More Catholic schools closing across US

[vern_humphrey]

God save all here.

Vern,
Wow! Could that actually work? Do you know of any cases where this has actually been put into practice? I really like the idea. It encompasses so many elements Catholics believe in–subsidiarity (keeping it local and decentralized), cooperation, building community ties, dignifying each person’s contributions, strengthening families, teaching the faith, saving money, continuing one’s own education, etc., etc.

I love it!

OK, now what’s the downside?

Sure it can work – DODEA (the Department of Defense Education Activity, which runs all the public schools on military bases, world-wide) has such a system. We have such a system here in Arkansas, called The Arkansas Virtual Academy – but only 800 students can enroll each year (teacher’s unions don’t like it.)

The company I worked for developed the BSEP (Basic Skills in Education Program) for people in the military who were deficient in reading, writing, math and so on.

I even developed courses for my youngest daughter, back around 1979 and later, on my old TRS-80 computer.

The downside is startup cost – a single course, lasting half a year, would cost about $500,000 to develop. However, if you had ten or twenty thousand children to take it, that would just about equal the cost of a text book. And the next year, there would be $0 in development costs, and only administrative costs would apply.

There is a standard decision-making algorythm:

1. Lead time. If we have to teach the first class tomorrow, obviously we can only do that with a live instructor. But for a project like this, we can pick any completion date that is convenient for us.
2. Student population. As I said, it would take $500,000 to develop a half-year course. With one student, that would be cost-prohibitive – but with 10,000 students it would be only $50 apiece (and a full year, 5 courses per semester, would cost $500 in development costs.) Of course, we wouldn’t have to recoup all development costs in the first year – we could spread it out over 5 years, and get a year of schooling for $50 a pupil.
3. Population density – if we have small numbers of students at different locations (think kids in the bush in Alaska), then the live teacher cost is prohibitive, and this way is comparatively more cost-effective.
4. Subject matter stability – here, we’re on firm ground. Two plus two has equaled four for a looooooong time, and will continue to equal four for a looooooong time. So we can use the course over and over and over.

Now, there is cost beyond development cost – the kids need computers and internet access (but most homes already have that). We have to enroll the students and keep their records. And we need to monitor and maintain the course, so if the student population changes and it doesn’t teach as well as it used to, we know that and can fix it.

 

[goofyjim]

But what should the Bishops do? How do you convince people that they need to dig a little deeper? Good old Catholic guilt doesn’t seem to do it anymore.

The only ones that need to dig deeper are the ones sending their children to Catholic schools. It’s bad enough I, as a single person, pay school taxes when I have no children. But to say dig deeper and then cover the cost of Catholic schools when I have no children to attend? Really.

 

[vern_humphrey]

The only ones that need to dig deeper are the ones sending their children to Catholic schools. It’s bad enough I, as a single person, pay school taxes when I have no children. But to say dig deeper and then cover the cost of Catholic schools when I have no children to attend? Really.

I have no children in school and haven’t had for nearly 15 years. But I don’t begrudge paying school taxes – and I would gladly respond if the Bishop called for special collections for Catholic schools – even though our community here is too small to have a school.

Now think about what you wrote, Jim – in other threads you talk about socialized healthcare, and accuse others of being unwilling to pay taxes. Maybe you should look in the mirror the next time you make an accusation like that.

 

[goofyjim]

I have no children in school and haven’t had for nearly 15 years. But I don’t begrudge paying school taxes – and I would gladly respond if the Bishop called for special collections for Catholic schools – even though our community here is too small to have a school.

Now think about what you wrote, Jim – in other threads you talk about socialized healthcare, and accuse others of being unwilling to pay taxes. Maybe you should look in the mirror the next time you make an accusation like that.

And look what I have written. If we guarantee education we should guarantee healthcare. The Church has called for it. I’m growing sick of these forums. I’m going to try and take a year off.

 

[vern_humphrey]

And look what I have written. If we guarantee education we should guarantee healthcare. The Church has called for it. I’m growing sick of these forums. I’m going to try and take a year off.

Exercise caution upon departure to avoid being impacted posteriorily by the protuberance on the portal.

 

[goofyjim]

Exercise caution upon departure to avoid being impacted posteriorily by the protuberance on the portal.

Haha. If I am going to dig deeper into my pocket for donations to Catholic schools I want a direct dollar for dollar effect against any school taxes paid. That way I would get the same benefit of a voucher system that those with chiildren have. See the married people wanth the vouchers so they are not double taxed. But we single people don’t get that option. So unless a plan is implemented I just can’t dig any deeper. I do more than tithe so I carry my share. But it just doesn’t go to organized charity. It goes to my neighbor where I can’t possibly take a tax deduction and have the government subsidize it.

 

[kristie_m]

God save all here.

Kristie,
I taught high school for twelve years. Unless you employ a ghost writer for your posts, you can take my word that your language ability is more than adequate for what you need to homeschool your kids. You write better than 50% of all college graduates, I would venture to say.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Perhaps my mother’s influence will have been put to good use. I sent out a letter to the bishop earlier this week requesting that he look into the program in Witchita to see if it would be a viable option for this diocese.

 

[JimG]

To elaborate on what buffalo said in post #14, read the section from this report report (beginning on page 22) entitled “Wichita—Making Catholic Schools Affordable Again.”
It is not impossible. Eliminate tuition.

 

[lak611]

Long gone are the “good old days” when a large national cohort of nuns selflessly devoted their professional lives to teaching for little or no remuneration. While many parochial school teachers are not paid as much as public school teachers, they are still paid employees and cost a lot of money…

That is the reason why Catholic schools are so expensive. In order to make Catholic schools affordable again, we need more vocations to the religious life.

 

[KathleenElsie]

The only ones that need to dig deeper are the ones sending their children to Catholic schools. It’s bad enough I, as a single person, pay school taxes when I have no children. But to say dig deeper and then cover the cost of Catholic schools when I have no children to attend? Really.

Who paid for your education? Taxpayers including those that home-school, have no children, have lots of children, send their children to private schools, send their children to religious schools and those that are are young or elderly.

My family home-schools and has for two generations. Prior to that the children were in Catholic schools. 1% of all wages and high school taxes not to mention the state and federal money thrown at a failing system every year goes to what we do not use. We spend (at our choice) about $300 per year per child in the family for books, enhancements and extra educational opportunities.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Haha. If I am going to dig deeper into my pocket for donations to Catholic schools I want a direct dollar for dollar effect against any school taxes paid.

Ah, so you are not willing to pay for charity without a direct dollar for dollar benefit in taxes?

Suppose I said I am willing to pay for socialized healthcare – but only if I get a dollar-for-dollar benefit?

That way I would get the same benefit of a voucher system that those with chiildren have. See the married people wanth the vouchers so they are not double taxed. But we single people don’t get that option. So unless a plan is implemented I just can’t dig any deeper. I do more than tithe so I carry my share. But it just doesn’t go to organized charity. It goes to my neighbor where I can’t possibly take a tax deduction and have the government subsidize it.

Kinda like us healthy people are taxed for health benefits we don’t use, right?

 

[goofyjim]

Ah, so you are not willing to pay for charity without a direct dollar for dollar benefit in taxes?

Suppose I said I am willing to pay for socialized healthcare – but only if I get a dollar-for-dollar benefit?

Kinda like us healthy people are taxed for health benefits we don’t use, right?

And you’re missing the point. The married couples want to offset their children’s private schooling with a tax break or school vouchers. We single individuals should get the same sort of break for donating to a private school. If the parents can’t do both neither can those with no children.

 

[vern_humphrey]

And you’re missing the point. The married couples want to offset their children’s private schooling with a tax break or school vouchers. We single individuals should get the same sort of break for donating to a private school. If the parents can’t do both neither can those with no children.

You **do **get such a break – most such schools are non-profit organizations, and you can deduct your contributions to them, just as you can to any other charity.

Ironically, the parents cannot deduct the tuition payments they make.

 

[goofyjim]

You **do **get such a break – most such schools are non-profit organizations, and you can deduct your contributions to them, just as you can to any other charity.

Ironically, the parents cannot deduct the tuition payments they make.

Uh I should be get out of paying that regressive loacla school tax as well. I am all for a voucher system to direct the money towards better schools. They should eliminate taxes for the public schols in favor of a voucher system to direct donations from the people who don’t have children.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Uh I should be get out of paying that regressive loacla school tax as well. I am all for a voucher system to direct the money towards better schools. They should eliminate taxes for the public schols in favor of a voucher system to direct donations from the people who don’t have children.

Are you willing to pay for socialized medicine with taxes placed only on the sick, with donations from other people?

 

[goofyjim]

Are you willing to pay for socialized medicine with taxes placed only on the sick, with donations from other people?

Fine. I totally withdraw any support of the school voucher program. If I am expected to “dig deeper” and pay school taxes at the same time so can everyone else.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Fine. I totally withdraw any support of the school voucher program. If I am expected to “dig deeper” and pay school taxes at the same time so can everyone else.

So you are only for taxes that benefit yourself? Dollar for dollar, I think you said?

 

[rlg94086]

Fine. I totally withdraw any support of the school voucher program. If I am expected to “dig deeper” and pay school taxes at the same time so can everyone else.

What are you talking about goofyjim? Voucher programs don’t require new taxes - they just change the way the funds are used.

Btw…do you own any real estate? If not, then you probably pay very, very little in “school taxes.” Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the primary source of school funds is property tax. A relatively small amount comes from income taxes.

 

[goofyjim]

What are you talking about goofyjim? Voucher programs don’t require new taxes - they just change the way the funds are used.

Btw…do you own any real estate? If not, then you probably pay very, very little in “school taxes.” Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the primary source of school funds is property tax. A relatively small amount comes from income taxes.

Not where I live. There is an income tax for the schools themselves. All I’m saying is that parents want the burden of funding the public schools lifted so they can send their children to a private school and actually afford it better. So those without children should be able to have the burden lifted as well so they can have more to donate to the private schools. This isn’t hard to understand. It’s not rocket science.

 

[goofyjim]

So you are only for taxes that benefit yourself? Dollar for dollar, I think you said?

Sounds like that goes along with your principles.