Mormon - Beliefs - A civil Discussion Please

[Realcatholicgk]

We all need prayer realcatholicgk…remember “he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone”?

**Hi web,
Yes, we all do!

Out of fear of judging others we have also developed a fear of judging their actions. But, it is precisely their actions that we are required to judged, as we are all sinners and charity requires that we admonish the sinner, so as to guide him back to the path of righteousness. This is not to exalt ourselves, but to correct those whose actions are clearly wrong. We do not condemn them!

“If we see a neighbor in sin and do not admonish them, then we answer for their sin as well as ours.” Leviticus 19:17.

Those who reject God’s chosen path for us are clearly in sin. Now, if it is through ignorance, that may be corrected. But, scripture is clear that those who reject Christ are not on the path of righteousness.

look at some other Scriptures…

JOHN 7:14: “Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
LUKE 12:57: “Yea, and why not even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?”
PSALM 37:30: “The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.”
PROVERBS 31:9: “Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.”
LUKE 17:3: “Take heed… If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.”
LEVITICUS 19:15-17: “Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor. Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbor: I am the Lord. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him.”
MATTHEW 3:2,7: John the Baptist preaching, “Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”
MATTHEW 23: Jesus publicly rebuked the hypocrites, “Woe unto you… hypocrites!..ye blind guides…fools…full of extortion and excess…whited sepulchres…full of hypocrisy and iniquity…Woe unto you…Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”
ACTS 7:51: Deacon Stephen said to the mob that ended up stoning him, “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in hearts and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”
ACTS 13:10: The Apostle Paul says to a man who hindered the Gospel, “O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?”
ACTS 8:20-23: Here the Apostle Peter severely rebukes a baby Christian who commits one sin: “Thy money perish with thee… Thy heart is not right in the sight of God.Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitter-ness, and in the bond of iniquity.”
I CORINTHIANS 2:15; 6:2-3: “He that is spiritual judgeth all things… Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to this life?”
JOHN 3:18-19: “He that believeth on Him (JESUS) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already,because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”
JOHN 12:48: JESUS CHRIST said, “He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”

God is the Judge we are to be witnesses! It is God that sets the standard and passes the judgment. We just pray for one another that we may become worthy of the promises of Christ!
**

 

[truthsilence]

No, no one else gets it either. Are you telling me that it is NOT catholic doctrine that the trinity is a Mystery?

I have never understood it, no one can. That is one of the reasons I left Catholicism so it has nothing to do with being LDS.

If it were not for the LDS doctrine, which I do understand, I probably would not be any kind of trinitarian at all. My worship experience is that I am in direct communication with one individual who knows me and loves me and is supporting me and directing my life.

That experience is what I rely on. I think that that individual is Jesus Christ, whom I experience as my father, the Father of all our salvation(s) especially mine. To me, LDS doctrine is the only doctrine I have found which has a reasonable explanation how this can be. And additionally, it explains what I have always believed that creation ex nihilo is impossible, and that we can live forever and grow closer and closer and closer to God forever. I believe these to be true principles which have been revealed to me personally. I also know personally through revelation that faith in Jesus Christ can transform our lives from the inside out. He has totally changed my life in ways I cannot even tell you. It is nothing short of a miracle what has happend through Him in my life. You can do anything through faith in Jesus Christ. Anything. Period. Including become like Him through an incredible gift of grace he has given all of us.

I already see the replies: “But you are creating your own God when you should be relying on the Church”

Nonsense. Should I join a church I disagree with?

When God has revealed principles to you, I think it is a good idea to go with it.

And when God has told you something, you know it was God. Couldn’t be anybody else.

How do I know it was a true revelation? How do you know anything religious is true? Study it out in your mind which I did for 30 years before I found Jesus Christ, and then have it confirmed to you by the poweer of the Holy Ghost.

How can I be Mormon and you be catholic and we both have a witness of the spirit?

Because God takes us where we are and leads us to where we want to be. I have no problem with you being Catholic and having a true revelation that you should be.

Give me the same privilege.

I will be around, but really, there is nothing more to say. The rest is squabbling which I am really really really trying to avoid. I seriously need to repent.

mfbukowski, (Would you consider giving us your real name, friend? I hate typing that out!)

I just want to respond to your testimony of Christ. What you said of Him is what I craved hearing in fast and testimony meeting when I was LDS. Thank you for sharing that.

Tami

 

[Realcatholicgk]

mfbukowski, (Would you consider giving us your real name, friend? I hate typing that out!)

I just want to respond to your testimony of Christ. What you said of Him is what I craved hearing in fast and testimony meeting when I was LDS. Thank you for sharing that.

Tami

**Hi truth,
So Tami, you think mfbukkowski is an alias?

His testamony sounds good. But it rings hollow because he says: **“How can I be Mormon and you be catholic and we both have a witness of the spirit?” **The real answer is unless His witness was that the Catholic church is the way to Christ they can’t be! One is a true whitness the other is a phony feeling. **

Because God takes us where we are and leads us to where we want to be. I have no problem with you being Catholic and having a true revelation that you should be.

**God wants everyone to be saved through His son Jesus. Even Jesus warned about false teachers false beliefs. The warning were 2,000 years ago. That is when the Catholic church began. Any group formed after that is automatically included in the warnings that Jesus and Paul made in the scriptures.

Some people, I think mfbukkowski is included, in this group would say it is better for him to be a Good Morman than a bad Catholic. Well, as far as Temporal matters I would agree, but we are talking about the possibility of eternal damnation here. A “bad” Catholic that took the Eucharist weekly and obtained the graces that Christ gave him or her might have a better change at the final Judgment than someone who turned his back on Christ to follow a man’s idea of God. That is God’s decision. I know I wouldn’t gamble on my eternal soul. We must pray that all lost sheep return to the flock. Jesus is waiting for them!

God Bless
**

 

[mfbukowski]

I don’t know if you read this earlier because I didn’t see a response from you, but here it is in case you didn’t see it.

That’s why it is called the “Mystery of the Trinity” our human brains can not comprehend how 1 God could be among 3 different deities. We are not supposed to understand yet. It’s like trying to fit the ocean into 1 glass; we don’t have the capacity to understand it in our mortal brains. Jesus also states several times that God was a mystery, but to have Faith!! Job 11:7 is a great place in the bible where it states this; really all of Job 11 is about this. Another very good book is, 1 Corinthians 2:7. 1 Timothy 3:16 “Beyond all question, the mystery from which true Godliness springs is great: He appeared in a body was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.” Just have Faith in it. Just stop trying to figure out how it is **HUMANLY **possible, and try to understand that it beyond our knowledge at this time. We will know fully one day, but not yet. We are not in a state of complete grace, so that is why we can not understand complete grace. If we were there with God in Heaven (complete Grace) then we would know. He told us all before we even came to earth who we were and who He is. It is up to us to remember, and have Faith in what Jesus told us. Jesus wants us to remember, that’s why He told the apostles the mysteries and why they are mysteries. We have not been granted that honor of knowing just yet. As long as we can accept that, and be patient, the more at peace we will be. Faith, Love, Peace, Patience. They all have to be done together. You can not understand one without the other, or do one without the other.
God Bless, Alisha

The only problem is, if it is a mystery, how do I know that your mysteries are any more correct than my mysteries?

You offer only a mystery, I offer an explanation, yet mine must be wrong. Sorry I will go with something that makes sense every time. I look to religion for anwers, yes, answers I must take on faith-- none of this can be proven anyway.

But to me, I will take an answer on faith before I will take a mystery on faith.

Who would believe in a religion that doesn’t give answers?

 

[mfbukowski]

Almost let it go. Not quite. No gold star for you.

Dang. But at least I got a C+.

 

[mfbukowski]

ps: when I was in primary they would lick the gold star to stick it to your forehead. I would try to make sure I was the one to not get the gold star because I didn’t want someone’s spit on my forehead. Nowadays, they have self adhesive stars.

Ah, another one of those doctrinal changes we do, hey?

Actually , spit on the forehead is a secondary symbol of baptism.

 

[mfbukowski]

**
Hi Rebecca,

But he did try to let it go! Lets award a bronze star for effort? :coffeeread: I will notify the nominating committee! It will need your indorsement!

Have you noticed he doesn’t answer any questions? Cute isn’t he? :compcoff:

God Bless**

I could never match all your smileys for cuteness cutie pie

 

[mfbukowski]

Realcatholicgk:
It’s mf, as in… nevermind.

 

[mfbukowski]

MEgus,

I don’t understand, in the reading of Genesis, how you are getting that the Earth was created ‘spiritually’ before it was created ‘physically’.

Also, from what I’ve gathered of the Hebrew language, (of which I personally know zero I admit) is that, where Adonai and Yhwh occur together the latter, was pronounced “Elohim.”

So you are pursuing a plurality of God’s with this, correct? The Jewish Faith is monotheistic as you know. I think if these Hebrew words denote a plurality of God’s, the people who actually speak the language would know it.

Peace,
Tami

Elohim (אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים ) is a Hebrew word which expresses concepts of divinity. It is apparently related to the Hebrew word ēl, though morphologically it consists of the Hebrew word Eloah (אלוה) with a plural suffix. Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text of Genesis and occurs frequently throughout the Hebrew Bible. Its exact significance is often disputed.

In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, “… Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush …”), it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar (see next section), and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah (אלוה), and refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods (for example, Exodus 20:3, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”). This may reflect the use of the word “Elohim” found in the late Bronze Age texts of Canaanite Ugarit, where Elohim ('lhm) denoted the entire Canaanite pantheon (the family of El אל, the patriarchal creator god). It may also refer to a Henotheistic strand of Judaism. In still other cases, the meaning is not clear from the text, but may refer to powerful beings (e.g. Genesis 6:2, “… the sons of Elohim saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them for wives… ,” Exodus 4:16, “He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you [Moses] were Elohim to him [Aaron]… ,” Exodus 22:28, “Thou shalt not revile Elohim, or curse a ruler of your people… ,” where the parallelism suggests that Elohim may refer to human rulers). See Sons of God for more information.

Wikipedia

 

[mfbukowski]

mfbukowski, (Would you consider giving us your real name, friend? I hate typing that out!)

I just want to respond to your testimony of Christ. What you said of Him is what I craved hearing in fast and testimony meeting when I was LDS. Thank you for sharing that.

Tami

Maybe you should come to our fast meetings!

This is my real name. Shorten it if you like. I think most people are uncharitable because they hide behind fake names and “handles”

When I am uncharitable, at least I take responsibility for it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Dang. But at least I got a C+.

C’s get degrees. Or at least they used to. Now you gotta have a B.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Ah, another one of those doctrinal changes we do, hey?

Actually , spit on the forehead is a secondary symbol of baptism.

The doctrine of the sticky star. I’ll make a wikipedia entry.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Maybe you should come to our fast meetings!

It’s all those former Catholics, who have been given a proper understanding of Jesus Christ. Let’s hope they don’t lose it.

 

[truthsilence]

**Hi truth,
So Tami, you think mfbukkowski is an alias?

His testamony sounds good. But it rings hollow because he says: **“How can I be Mormon and you be catholic and we both have a witness of the spirit?” **The real answer is unless His witness was that the Catholic church is the way to Christ they can’t be! One is a true whitness the other is a phony feeling. **

Because God takes us where we are and leads us to where we want to be. I have no problem with you being Catholic and having a true revelation that you should be.

**God wants everyone to be saved through His son Jesus. Even Jesus warned about false teachers false beliefs. The warning were 2,000 years ago. That is when the Catholic church began. Any group formed after that is automatically included in the warnings that Jesus and Paul made in the scriptures.

Some people, I think mfbukkowski is included, in this group would say it is better for him to be a Good Morman than a bad Catholic. Well, as far as Temporal matters I would agree, but we are talking about the possibility of eternal damnation here. A “bad” Catholic that took the Eucharist weekly and obtained the graces that Christ gave him or her might have a better change at the final Judgment than someone who turned his back on Christ to follow a man’s idea of God. That is God’s decision. I know I wouldn’t gamble on my eternal soul. We must pray that all lost sheep return to the flock. Jesus is waiting for them!

God Bless
**

I’m well aware of the differences. But I am know that, while I was LDS, God was persistant in calling me to Himself. Which eventually led me home to His church. Before I was a LDS, I had a very personal, life changing testimony of Christ. I would not presume to tell someone that they do not have the same. He meets us where we are.

Peace,
Tami

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’m well aware of the differences. But I am know that, while I was LDS, God was persistant in calling me to Himself. Which eventually led me home to His church. Before I was a LDS, I had a very personal, life changing testimony of Christ. I would not presume to tell someone that they do not have the same. He meets us where we are.

Peace,
Tami

Indeed, He does.

 

[truthsilence]

Wikipedia

mf, o that just doesn’t feel right, but, as you wish )

So, Wikipedia. What? Is this your answer to my question to MEgus?

 

[mfbukowski]

It’s all those former Catholics, who have been given a proper understanding of Jesus Christ. Let’s hope they don’t lose it.

Well we certainly have enough of those, who knows?

 

[mfbukowski]

I’m well aware of the differences. But I am know that, while I was LDS, God was persistant in calling me to Himself. Which eventually led me home to His church. Before I was a LDS, I had a very personal, life changing testimony of Christ. I would not presume to tell someone that they do not have the same. He meets us where we are.

Peace,
Tami

 

[truthsilence]

Well we certainly have enough of those, who knows?

It must be the baptismal graces you all received.

 

[mfbukowski]

Indeed, He does.

Uh oh, it happened again. We posted the same answer to the same post. Scary stuff.