More Catholic schools closing across US

[vern_humphrey]

Sounds like that goes along with your principles.

Another nasty comment.

When did I reject the idea of helping those who need help?

Where I and some others differ is I want to help them, while others want to throw money at the problem – often spending even more on programs that have not only failed, but proven to be counterproductive.

Some want couch potato “charity” – where they sit on the couch, eat chipd and drink beer and cheer for the program of their choice, but do nothing themselves to move the ball.

I think we should play in the game – give of ourselves, and really move the ball. And the best way to move the poverty ball is to educate the children.

 

[goofyjim]

Another nasty comment.

When did I reject the idea of helping those who need help?

Where I and some others differ is I want to help them, while others want to throw money at the problem – often spending even more on programs that have not only failed, but proven to be counterproductive.

Some want couch potato “charity” – where they sit on the couch, eat chipd and drink beer and cheer for the program of their choice, but do nothing themselves to move the ball.

I think we should play in the game – give of ourselves, and really move the ball. And the best way to move the poverty ball is to educate the children.

I think we should encourage home schooling to replace the whole system. That way every parent educates their own child and those with no children go about their business.

 

[rlg94086]

Not where I live. There is an income tax for the schools themselves. All I’m saying is that parents want the burden of funding the public schools lifted so they can send their children to a private school and actually afford it better. So those without children should be able to have the burden lifted as well so they can have more to donate to the private schools. This isn’t hard to understand. It’s not rocket science.

Well, thanks for “charitably” explaining it to me. Now, I know what you were saying.

The fact is that the reason most people support voucher systems is that it enables families who can’t afford private schools. The fact that families who can afford private schools are also benefitted by a universal program, shouldn’t lead you to penalize those who can’t.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I think we should encourage home schooling to replace the whole system. That way every parent educates their own child and those with no children go about their business.

And would you say we should encourage self-paid healthcare to replace the whole system? That way everyone pays his own medical bills and those with no medical problems go about their business?

 

[goofyjim]

And would you say we should encourage self-paid healthcare to replace the whole system? That way everyone pays his own medical bills and those with no medical problems go about their business?

By all means. If a catastrophic illness hits the community pitches in to help rather than the government. You have proposed such yourself. Hey while we’re at it do away with the requirement for auto insurance. If "'ve never had an accident because I am a safe driver why should I keep on paying out involuntarily?

 

[vern_humphrey]

By all means. If a catastrophic illness hits the community pitches in to help rather than the government. You have proposed such yourself. Hey while we’re at it do away with the requirement for auto insurance. If "'ve never had an accident because I am a safe driver why should I keep on paying out involuntarily?

You come up with some very strange ideas, Jim.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I think we should encourage home schooling to replace the whole system. That way every parent educates their own child and those with no children go about their business.

If you use any service, business, entertainment form and on and on you have benefited from the public or private educational systems. There would be no medical personal or other professionals that provide you with the necessities of life if they were not educated enough to go on to higher education. So live with it.

The cost of social services would go way up. The poor would get poorer and the rich would be the majority of those to achieve anything.

I am not defending the system. We don’t use it since we home school. But not everyone can afford to stay at home and not everyone is capable of teaching their children (I believe that most are but not all).

Social responsibility comes with a cost. Our costs might be toooo hight at this moment but nothing is free.

 

[goofyjim]

If you use any service, business, entertainment form and on and on you have benefited from the public or private educational systems. There would be no medical personal or other professionals that provide you with the necessities of life if they were not educated enough to go on to higher education. So live with it.

The cost of social services would go way up. The poor would get poorer and the rich would be the majority of those to achieve anything.

I am not defending the system. We don’t use it since we home school. But not everyone can afford to stay at home and not everyone is capable of teaching their children (I believe that most are but not all).

Social responsibility comes with a cost. Our costs might be toooo hight at this moment but nothing is free.

Then let parents pay school taxes as well as the single person. If they want to send their children to a private school they have to sacrifice a few things to send them there. I already tithe. How much more is there to give to the schools? I do have bills to pay myself.

 

[buffalo]

Then let parents pay school taxes as well as the single person. If they want to send their children to a private school they have to sacrifice a few things to send them there. I already tithe. How much more is there to give to the schools? I do have bills to pay myself.

Give what you can.

If we don’t invest in our Catholic childrens formation who will?

 

[goofyjim]

Give what you can.

If we don’t invest in our Catholic childrens formation who will?

Considering I am on disability which makes it preposterous to meet expenses as is, I have very little to give. I tithe but it doesn’t necessarily go to the schools. Where it goes is up to me.

 

[Dai_Yoshida]

Personally, I am very disappointed by Catholic education in general. Particularly in the area of faith formation. This is not to say that there aren’t good Catholic educators out there. But as long as L.A. archdiocese and their religious education congress dictates the future of catechist formation I wouldn’t feel a strong need to support the modern Catholic School system. So I’m not particularly dismayed by the school closings.

After trying several schools, I currently have my children in secular charter school and send them to religious education class at my (very traditional) parish. I’m not perfectly satisfied with this arrangement but I think it’s infinitely better than having my children subjected to New Age Modernist Catholicism prevalent in many Catholic schools these days. At least I have far more control over what my children are taught.

 

[buffalo]

Personally, I am very disappointed by Catholic education in general. Particularly in the area of faith formation. This is not to say that there aren’t good Catholic educators out there. But as long as L.A. archdiocese and their religious education congress dictates the future of catechist formation I wouldn’t feel a strong need to support the modern Catholic School system. So I’m not particularly dismayed by the school closings.

After trying several schools, I currently have my children in secular charter school and send them to religious education class at my (very traditional) parish. I’m not perfectly satisfied with this arrangement but I think it’s infinitely better than having my children subjected to New Age Modernist Catholicism prevalent in many Catholic schools these days. At least I have far more control over what my children are taught.

Agreed! As someone more famous than I said ( I think Bishop Sheen) “the only thing worse than a public school is a bad Catholic one.”

 

[Scoobyshme]

Many “Catholic” schools need to be closed. I can tell you about the one in my hometown that is “Catholic” in name only. We only have about 3% of the population that is Catholic. Most of the students are Protestant, and it’s basically a private school for rich kids. $800/month for one student! They are reluctant to talk about Catholic doctrine, although they do have a religion class. There have been instances where Protestants were teaching religion in the school, as well as other subjects. And the richer the parents, the more the child was allowed to get away with. It needs to be closed (but it won’t…too much private money going into it).

The real problem has been that since Vatican II, vocations have decreased. Before Vatican II, many Catholic schools had nuns/sisters who took the vow of poverty doing the teaching. Now, the Church has to hire lay teachers with degrees, etc., to do the teaching. They have to pay a competetive salary. This means you either raise the tuition and give greatest emphasis to having “happy” students and parents, or you find the money elsewhere and teach what should be taught, at all levels. Make it a REAL Catholic school. Protestants should not be excused from having to be exposed to Catholic doctrine in class and on tests. Money should not be the driving force.

Bottom line: Fix 'em and make 'em real Catholic schools, or close 'em down.

I think home schooling is eventually going to catch on big time. It’s the only thing that make sense. When St. Benedict was getting started, he stopped trying to fix Roman society, etc. He basically said, “The hell with it.” (No, not literally, but for all practical purposes.) He went out and his intention was just to serve God. Others joined him and they built monasteries throughout Europe. That’s why many of the towns and cities are located where they are. There were an enormous number of monasteries built! The monasteries of our day will be the homeschools, where students will learn how to be real, faithful Catholics.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Our parish has a good school. Our bishop is pushing for strengthening our Catholic schools. Unfortunately, our parish does not recognize the need of strengthening our good school to keep it viable long-term. As a member of the parish council I was advocating setting up an endowment to help secure the future of our Catholic school since the costs of supporting one continues to rise. I look around and I see fellow parents that have job descriptions such as “business owner” and it is no wonder they can afford the tuition. I have a good job as well where my wife does not need to work and we can afford to send our children to Catholic school. But I would like to see Catholic schools affordable for everyone. Our pastor says our school is doing fine and seems to advocate increasing the CCD program instead of strenghthening the school. The bishop has implemented the “Faith in Our Future” campaign to help our schools. Our parish is not in debt so our priest doesn’t see the school as a big need right now. But with declining enrollment due to continued rising tuition costs, only those with higher incomes can afford it. Our school isn’t fine. I would feel better about it if dual-income households as well as those struggling to make ends meet could afford it. Then perhaps our school would be doing fine.

 

[buffalo]

Our parish has a good school. Our bishop is pushing for strengthening our Catholic schools. Unfortunately, our parish does not recognize the need of strengthening our good school to keep it viable long-term. As a member of the parish council I was advocating setting up an endowment to help secure the future of our Catholic school since the costs of supporting one continues to rise. I look around and I see fellow parents that have job descriptions such as “business owner” and it is no wonder they can afford the tuition. I have a good job as well where my wife does not need to work and we can afford to send our children to Catholic school. But I would like to see Catholic schools affordable for everyone. Our pastor says our school is doing fine and seems to advocate increasing the CCD program instead of strenghthening the school. The bishop has implemented the “Faith in Our Future” campaign to help our schools. Our parish is not in debt so our priest doesn’t see the school as a big need right now. But with declining enrollment due to continued rising tuition costs, only those with higher incomes can afford it. Our school isn’t fine. I would feel better about it if dual-income households as well as those struggling to make ends meet could afford it. Then perhaps our school would be doing fine.

Try and move them to a needs based tuition model instead of a cost based one.

 

[markol91784]

At a time when Christian schools are flourishing and Muslims have started a school planting program in the US.

The economy does not seem to be affecting Christian schools or Muslim schools. I think that is an excuse to deny the collapse of the Catholic church and Catholic belief in the US.

I agree that the economy being bad is not a real issue and the real issue is a lack of solid Catholic belief. I hate to be the only one on this thread to bring this up but Catholic schools are not making good Catholics they make ex-Catholics. I went to a Catholic school for 12 years and after I graduated from high school I never went back to church for 5 to six years and when I came back I had to unlearn all that I learned at a Catholic school about my Faith. I was taught that
1.) masturbation was acceptable
2.) the Bible was a book of stories and not neccessarily true
3.)you should not have sex because you might get a disease
4.) the only reason for marraige is to have a certificate in times on trouble
5.) the inquisition was a horendous atrocity where the Church brutally murdered and torurted millions of people (the exact analogy was Mel Brooks History of the World’s portrayal.
6.) we evolved from monkey and we developed reason because we evolved a thumb
7.) we should call God he, she, it because we cannot put gender qualifications on God
8.) all religions are good and everyone goes to Heaven regardless of anything
9.) the only mortal sins are murder and stealing cars

I am sure many more horrible things were taught but forunately I do not remember any of them. About the only thing I remember that was true was something about the Eucharist and consecration. That was the extant of my experience in the Catholic School system. I know many other people who went to Catholic schools who had the same experience and do not attend church now either. I have talked to many people who sent their children to Catholic schools and they have had the same experience and their children do not go to Church. Even worse, I have met people who take their sons to strip clubs on home building mission trips put on by Catholic schools and think this is good wholesome behavior and were shocked that I thaught anything was wrong with this. Given, my experience is in a limited geographical area and maybe these problems do not exist elsewhere. And I will admit that I received a great secular education, but that is not the point of Catholic schools. Catholic schools should teach the faith maybe if they got back to this God would bless the schools and they would flourish again.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I agree that the economy being bad is not a real issue and the real issue is a lack of solid Catholic belief. I hate to be the only one on this thread to bring this up but Catholic schools are not making good Catholics they make ex-Catholics. I went to a Catholic school for 12 years and after I graduated from high school I never went back to church for 5 to six years and when I came back I had to unlearn all that I learned at a Catholic school about my Faith. I was taught that
1.) masturbation was acceptable
2.) the Bible was a book of stories and not neccessarily true
3.)you should not have sex because you might get a disease
4.) the only reason for marraige is to have a certificate in times on trouble
5.) the inquisition was a horendous atrocity where the Church brutally murdered and torurted millions of people (the exact analogy was Mel Brooks History of the World’s portrayal.
6.) we evolved from monkey and we developed reason because we evolved a thumb
7.) we should call God he, she, it because we cannot put gender qualifications on God
8.) all religions are good and everyone goes to Heaven regardless of anything
9.) the only mortal sins are murder and stealing cars

I am sure many more horrible things were taught but forunately I do not remember any of them. About the only thing I remember that was true was something about the Eucharist and consecration. That was the extant of my experience in the Catholic School system. I know many other people who went to Catholic schools who had the same experience and do not attend church now either. I have talked to many people who sent their children to Catholic schools and they have had the same experience and their children do not go to Church. Even worse, I have met people who take their sons to strip clubs on home building mission trips put on by Catholic schools and think this is good wholesome behavior and were shocked that I thaught anything was wrong with this. Given, my experience is in a limited geographical area and maybe these problems do not exist elsewhere. And I will admit that I received a great secular education, but that is not the point of Catholic schools. Catholic schools should teach the faith maybe if they got back to this God would bless the schools and they would flourish again.

Welcome home to Holy Mother church. Welcome to CAF also.

It is sad that many of the teachers of the faith do not understand what the Holy Catholic Church actually believes . These teachers IMHO are the root of many of the abuses we see everyday. They are also IMHO the reason many use to not attend Mass. We need to pray for those that are teaching things not Catholic to our Catholic children and RCIA candidates.

 

[NReily]

This is why I have dreamed about the idea of creating some sort of non-profit/watchdog group for the Catholic School/University System. One of the main issues I think that is preventing change and improvement in the system is that the Church at large does not have a clear idea at how the system is doing. The Church is a big institution, and can have a bureaucratic aspect to it. Bishops and other Diocesan officials I doubt have enough time or resources to constantly monitor what’s going on with the system. So I would love to see a group that could make a large database on every school in the system. This database would be a source to see an individual evaluation on every single school/university with a standard and extensive form of criteria for all areas of the school, crafted by a large number of Catholic Educators and Bishops.

I would also like to see some sort of examination and survey created that would see what student’s in the institutions are actually learning, specifically with the Catholic Faith. This would be an examination that would mix fact based questions with response based questions that would allow students to show their understanding of the Faith. Then with it have an extensive survey section so schools can get an idea if their student’s lives are actually being impacted by this education and where to improve in general.

Unfortunately, this right now can only be a dream as I am an 18 yr. old broke junior in college.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I have to ask. How many young people that graduated at the top of their public school class in high school have you seen flunk out because of the inability to do the work? How much do you think your costs are inflated to pay for those that can’t or won’t do the work necessary to graduate?

In 1991 the estimate was around 42% of those public school graduates that entered higher education institutions never made it to graduation. Many of those given scholarships never even attended classes. Scholarships are based in many cases on income and not on ability or desire for an education. This leaves less money for those that want an education and can do the work.

 

[Holly3278]

How very sad. If my children can’t go to a Catholic school when I have children, they will be home schooled. I refuse to allow my children to go to a public school and be taught the garbage that they teach there.