More tom cruise weirdness

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AlanFromWichita:
That’s pretty bad. Maybe Cruise did himself a favor by not being very articulate about what he really thinks! :whacky:
OK, so this scientology doesn’t sound like something I want to pursue any time soon.
Still, regarding the issue of medications masking rather than healing, I believe there is some truth to that. Just because a point is poorly argued doesn’t mean it’s invalid.
Oh, you said what “happened” to Cruise? What did happen to him? I knew nothing about him before I read the interview on Drudge report. I really don’t watch tv hardly at all. Alan
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I don’t disagree that meds sometimes can mask rather than heal; I just feel that to totally reject all forms of medicine because you are ordered to, can be deadly. (Not scientology, but think: Andrea Yates as has been suggested).
The problem with Tom Cruise is that he is basically so utterly brainwashed by the scientology “therapy”(so called), that he is falling apart before our eyes.He had several actresses interviewed for his new film; Katie Holmes got the part because she was the only one who did not refuse to undergo scientology lessons/treatment, etc. Several others made a fast exit. I can’t see this very talented actor’s career going anywhere but down, if he is going to insist that everyone he works with join in.
One of the main reasons for the split w/Nicole Kidman was she refused to have their children put into the $ci “schools”, which teach Hubbard & only Hubbard…(THere are also stories of child abuse–check links from xenu.net/ )
 
Prescription medication can help with symptoms, but is not going to cure the problem. The cure is, in fact, spiritual.

Praying and seeing a priest won’t cure the problem, either. It may manage the symptoms but for some prescription medication is a God send. For those of you who believe it’s a magic happy pill its not. In fact there are plenty of unpleasent side effects such as: weight gain and a severely decreased libido. For some the side effects are worth the effort to FUNCTION normally. Dealing with mental illness is a struggle and there is no cure for it. I would bet, too, those who suffer from anxiety and depression can remember being that way from the beginning. As for Tommy Cruise, he sounds like a typical Hollywood brat. His opinion and his Scientology is worth 0 in my book.
 
Would someone tell me a web site I could go to and read about this Scientology theory?

Kelly
JMJ
 
Kelly H.:
Would someone tell me a web site I could go to and read about this Scientology theory?
Kelly
JMJ
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Try this one: xenu.net/

This site is very complete…The man who owns it has all kinds of links to other sites as well. He has a weird sense of humor–very sarcastic; but he has done a very impressive job of compilinf info, together w/links mentioned.
There are a lot of sites that expose scientology, but this one can take you to them, as well as listing some emails, etc, from scientologists. (Not surprisingly, they don’t like him much…)
 
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AlanFromWichita:
Cruise has some good points.

He did a lousy job of making them because he just kept repeating them instead of actually explaining anything or backing himself up.

There are “mental illnesses” characterized by pathology, such as mental retardation, brain damage from trauma, alzheimers, etc.

Then there are “mental illnesses” that are characterized by externally observable behavioral criteria, such as various types of psychosis.

The second set, I personally believe, are not caused by a “chemical imbalance” at all, except maybe in some weird cases. Now there may be a chemical imbalance as a result of a psychosis, and that may cause additional symptoms but Cruise has one thing right. “Chemical imbalance” is a bullsh*t term, used to try to pretend there’s a “physical” explanation to a spiritual, emotional, and mental problem.

Prescription medication can help with symptoms, but is not going to cure the problem. The cure is, in fact, spiritual. The Holy Spirit can heal these people and repair a lifetime of psychological damage. Drugs cannot. Drugs can help reduce symptoms and help restore important functions, such as helping the patient get sleep which a manic, for example, tend to lack to the point that it prohibits healing.

In other words, the drugs may enable healing but they don’t bring it about. Cruise calls them a “mask” which might sound a bit unfair, but really not so far off. Yes, when the symptoms are that you compusively talk a mile a minute and get no sleep, drugs can help slow down the mind to get some sleep and to relieve the symptom of “pressured speech.” You could call that a mask, or you could call it a cast that helps hold things in place.

What Cruise is right about is that the medicine does not fix the problem. I have no idea, nor did he give any indication here, what the solution to a problem would be, given his religion or whatever. Therefore, I’ll give him credit for challenging Big Psychiatry because they need a kick in the butt; unfortunately I don’t think Cruise came off with enough credibility that anybody who matters will take him seriously.

His biggest problem in this interview is that he doesn’t know how to argue; he just keeps repeating himself. And he says the same things over again, and he’s redundant. Not only that, he says the same thing an extra time rather than try to explain or add to it. Plus, he gets redundant and sometimes remakes a point rather than supports it. 😛

Alan
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I assume you put bipolar disorder in the category of “Moderator edited vulgarity chemical imbalance”. You should ask Patty Duke about her “Moderator edited vulgarity chemical imbalance”. I wonder what she would say about bipolar being Moderator edited vulgarity ! You should read her book sometime.
 
Did anyone hear that the Church of Scientology excommunicated Tom Cruise? I heard it on the radio a few days ago as I was waking up.
 
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snoopy:
I assume you put bipolar disorder in the category of “Moderator edited vulgarity chemical imbalance”. You should ask Patty Duke about her “Moderator edited vulgarity chemical imbalance”. I wonder what she would say about bipolar being Moderator edited vulgarity ! You should read her book sometime.
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I’m not sure if you were trying to be sarcastic, but just to let you know, Alan has bipolar disorder. If he thinks that in some cases that a chemical imbalance is B.S., he’s entitled to that. He did not say that all cases where chemical imbalance is claimed is B.S.
 
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snoopy:
I assume you put bipolar disorder in the category of “Moderator edited vulgarity chemical imbalance”. You should ask Patty Duke about her “Moderator edited vulgarity chemical imbalance”. I wonder what she would say about bipolar being Moderator edited vulgarity ! You should read her book sometime.
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No, I put bipolar disorder, at least in my case, in the category of reaction to stress beyond what I could handle at the time. It was a runaway emotional system, fueled by imbalance of the false self centers of 1) power/control, 2) affection/esteem, and 3) security/comfort. The antidote to having these centers out of whack is primarily spiritual. Chemicals can help us “wait it out” but do not make the necessary changes in our thought patterns, governed largely by our beliefs, consequently our ways of thinking and responding to things. Treatment for mania is basically tranquilizers and removing stimulus from the patient. In other words, change the environment. That’s great short term, but unless you want to limit your potential, that is not a long term fix.

I don’t know much about Patty Duke, except I used to see her on TV now and then. I really like the title Brilliant Madness; I might just have to check it out. Thanks for the tip. 👍

BTW, since you have read the book, would you perhaps mind sharing some of your ideas in the “Bipolar Club” thread in the Water Cooler? :tiphat:

Alan
 
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aimee:
In this case…I may have to disagree with you…if you (Tom Cruise) are a kook…then any thing you say is suspect. :eek:
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You can be skeptical of anything said but you cannot be cyncial. Being cynical means you will automatically disagree with someone without investigating the facts/and or whether or not he is right. Being cynical is not healthy.
 
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deb1:
Actually, I would be worried about a fellow Catholic that said all mental disorders could be cured with vitamins and will power, wouldn’t you. Certain mental disorders should be classified as physical problems as they involve brain chemistry. I would not tell a person with diabeties to neglect to take insulin why would I tell someone like Brooke Shields, who has a hormonal imbalance due to childbirth, that she shouldn’t take medication?

ALso, Tom Cruise was not talking about the fact that many people are overmedicated in our society. He was talking about taking **any **medication for mental disorders.
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I’m not sure he was saying that ALL mental disorders can be cured with vitamins and will power. I think he was saying that medication generally does more harm than good for mental disorders. There are many examples that would support this claim. If I have not categorized his position properly then please correct me. Otherwise, I tend to agree with this specific and particular position.
 
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Lorarose:
It is true people are overmedicated…or they are medicated too early before other alternatives are found.

But it is also true that if Andrea Yates had not gone off her medication her 5 children would most likely still be alive.

There IS a place for psychiatry and medicine despite the abuses out there and Tom Cruise is not qualified to question that no matter how much “research” he has done.

His opinion has no affect on me.
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Perhaps Yates was overly dependent on the medication.
 
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mlchance:
Not far from correct? Isn’t that just a nice way of saying “wrong”?

😃

– Mark L. Chance.
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Actually, it is a nice way of saying that you shouldn’t demonize and refute everything someone says because they are wrong on other things.

I may add that I am NOT a Tom Cruise fan at all. I generally don’t like his attitude, his acting, or his lifestyle.
 
Momofone:
I’m not sure if you were trying to be sarcastic, but just to let you know, Alan has bipolar disorder. If he thinks that in some cases that a chemical imbalance is B.S., he’s entitled to that. He did not say that all cases where chemical imbalance is claimed is B.S.
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Dear Momofone,

Thanks for the support. I actually did sense some possible sarcasm based on the multiple use of quoted phrase that differs slightly from my own phrase. I pretended not to notice for two reasons. One I figured I asked for it by using such a strong term against the sacred cow of “chemical imbalance.” Another reason to ignore it was to confuse the poster as to whether I “appreciated” the gesture or if it went over my head – I experiment with mind games like that sometimes. 😃

Since I’m still attacking the term, I’ll go ahead and defend myself against counterattack a bit right away.

First, I hereby claim not to be speaking in absolutes, in that bipolar and the like may be caused by chemical imbalance in some cases. I’ve softened a bit on that since my first post.

In their advertisements and pamphlets, pharmaceutical marketing departments make it sound as if chemical imbalance is scientifically established as root cause. In reality, there are different camps and my own psychiatrist says nobody really knows what the cause is. Since I’m sure that any time a person has a lot of anxiety there will be a chemical imbalance associated with it, it gives license for those companies to use wording that implies a causal relationship.

Why would they do that? I can think of several reasons. One, it sounds less offensive to customers to tell them that there is a “chemical imbalance” rather than saying your ways of thinking are messed up. It takes away “responsibility” for the illness from the patient to some vague external cause, thus acquitting the patient of having anything to do with it. At the same time, it also takes away the patient’s authority to do anything about it, so they will believe drug therapy is not only a treatment, but also a cure – and in fact the only cure.

If “chemical imbalance” were known to be the cause, then psychiatrists and psychologists could spend a lot less time talking to their patients and trying to dig into what is bothering them and how they are thinking about it. All we’d have to do is take a blood test, see which chemical is off, and fix it with drugs. Bada boom, bada bing. You could just go to the pharmacy and have that done by a technician while you wait.

Just 25 years ago when I took Abnormal Psychology in college, the main difference between “neurosis” and “psychosis” was that a psychotic was not able to effectively function in society. Many years later I asked a shrink about that, and he said that technology has advanced since that was the way to think about it. I suspect drug therapy is the major change. We may not be curing people with it, but we are helping them to the point where they can function despite their illness.

Alan.
 
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Brad:
You can be skeptical of anything said but you cannot be cyncial. Being cynical means you will automatically disagree with someone without investigating the facts/and or whether or not he is right. Being cynical is not healthy.
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no…I would not say cynical…c’est logique… 😛
 
MomofOne perhaps snoopy is tired of hearing people with mental illness need to pray harder.
 
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Lilyofthevalley:
MomofOne perhaps snoopy is tired of hearing people with mental illness need to pray harder.
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That’s an excellent point.

Clearly, if my beliefs are correct, then whatever the person was doing mentally, emotionally, and spiritually wasn’t working. Doing more of it or adding an extra devotion is about like taking a potshot into the sky. Many times, people with mental illness are practically consumed with their faith, so just telling a person their problems are spiritual gives them no direction at all.

What I would be pleased to accomplish by stating that fact is, for one, giving hope for mentally ill patients that there is something they can do other than just grit their teeth for days or even years, hoping their meds will make things better eventually, maybe if the tenth thing they try doesn’t work, the 11th will be the magic bullet. Also I wish to give them hope that what they have might actually be curable and not just manageable. Third, for those who wish to do something other than just get through the day, wishing God or My Doctor Does Something Soon, there are many ways they can go but the cure is the same – resign yourself to the Holy Spirit.

Lose the false self, like Jesus told us. When he said to deny our very selves, as in today’s sermon, he meant our false selves. Our persona, image, reflexive emotional reactions, and all that make up our false selves, which are tied to worldly issues and fed anxiety by the worldly (false self) cravings for 1) security/comfort, 2) affection/esteem, and 3) power/control. If one builds on the theological virtues of faith, hope, and love, these three energy centers will lose their power and quit feeding hyperactive emotions.

That all sounds great, but how to do it? Well, Lectio Divina is a good start. Anything that brings you toward inner silence, thus inviting contemplation as a gift from God. For more ideas, or if you have specific questions, visit the Bipolar Club thread in the Water Cooler, or send me PM. You are right that just saying “go pray more” is basically abusive, because they probably have been doing that already, and it kind of puts them down.

Also in support of your points, most Catholics have no clue about the spiritual journey whatsoever, and have sadly little experience with the whole apophatic tradition of the Church, and never even heard of “mystical theology.” This is why some people leave the Catholic Church – because they don’t think we know this stuff so they go east. Hey, Catholics have all that and better than Buddhists in many ways, but you have to go looking for it because the Church keeps this light stowed away in cloisters for safe keeping, while the parish activities are entirely kataphatic, except for a few things like Eucharistic Adoration, which also isn’t nearly mainstream enough.

One respected and disrespected psychiatrist on this issue is Dr. Wm. Glassner, promoter of “reality therapy.” I haven’t actually read his books, but my SD referred to him and I skimmed a few of his books.

Self-serving memories: my SD, Father Pecht, was a Redemptorist who, at the time, was confessor and director for most diocesan priests here. He was gentle, brilliant, and when I was with him time went neither fast nor slow – it was the darndest thing. It was like he was so wise and holy that the notion of how long have we been here or how long do we have left didn’t even surface. I could tell him absolutely anything without fear that he would be angry or astonished. Anyway, he met regularly with different psychologists, and read a great deal on psychology and psychiatry in addition to Catholicism. I miss him.

Alan
 
of an issue - I agree with Cruise. All he is saying is that these drugs do not TREAT - they mask the symptoms. They do not HEAL - they create financial market for drugs companies.

Frankly, I think that the entire interview was bad. Lower was rude, uninformed and interrogating a guest on his show. Cruise came to talk about his new movie, not debate medicine.

I’m confused by all this talk about Cruise and Katie too. What’s the big deal? The age difference? Come on! THAT’s certainly nothing new to society and she is certainly of age. The difference of faith? Well, of course we all want to raise good catholic children who grow up to marry good catholic spouses and make more catholic babies. Who knows? Maybe that will happen for Katie yet - many a man has found faith through the devotion of a Godly wife. I can only assume that I don’t know anything about their relationship - especially if it’s based on media sources!

Geez, isn’t there a war going on? Global warming? A traffic jam downtown? Any of which has got to be more important to my life than Cruise’s love life.

Once again… I’ll be ducking for cover from all the flames!😛
 
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