Mormon Claims

[SirThomasMore]

Well, protestants claim that the catholics follow a false pope. What to do? And catholics would say that protestants follow false leaders. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t create charity, right?

What people say does not change the fact the Mormons follow a false prophet.

 

[why_me]

Falling back on the ‘long winded cut and paste’… just like why me.
:yawn:

Being a mormon on this forum is not easy. Usually mormons are outnumbered. To respond to every post by using one’s own words would be very time consuming and there is no assurance that the reader will read the post anyway. Much better to refer to a link where the writing work has already been done. Most Internet Mormons know that FAIR has already done the work because critics usually have the same questions and understandings that are used over and over again.

To my knowledge parker and dianiad seem to use a lot of their own wording in their posts. I am not sure if anyone gains by it. I haven’t seen a catholic who has changed their mind about anything that the two have said to them in their posts.

 

[LongJourney]

Be nice to Why Me, now. He is afraid to post in his own writing because he compulsively exposes his doubts in subtle ways. He has been an excellent source for me. I appreciate him.

Diana has also been a wonderful source. Not so much now, she seems to have mellowed out,since she discovered how much Mormonism borrowed from Masonry.

 

[campeador]

Being a mormon on this forum is not easy.

I understand that. Being a Christian is not easy, however I have found in almost every instance, the ‘long winded cut and paste’

1) doesn't respond to my question or inquiry directly, or 
2) only partly answers my question or inquiry

I’m left wading through a sea of paragraphs and after thoroughly reading every last one my conclusion is

1) either you didn't read the paragraphs you just asked me to read, or
2) you're deliberately trying to evade answering my question or inquiry

I’ve learned to ignore them for the most part except to point out my annoyance.

 

[evanfaust]

From your link:

(Yes, Ol’ Joe should have done his homework)

Joseph and Oliver Cowdery were visited by John the Baptist and Elijah. The prophet Elijah also came to the Temple in Kirtland as I addressed before. If you read what I posted you have noticed that Elias is also a title, since John the Baptist is not the prophet Elijah. You have being evasive in all my answers, as I tipically encounter in these forums. Elijah as well as John the Baptist appeared during the first coming of Christ, but the verses that I quoted also state they will appear again before the second coming.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Joseph and Oliver Cowdery were visited by John the Baptist and Elijah.

No, Jose and Oliver said they visited. There is no proof they did, and as Joe was a convicted conman who also fled arrest for a bank scandal, his word is not worth much

 

[why_me]

evanfaust;6716861:

Joseph and Oliver Cowdery were visited by John the Baptist and Elijah.

No, Jose and Oliver said they visited. There is no proof they did, and as Joe was a convicted conman who also fled arrest for a bank scandal, his word is not worth much

There was no bank scandal. And you do need to read up about being a convicted conman. You may be pleasantly surprised. However, you seem to throw things out into the mud…things that have been thrown out before and mormons have responded to them.

Now the bank scandal: the bank went bust along with a host of other banks in the US. If you read the circumstances you will see that the government was not too favorable toward this mormon bank. Also, in Italy, the vatican is also in trouble with one of their banks. Lucklily the Italian government came to the rescue but I wouldn’t call it a catholic bank anymore. See my point?

 

[why_me]

I understand that. Being a Christian is not easy, however I have found in almost every instance, the ‘long winded cut and paste’

1) doesn't respond to my question or inquiry directly, or 
2) only partly answers my question or inquiry

I’m left wading through a sea of paragraphs and after thoroughly reading every last one my conclusion is

1) either you didn't read the paragraphs you just asked me to read, or
2) you're deliberately trying to evade answering my question or inquiry

I’ve learned to ignore them for the most part except to point out my annoyance.

I understand this. These days people want a quick answer in one or two sentences. In the past, reading context and the history behind what one was searching was more in play. Now, make it quick or shut up is the mantra because people want it quick and easy.

Sign of the times:

 

[SirThomasMore]

SirThomasMore;6716910:

There was no bank scandal.

Yes, there was

And you do need to read up about being a convicted conman.

I did. I saw the document from the Court

Now the bank scandal: the bank went bust along with a host of other banks in the US.

lol…that is like saying “Mark Hoffman did not kill anyone because other people also killed people”. No other bank that might have failed was led by a guy who allegedly had a hotline to God. He claimed God told him to do the banks, but God could not tell him how to avoid failing with God’s people’s money? Are you truly believing that?

 

[MelanieAnne]

There may be some value to Mormon “continuing revelation”. Mormon Doctrine has evolved in many ways from the time of the founding of the Mormon faith. Some of these doctrinal changes have been the result of “continuing revelation”.

It’s possible that some future revelation of the Mormon prophet will lead the faith out of the rest of its differences with traditional Christianity.

 

[LongJourney]

It is possible, Melanie. It is the only way they can survive, at this point. However, there will be some splintering at that point.

 

[SirThomasMore]

There may be some value to Mormon “continuing revelation”. Mormon Doctrine has evolved in many ways from the time of the founding of the Mormon faith. Some of these doctrinal changes have been the result of “continuing revelation”.

It’s possible that some future revelation of the Mormon prophet will lead the faith out of the rest of its differences with traditional Christianity.

As time passes, they have changed more and more and run from past doctrine and teaching in order to appear normal. They will continue this whitewashing of their past. It will not be to become more Christian, though that is how it will appear, but rather, it will be to appear more acceptable to true Christians in order to convert them. We need to remain vigilant, strong, and prayerful

 

[twopekinguys]

As time passes, they have changed more and more and run from past doctrine and teaching in order to appear normal. They will continue this whitewashing of their past. It will not be to become more Christian, though that is how it will appear, but rather, it will be to appear more acceptable to true Christians in order to convert them. We need to remain vigilant, strong, and prayerful

Can I get an AMEN up in here!?!

Preach it Brother!!!:clapping:

 

[why_me]

lol…that is like saying “Mark Hoffman did not kill anyone because other people also killed people”. No other bank that might have failed was led by a guy who allegedly had a hotline to God. He claimed God told him to do the banks, but God could not tell him how to avoid failing with God’s people’s money? Are you truly believing that?

I don’t know sirTom. The vatican bank failed in Italy only to be rescued by the Italian government. I suppose the same logic can apply to that bank too. Why couldn’t god inform the vatican adminstrators how to avoid failing?

My guess: god lets us all live and learn. See my point?

Does the same logic apply to the vatican bank that just failed? Or are they exempt from your logic?

 

[MelanieAnne]

As time passes, they have changed more and more and run from past doctrine and teaching in order to appear normal. They will continue this whitewashing of their past. It will not be to become more Christian, though that is how it will appear, but rather, it will be to appear more acceptable to true Christians in order to convert them. We need to remain vigilant, strong, and prayerful

The best thing we can personally do in our own environment, I think, is to apply the vigilance you speak of to making sure that everyone we know learns their faith correctly. We can’t take it for granted. This is the best protection against false doctrine.

 

[catholic-rcia]

I strongly agree!

I know a Hispanic man who converted to the LDS faith 12 years ago. He was never taught his Catholic faith by his parents who split up many years ago when he was six years old. He has been speaking with me. The Missionaries told him that the vision of our lady outside of the city of Mexico by Juan Diego was not true, that it was made up.

He countered with what about the vision that Joseph Smith had? Can I also question that vision? This is happening now. He is starting to ask questions he should have asked 12 years ago. He just did not know. Yesterday he gave me a beautiful picture of the crucified Christ in a Catholic Church. He is now beginning to question why the cross is not in his church. He has heard some of the reasons they give but is having a hard time with them. He told me he sees the joy of our salvation, the pain involved when he looks at the crucifix, the Cristo as he would say.

We also spoke about this continuing revelation and he says he does not agree with it. He sees what Jesus did as all we need to know regarding our salvation. Like a game that was won by Jesus and all of the revelation we receive is about this game that was won. That all we should be doing is going out speaking about the cost, the final score, the victory that took place for each of us.

He is asking what could possibly be added to what Jesus has done for us. Please pray for Jose as he takes this picture of our Crucified Lord , (he has more than one copy) to his Bishop to try and get it into the LDS Spanish Community here in Northern Utah.
In Cristo
Rich
www.utahmission.com

 

[SirThomasMore]

I don’t know sirTom. The vatican bank failed in Italy only to be rescued by the Italian government. I suppose the same logic can apply to that bank too. Why couldn’t god inform the vatican adminstrators how to avoid failing?

The vatican never claimed, as Joe did, that God told him to start the banks. I am amazed that you can;t see the difference

My guess: god lets us all live and learn.

Yes…that is why God led me away from the LDS Church

See my point?

No, Why…you never have a point. I can only imagine that you keep asking people if they see your point because are hoping someone can tell you what it was. I will pray that you stop riding the fence and leave all of the false LDS Church behind

 

[SirThomasMore]

The best thing we can personally do in our own environment, I think, is to apply the vigilance you speak of to making sure that everyone we know learns their faith correctly. We can’t take it for granted. This is the best protection against false doctrine.

We must continue to fight against false prophets and the wolves in sheep’s clothing. The most dangerous part of Mormon ism is that it uses the same words we use, yet those words, like God, Jesus, Scriptures, etc. mean totally different and dangerous things.

We must fight the good fight.

Let us return from that Table like lions breathing out fire, terrifying to the devil!
St. John Chrysostom

He that sees another in error and endeavors not to correct it, testifies himself to be in error.
Pope Leo I

 

[MelanieAnne]

We must continue to fight against false prophets and the wolves in sheep’s clothing. The most dangerous part of Mormon ism is that it uses the same words we use, yet those words, like God, Jesus, Scriptures, etc. mean totally different and dangerous things.

We must fight the good fight.

I submit that most Mormons do not know that their definitions for many of these things are different from traditional Christianity. My experience is that most Mormons are very good and repeating a summary of their doctrine, but not so good at going beyond that.

But I cannot believe the Mormon hierarchy does not know about the differences, and yet they allow this to continue. I can only suppose that defining the differences would be counter-productive to their missionary efforts.

 

[kozlosap]

Being a mormon on this forum is not easy. Usually mormons are outnumbered. To respond to every post by using one’s own words would be very time consuming and there is no assurance that the reader will read the post anyway. Much better to refer to a link where the writing work has already been done. Most Internet Mormons know that FAIR has already done the work because critics usually have the same questions and understandings that are used over and over again.

To my knowledge parker and dianiad seem to use a lot of their own wording in their posts. I am not sure if anyone gains by it. I haven’t seen a catholic who has changed their mind about anything that the two have said to them in their posts.

ParkerD and dianiad do use their own words in describing the articles and basis of the LDS Church to the rest of us Catholics and Protestants and it is refreshing. It is quite obvious from reading their many and varied posts that they don’t need to quote long pieces of scripture be it from the NT or the MoM. They both sound (from their writings) like I could use them when trying to explain economic factors to 9th graders!