, the fault of the people who MADE these people priests and bishops, the fault of the people who did not tell what they knew, the fault of the people who “protected the organization” instead of protecting the vulnerable.
 
And? Still has nothing to do with what the Church actually teaches, or WHO (hint, it’s Jesus) our faith is actually about.

It would be like us pointing a finger at some atheist like Stalin and saying, “Look at all the bad things he and his underlings did. Atheists are wicked bad people”. . .and you’d be saying, “But look at all the atheists out there in Russia who are perfectly fine and good, how can you judge the actions of a few people in power and use those to claim that ALL of a group are bad?” Or to say “More big problems for Russia” as though because some in the Russian GOVERNMENT cause problems, it’s the entire Russian people at fault?"
 
No, it’s not.
But you know what? You were EXACTLY the person I knew who would try to claim exactly that. Thanks for proving my point.
 
It’s a problem for the sinners. But it’s a problem for all humanity, not simply 'the Catholic Church". That’s the big issue here.

What about abortion, fornication, murder, theft, lying, cheating, stealing? Every one of those things has been ‘done’ by members of the Church, including members of the clergy and religious, sometimes on a huge scale. There have been coverups regarding those things as well. I don’t notice people saying those are 'big problems for the Catholic Church" though. Only this ‘pedophilia’ scandal. Why do you think that is?
 
What pedophilia scandal? The scandal here is not one action taken 50 years ago, but thousands of actions this cardinal has taken with adults (often seminarians) over decades – and the system that knew about this and looked the other way.
 
stpurl said:
And? Still has nothing to do with what the Church actually teaches, or WHO (hint, it’s Jesus) our faith is actually about.

It would be like us pointing a finger at some atheist like Stalin and saying, “Look at all the bad things he and his underlings did. Atheists are wicked bad people”
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So what more than a few Christian radio hosts do 😉
. . .and you’d be saying, “But look at all the atheists out there in Russia who are perfectly fine and good, how can you judge the actions of a few people in power and use those to claim that ALL of a group are bad?” Or to say “More big problems for Russia” as though because some in the Russian GOVERNMENT cause problems, it’s the entire Russian people at fault?"
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You are absolutely correct that it’s not fair to paint a group of people with a broad brush based on what a portion of the group did. But in your post that I replied to you lamented that other groups who have also had sex scandals have not faced the same scrutiny that the Catholic Church has. Your church had the misfortune of being the first to get an in-depth look at its extended history of covering up its actions, to the point where not only did it shelter its guilty it put them into positions to act again and again. It’s not to say that the Church somehow has a much higher percentage of assaulters than other organizations, but that until recently its actions led to further harm that was very preventable.

We also have to take into consideration that this is not even the only scandal the Church has been involved in over the past century. There is a reason why – at least for now – it has lost the benefit of the doubt.

On a side note, the atheist article you linked to shows American Atheists taking action soon after the allegations surfaced. As I said before, it’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up. In that particular instance there was no cover-up.
 
Actually, I wasn’t lamenting that other groups haven’t faced the same scrutiny. As far as I’m concerned, any incidence of abuse is ‘one too many’. I don’t think that we’re getting ‘unfairly picked on’.

What is defined today as ‘coverup’ was defined, years ago, as ‘shielding the innocent’. Now again, I’m perfectly on board with the current definition for today, but as with for example using the term ‘gay’ to mean ‘homosexual’ when reading a novel from 1930, I am ‘against’ retroactively changing the ‘older’ definition to today’s.

Whether one agrees again with the ‘old way’, the fact remains that say just as allowing children to ‘work’ a century or more ago was seen as normal behavior with, to many, positive results for the child’s family, what was ‘normal behavior’ with what was considered positive results for the victim THEN was just that, normal behavior.

Again, when it comes to actions that took place ‘after the fact’, I’m definitely for ‘throwing the book’, but when you’re talking about actions that took place ‘before the fact’ I think one has to take into consideration the entire context, including the perception of the actions not just ‘in the Catholic Church’ but in society. And to hold all responsible. If actions from the 1970s can be prosecuted ‘in the Church’, then prosecute EVERY person or group where it happened (and you can bet it happened everywhere) and be upfront, say that you’re holding people to a law that didn’t exist then because it exists now.
 
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