Mormon Chat

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  1. Don’t go expecting there to be a great revival with millions listening to you and flocking to your words. This isn’t an attack against you, but rather a statement of reality.** Remember if they reject you, they’re not rejecting you, but Christ. Remember, they hated him before they hated us (cf. John 15:18). **Their hearts will only be turned by the work of the Holy Spirit. Just remember you are serving God as a servant of truth, not for personal glory.
I take issue with the comment I’ve bolded. I don’t believe Mormons hate Christ. They love Him, but unfortunately they don’t know the truth about Him. They’ve been brainwashed and have believed the lies they’ve been told. Everyone they know and love believes JUST like they believe. In their mind they are right - so if they turn away from the conversation, it’s not because they hate Christ. It’s because they disagree and find it pointless to continue.

I speak as a former JW who didn’t believe Jesus was God. I didn’t hate Christ, nor was it my intention to reject Him. … I sincerely thought I was serving Him, and at that time, if you had told me otherwise I would have been rejecting your religion I believed was 100% FALSE - not Christ. I’m certain it’s the same with the Mormons.

I do agree their eyes must be opened by the Holy Spirit and seeds can be planted to help that along… They need our prayers more than anything.
 
I take issue with the comment I’ve bolded. I don’t believe Mormons hate Christ. They love Him, but unfortunately they don’t know the truth about Him. . . . .
yellowbird,
I’m not really sure we can say whether they do or whether they don’t hate Christ. Keep in mind Mormons do not worship the same Christ as in Christianity.

LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley, June 4, 1998:
“The traditional Christ of who they speak in not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak had been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.”(Church News, June, 20 1998, p. 7.)

LDS Church’s 147th General Conference, General Authority Bernard P. Brockbank:
“…It is true that many of the Christian churches worship A DIFFERENT JESUS CHRIST than is worshiped by the Mormons…” (“The Ensign,” May 1977, p. 26.)

Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255:
". . . .Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. . . .

Discourse by Second Mormon Prophet Brigham Young, 1873:
“Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth.” (The Desert News, Discourse By President Brigham Young, Delivered in the new Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, June 8th, 1873)
Second Mormon Prophet Brigham Young taught Adam is Michael the Archangel, Ancient of Days, and God. Today, Mormons claim this was never taught.
April 9, 1852, Mormon Prophet, Brigham Young:
"Journal of Discourses Volume 1:50-51
"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. . . .

When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession. . .

. . .It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

. . .What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.

. . .Now remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.

. . .Treasure up these things in your hearts. In the Bible, you have read the things I have told you to-night; but you have not known what you did read. I have told you no more than you are conversant with; but what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know about this subject? Comparatively nothing." (Journal of Discourses of the General Authorities of the LDS Church, Volume 1)
More than 20 years later, BJ still claimed Adam is God. Again, the LDS claim this was never taught.
June 8, 1873, President Brigham Young, Delivered in the new Tabernacle, Salt Lake City:
"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me—namely that Adam is our Father and God—I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth.

Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth. I have been found fault with by the ministers of religion because I have said that they were ignorant. But I could not find any man on the earth who could tell me this, although it is one of the simplest things in the world, until I met and talked with Joseph Smith."(The Desert News, Discourse, By President Brigham Young, Delivered in the new Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, June 8th, 1873.)
(© THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH | J. Willard Marriott Library 295 S 1500 E SLC, UT 84112-0860)

See:** LDS Scripture Citation Index**
 
I take issue with the comment I’ve bolded. I don’t believe Mormons hate Christ. They love Him, but unfortunately they don’t know the truth about Him. They’ve been brainwashed and have believed the lies they’ve been told. Everyone they know and love believes JUST like they believe. In their mind they are right - so if they turn away from the conversation, it’s not because they hate Christ. It’s because they disagree and find it pointless to continue.
If they reject the truth about Christ, then they reject Christ. As Anna Scott pointed out in her post, the concept of Jesus in Mormonism is a different one entirely. When you dive deeper into Mormon theology especially, their Jesus is so wildly different that you might as well give him another name. I’m sure Mormons believe what they think is Jesus, and in their mind they might think they’re right, but they’re still wrong, and their rejection of the truth of Christ is a sign of their rebellion against God, and hence their hatred of God and His truth. It’s the same manner that an atheist might tell you that his atheism is not an example of him suppressing the truth by unrighteousness (Ro 1:18), but by the words of God Himself that is what they are doing.

“For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels” (Lk 9:26).
 
Personally I would not do it. I imagine the chat room is staffed by Mormon missionaries and these missionaries are highly trained in defending their false religion. I would not try apologetics with Mormon missionaries until you are deeply rooted in the Catholic faith and in apologetics, especially as regards Mormonism.
 
Someone earlier in the thread asked what questions I asked them:
I asked them about their teaching on abortion (regarding the fact that they say it is ok in the case of rape/incest) and how I thought that goes against “thou shall not kill”. We discussed for a bit and then they just said that this was a hard subject and that she just trusts the leadership of her church. I said “fair enough, I can’t consider a church that is inconsistent on abortion like this so Mormon must not be for me”. She said, “Ok, Thank you.” and disconnected. lol I guess they don’t want me too badly.
Thanks for providing that information. In considering a church to join, sometimes it just comes down to a willingness to accept or reject what that church teaches. Mormon teaching on abortion is reasonably clear. The LDS.org site says:

“Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. But even these circumstances do not automatically justify an abortion. Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer.”

Once you let it be known that this is an unacceptable position for you, there would seem to be no further point to the discussion, unless you had questions on another issue.

It’s nice to know that they are always nice.
 
I caused quite a bit of a row when I referred to Orson Pratt materials in one of their great works, ‘Pearl of Great Price’, and I was very drawn to the book because I love the imagery of the kingdom of Christ.

We think it could have been an edited version about 1852.

I also looked at Smith’s Doctrine and Covenants.

When I read the materials, it was very shocking to me, and I was literally shaking…it was evident to me there was a spiritual force at work in these materials…powerful.

I went back to the store after contacting the LDS in SLC, and they knew nothing of what I was talking about.

Anna here has drawn some materials I ran into at the Deseret Store.

You have to go back to their initial beliefs.

Seeing a comment here only going back to the late 1990’s is revealing in that their leadership admits that they do believe in a different Christ.

So this kind of dilemma is what you will encounter – either people not knowing what you are talking about, or you are dealing with concepts that are constantly changing, or a complete denial that the Mormon religion ever taught those things.

For me, I would rather use that energy to pray for them in those issues or defend my faith here at CAF.
 
Actually, Baptist Board is the one who banned me as a “Catholic Troll”, after responding to false claims they were posting about Catholic beliefs. I was still officially a member of the Baptist Church at that time. I’ve never had such horrible things said to me.

CARM is horrible also. I’d stay away from them. I joined there hoping to make a positive difference, but immediately realized it would be a waste of time and energy. When the owners of a site are so anti-Catholic; there’s not much hope, I’m afraid.

As for Mormonism, I think it is better to deal with that issue on your own turf. I realize I’m not Catholic; but this is comfortable turf after nearly 4 years. 🙂

Anna
My philosophy regarding CARM; make your point and get out.

I rarely log in over there, but when I do I’m sure to keep it to a minimal one or two posts. And it’s usually on a point where I know I have something that is clearly true, or I’m correcting a lie about the Catholic faith (funny, they don’t know if they’re validly baptized they’re baptized through the Catholic Church)

Going back and forth with them is useless…and once you get “offensive” (aka, lay down too much truth) then the warnings start coming before they eventually ban you.

Sorry to go off about CARM here, but I seized the opportunity. Horribly hateful forum. User beware.
 
My philosophy regarding CARM; make your point and get out.

I rarely log in over there, but when I do I’m sure to keep it to a minimal one or two posts. And it’s usually on a point where I know I have something that is clearly true, or I’m correcting a lie about the Catholic faith (funny, they don’t know if they’re validly baptized they’re baptized through the Catholic Church)

Going back and forth with them is useless…and once you get “offensive” (aka, lay down too much truth) then the warnings start coming before they eventually ban you.

Sorry to go off about CARM here, but I seized the opportunity. Horribly hateful forum. User beware.
Good advice, but that probably takes more self control than I have most days. :doh2:
 
. . .I also looked at Smith’s Doctrine and Covenants.

When I read the materials, it was very shocking to me, and I was literally shaking…it was evident to me there was a spiritual force at work in these materials…powerful.

I went back to the store after contacting the LDS in SLC, and they knew nothing of what I was talking about.

Anna here has drawn some materials I ran into at the Deseret Store. . .
Kathleen,
I remember that LDS thread when you posted your experience with the Desert Store. LDS members were giving you such a hard time. I remember posting LDS quotes that supported what you said you read. That was a rough thread.

Anna
 
Anna,

You do not realize How Much the Holy Spirit worked through you! I was afraid to open up on this, had little experience on forums then.

I felt so much grace and consolation and affirmation come through you by the Holy Spirit.

I think that is the big problem with Mormonism is that their whole construct is fraudulent, it becomes a culture of denial by many good and moral Mormons in there, this phrase sounding contradicting in itself.

But Mormons are denying now their beliefs going all the way up to the late 90’s now…as I can see from a thread, and now, incredibly, using early church fathers to prove Joseph Smith, but in an eclipsed interpretation that opposes our faith. I think they are finding out the Apostasy theory is not working out at all now.

Many are leaving Mormonism because of the internet.

God bless you always!!! May be i will try to find that thread. it was crazy.
 
I decided to look for that thread, and it was started by StevenVH, page 176 as of today, “Mormon Apostasy and Restoration”, Dec. 12, 2009.
 
Living in Washington state on the local Seattle news recently they had a special on how the lds president came out in the last couple of months (right after the “gay marriage” thing in Washington). And talked about how the lds need to change thier stance and welcome gay people into the lds church. The verbiage sounded like the first steps toward excepting lds gay marriage
 
Thanks, Rebecca…you are a true techie…I still can’t copy and paste…my son who taught me basics of computers when he was in grade school, came in for 3 seconds showed me and then left.

I will try to learn more.

And you likewise, were just great…first time ‘meeting’ you after being on there since September 2009…hmmm…I didn’t realize I came in on feast day of Mary of Sorrows, Sept 15, and then this post on that started December 12, Mary of Guadalupe. I was very shy, and it has taken me a number of years to come out of my shell and interact with people more. Anna is great with her persona…reading her posts it is like she is in the room with you.

Yours, Rebecca…are always having this sense of humor.

Do you remember that long Mormon thread we participated in, another on the Great Apostasy that drew over 20,000 in time…They let us go on beyond 1,000 posts.

And I looked back at various threads going back these years, all the lurkers on there, and definitely see a different perspective on the Apostasy now by Mormons, aka Tom Nossor and some others.

They are lurking and i hope Mormons are finding the truth in Jesus Christ’s Church, the Catholic universal Church.
 
Thanks, Rebecca…you are a true techie…I still can’t copy and paste…my son who taught me basics of computers when he was in grade school, came in for 3 seconds showed me and then left.

I will try to learn more.

And you likewise, were just great…first time ‘meeting’ you after being on there since September 2009…hmmm…I didn’t realize I came in on feast day of Mary of Sorrows, Sept 15, and then this post on that started December 12, Mary of Guadalupe. I was very shy, and it has taken me a number of years to come out of my shell and interact with people more. Anna is great with her persona…reading her posts it is like she is in the room with you.

Yours, Rebecca…are always having this sense of humor.

Do you remember that long Mormon thread we participated in, another on the Great Apostasy that drew over 20,000 in time…They let us go on beyond 1,000 posts.

And I looked back at various threads going back these years, all the lurkers on there, and definitely see a different perspective on the Apostasy now by Mormons, aka Tom Nossor and some others.

They are lurking and i hope Mormons are finding the truth in Jesus Christ’s Church, the Catholic universal Church.
Thanks Kathleen. I think of being done with posting the same thing over and over. Cutting back. It’s the nice people here, like you, that keep me going. Your faith in Jesus Christ shines.

That thread from 2009 is more depressing than the current Mormon apostasy thread.

During my Angry period, I was active in the exMormon, RfM, forum for a couple of years. I had to quit posting/reading there because the endless relating of spiritual abuses cut through me. I haven’t been back.

I wouldn’t talk to the Mormons at mormon.org. They are missionaries, of the same kind you see walking around in pairs. They are trained to sell, and are fishing for what they call “golden contacts”. ie, people who bite onto the bait and they can reel in. Mormons do the same thing here.

They have nothing worth biting into, and are only out to destroy your soul.
 
That thread from 2009 is more depressing than the current Mormon apostasy thread.
We have learned and grown. In both faith and knowledge. Only the most level-headed of Mormon Apologists can survive with our teamwork. Our own discourse has become more civil in the process.
 
We have learned and grown. In both faith and knowledge. Only the most level-headed of Mormon Apologists can survive with our teamwork. Our own discourse has become more civil in the process.
ha, Eric still gets on my case.
 
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