Mormon Claims

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SirThomasMore said:
lol…and God did not know it would happen? Seriously? lol…

The real God knows all. Nice try, but you just made our point
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Read what I wrote. You will see a different meaning. We all have free agency. The mobs had their agency to murder. They could have chosen a different way.
 
why_me said:
Read what I wrote. You will see a different meaning. We all have free agency. The mobs had their agency to murder. They could have chosen a different way.
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so? God still knew what would happen. And God would not have told Joseph Smith something He already knew would not pass.

Joseph made it up…and it bit him
 
why_me said:
Is that a comeback? And of course a little while later after Patton and others were murdered we have this event:

Nope. You admitted to not having a position, that you argue both sides. So, you have very little credibility. You argue just to argue. Perhaps that is why most of your arguments do not go very far…because you don’t have the passion for your position

On October 30, 1838, about thirty saints lingered at Jacob Haun’s Mill, to get in the crops. Between twelve and eighteen LDS were massacred and buried in a common well. No mobber was ever tried for this deed.

More martyrs for their faith. Isn’t it nice to make light over Patton’s murder? But the mormons survived and went west and built wonderful towns and cities just like Joseph Smith said would happen.
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Red Herrings
 
why_me said:
And yes, david, would then be serving in the afterlife. But he should have lived longer on earth to serve his earthly mission too. But…antimormons killed him and many others.
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What you forgot to mention was that the alleged revelation states “…next spring, in company of others…to bear glad tidings unto all the world.” As I understand it, there were supposed to be 12 men going, so unless they were also killed, you have a problem. And he couldn’t possibly bear ‘glad tidings’ to all the world if he weren’t in it, could he?

I will also now state that I do not and have not ever advocated violence against anyone LDS because of their faith alone. I have never promoted Mormons being rounded up and put into camps, their liberties stripped, or their lives taken. That said, please stop playing the victim role because we all know that behavior has no place here.

The persecution of Mormons holds not a candle to that suffered by the Jews, Poles, or Czechs under Hitler. Sharing part of that heritage, it sickens me to see Mormons desperately trying to put themselves into the same situation as if being persecuted is what makes someone correct.

Boggs’ ‘Mormon extermination order,’ as we all know was wrong, but it all comes down to the actions of one man, Joseph Smith. If you’re looking for someone to blame, that person is much closer than you might think.
 
Returning_Home said:
And the reason for this is that I frankly believe there were plates, something Joseph had made for him somewhere along the line. The words of the witnessess do all seem to indicate that.
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One of Oliver Cowdery’s occupations was as a printer. He was skilled in working copper. He could have easily made the plates.
 
why_me said:
Of course Joseph was disappointed that some of them left the fold. But he certainly wasn’t nervous that they were going to spill the beans. See my point? This is often overlooked by people like yourself. If 11 people were in on the fraud and some of these 11 left the fold, I would be sweating bullets if I were Joseph Smith…because I know that it is only a matter of time before one spills the beans. But…Joseph Smith wasn’t nervous at all. Go figure.
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Some of them were naive dupes. There weren’t that many in on it. And the beans were spilled. Rigdon told a printer in St Louis. And oral tradition in the Nauvoo area has it that the BoM was plagiarized from other recent works.

Those who knew didn’t talk (apparently) about the fraud because of death threats on themeselves and their families.
 
We have a group here in Northern Utah who have left the LDS church and have become what is know around here as post mormons. What is sad is they would never look into the Catholic Church, most anyway. They have pretty much left any type of religion behind but do not see them selves as a kind of religion.

The ones who do make it to the Catholic faith in Christ find more joy than they ever could have imagined here on earth… Most are more involved than many other Catholics. I do not believe so much for recognition like they may have received in the Mormon church. I truly believe they get the humility part, how pride and ego runs. One always says I became Catholic because I get Jesus 24/7, that He is always the main focus, not just words. So the question is what do you really have to loose by opening up here? What do possibly you have to gain? I am here for you because I truly do have love in m heart for all of you. Only because I know Jesus can I say this with a sincere heart.
utahmission@aol.com
www.utahmission.com
 
That is the sad truth. They have been so indoctrinated by the anti-Catholic attitude of Mormonism that they refuse to look at Catholicism. They can find true faith, through Catholicism. Maybe in the initial rebellion against Mormonism, instead of drinking themselves silly, participating in sexual acting-out, and OD’ing on caffeine, they might more appropriately rebel by investigating Catholicism. Just thinking. 😉
 
It is important that we work together in prayer to lead them from the false prophets prophesied by Jesus.
 
catholic-rcia said:
We have a group here in Northern Utah who have left the LDS church and have become what is know around here as post mormons. What is sad is they would never look into the Catholic Church, most anyway. They have pretty much left any type of religion behind but do not see them selves as a kind of religion.

The ones who do make it to the Catholic faith in Christ find more joy than they ever could have imagined here on earth… Most are more involved than many other Catholics. I do not believe so much for recognition like they may have received in the Mormon church. I truly believe they get the humility part, how pride and ego runs. One always says I became Catholic because I get Jesus 24/7, that He is always the main focus, not just words. So the question is what do you really have to loose by opening up here? What do possibly you have to gain? I am here for you because I truly do have love in m heart for all of you. Only because I know Jesus can I say this with a sincere heart.
utahmission@aol.com
www.utahmission.com
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This is fairly common among those who leave the LDS; Mormonism is not a faith but an entire culture, not unlike Islam. People who leave often do so as atheists, people who never allow the possibility of God. The most notable exceptions are Shawn McCraney and Lyndon Lamborn, two men I have a tremendous amount of respect for.
 
LongJourney said:
One of Oliver Cowdery’s occupations was as a printer. He was skilled in working copper. He could have easily made the plates.
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Really? I wasn’t aware of that. Do you have a source so I can read more on my own? None of my literature mentions that to my knowledge.
 
1823 summer Ethan Smith finished writing his book View of the Hebrews in Poultney, Rutland, VT and had it published on the press of the Poultney Gazette, (after Dec. called the Northern Spectator. It is possible that Oliver Cowdery was employed at the Poultney Gazette as a printer’s devil or assistent type-setter during 1822 and early 1823.
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1823 summer? Oliver Cowdery probably left VT to take a job as a printer’s assistant in western NY. He may have lived briefly in New York City and then settled for a time in Canandaigua, Ontario, NY. If so, Oliver probably worked on a publication like the “Plain Truth” which was then being published in Canandaigua. During this period he probably also visited his brothers in Arcadia, Wayne, NY, Cattaraugus Co., NY, and Youngstown, Trumbull, OH.
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olivercowdery.com/history/Cdychrn1.htm

This entire website, owned by Dale Broadhurst, contains a lot of information.
 
LongJourney said:
That is the sad truth. They have been so indoctrinated by the anti-Catholic attitude of Mormonism that they refuse to look at Catholicism. They can find true faith, through Catholicism. Maybe in the initial rebellion against Mormonism, instead of drinking themselves silly, participating in sexual acting-out, and OD’ing on caffeine, they might more appropriately rebel by investigating Catholicism. Just thinking. 😉
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On the other hand, when in time, God leads us to the Catholic Church, what we were taught by Mormons about Catholicism only helps us see clearer the Truth. This Truth being a Who, and that Who being Jesus Christ. In this fashion, the falseness of Mormonism is clearly seen.

When Truth is revealed to us, by the Holy Spirit, we are astounded! And cannot help but to ask the same thing the Apostles asked Jesus, “Where else would we go?”

John 6
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
 
LongJourney said:
That is the sad truth. They have been so indoctrinated by the anti-Catholic attitude of Mormonism that they refuse to look at Catholicism. They can find true faith, through Catholicism. Maybe in the initial rebellion against Mormonism, instead of drinking themselves silly, participating in sexual acting-out, and OD’ing on caffeine, they might more appropriately rebel by investigating Catholicism. Just thinking. 😉
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This is not true at all. Catholicism is never mentioned in any classes or in any meetings in the lds church. And mormons are not by and large anticatholic. What happens is simple: mormonism has many answers and its picture of where we were and where we are going is very powerful. And the notion of truth is also very powerful. For the post-crowd, others religions just don’t have the answers that mormonism has. Thus, when they become disillusioned from mormonism, other religions just don’t hold the mustard.
 
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