Mormon Claims

[Caprica]

yep. in sackcloth

when you see them, let me know

exactly.

And now we see (which has been the entire point) that there will be two prophets, prophesying, after Jesus, even though we are told that prophets are no longer necessary after Jesus. That was the point.

 

[SirThomasMore]

exactly.

And now we see (which has been the entire point) that there will be two prophets, prophesying, after Jesus, even though we are told that prophets are no longer necessary after Jesus. That was the point.

No. The point was that there was no need for continuing line of prophets. No one has ever disputed the prophets mentioned in Revelations.

So, you have proven MY point.

And for that, I thank you.

PS. I will be on the lookout for two folks in sackcloth

 

[Caprica]

No. The point was that there was no need for continuing line of prophets. No one has ever disputed the prophets mentioned in Revelations.

So, you have proven MY point.

And for that, I thank you.

No, the point was about the need for prophets after Jesus (and not necessarily a “continuing line of prophets”, which I have not seen mentioned). The verse was posted in response to this statement-
*
“Jesus left us everything we need. We do not need continuing revelation to spread the gospel. What do Mormons receive in revelation that is an “add on” to what Jesus taught?”*
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6674534&postcount=52
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6677336&postcount=60

So, if Jesus left us “everything we need”, then what are these two prophets doing? What could they possibly be prophesying about when Jesus left us “everything we need”? That is the reasoning behind the posting of this verse.

PS. I will be on the lookout for two folks in sackcloth

As will I.

 

[SirThomasMore]

No, the point was about the need for prophets after Jesus (and not necessarily a “continuing line of prophets”, which I have not seen mentioned). The verse was posted in response to this statement-

No. I know full well what my point was. And you helped prove it for me

 

[Caprica]

No. I know full well what my point was. And you helped prove it for me

Sure. As long as we know that it was your point and not the point that the poster of the verse was making.

 

[Caprica]

To sum up my thoughts on the above issue:

Latter-day Saints claim that prophesy was not to end with Jesus Christ, but that the gift of prophesy continues. Traditional Christians variously claim that public revelation ended with Jesus Christ, or with the death of the last apostle. In this thread, it was stated that

“Jesus left us everything we need. We do not need continuing revelation to spread the gospel. What do Mormons receive in revelation that is an “add on” to what Jesus taught?”

This is a common statement by those that believe that the need for prophets ended with Jesus Christ. In response to the above question, another LDS poster stated:

*"If that is the case, then why would the Book of Revelation talks about prophecy and prophets and new teaching in the Latter Days?

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Rev 11:3

“And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.” Rev11:10"*

Clearly, in Revelation 11, we see the existence of two prophets, after Jesus Christ, prophesying. The point here is that, if Jesus Christ “left us everything we need” (and that prophets are no longer needed), then why will we need these two witnesses that prophesy? What more would they have to say if Jesus left us everything we need? This of course says nothing about the need for other prophets, however it does show that there would be two prophets prophesying after Jesus Christ, who is claimed to have “left us everything we need”, and that we therefore do not need prophets.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Sure. As long as we know that it was your point and not the point that the poster of the verse was making.

You helped me prove MY point AND disprove theirs.

Andf for that, I thank you

 

[stormy99]

Jesus in sacrament meetings,when, where…it was testamonies of Joseph Smith is a prophet, follow the prophet…tithing, have you paid yours, the church is true, Jesus’s message of love was never mentioned. It’s in the name but not the heart of Mormonism…oh and the callings…never mind you aren’t qualified…just do them

Milk before Meat is a joke. When I converted to Catholicism, I attended RCIA classes for a year. During this time we learned everything about what the Church believes so we could choose for ourselves if this was the religion we would choose to know God. Nothing was hidden. The sacraments were discussed in detail, questions were answered. I never once heard oh…you’ll find out about that later…NEVER…The trained priests, deacons were always glad to answer those sticky questions we might have. Not so in the LDS Church…when is an investigator told about the endowment ceremony…I wasn’t…but now you can check the internet. Where in the Bible does it say you need secret signs and tokens to enter heaven…excuse me Celestial Kingdom.

Now what about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and their polgamy…what about the CK and pologamy…what about being a God of your own planet? You need to address these questions and show us where in the Bible these things are because I couldn’t find them.

A religion that is not upfront with it’s converts is not a true church…there should be no surprises regarding Doctrine, your book of D & C which is being pulled off the book shelves of Desseret book stores…Why? it’s not available for general reading…while you can go to Borders and buy a copy of the Cathetcism of the Catholic Church…so you can read what is believed.

My first husband was a Utah Mormon…and all I heard was you don’t need to know this now…well I beg to differ…you do need to know everything about a church you will belong to, everything…good, bad and in between. .What a shock is in store for any one contemplating being a Mormon…especially if they know about Masonic rites…can you imagine their surprise when they go to take out their endowments…and find out what they have to do and listen to?

We did not attend church on Christmas…no mention of Easter…forget Pentecost Sunday…not mentioned…it’s the beginning of the Church…and it’s ignored…why is that?

It’s not just a matter of restoration which is not necessary but the deceit of the Church altogether. Can’t put food on the table, pay your tithing and a miracle will happen…right.

Helping others, charity…no…building a huge mall in SLC sure enough…but no help for the struggling members.

The church rips families apart if one chooses to leave…or if one chooses to marry a never mormon…that I know first hand.

All the arugments above show a made up religion…

Now can you answer my questions?

stormy

 

[stormy99]

Witnesses…and where is the sackcloth on Joseph Smith? If he is one of the witnesses, it doesn’t add up at all. Where is the other witness/prophet? What will he tell the world?
stormy

 

[Caprica]

Witnesses…and where is the sackcloth on Joseph Smith? If he is one of the witnesses, it doesn’t add up at all. Where is the other witness/prophet? What will he tell the world?
stormy

Sorry, it seems as if you are confused as to what we were discussing. No one claimed that Joseph Smith was one of the witnesses in the verse in question.

 

[Caprica]

]Jesus in sacrament meetings,when, where…it was testamonies of Joseph Smith is a prophet, follow the prophet…tithing, have you paid yours, the church is true, Jesus’s message of love was never mentioned. It’s in the name but not the heart of Mormonism…oh and the callings…never mind you aren’t qualified…just do them

I am unsure of which Sacrament Meetings you have been attending, however at the ones that I attend, Jesus is consistently mentioned, and He is at the center of the LDS faith. It is only through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we have salvation, and it is only through His atonement that we believe any of our ordinances, blessings, etc. have any efficacy.

Milk before Meat is a joke. When I converted to Catholicism, I attended RCIA classes for a year. During this time we learned everything about what the Church believes so we could choose for ourselves if this was the religion we would choose to know God. Nothing was hidden. The sacraments were discussed in detail, questions were answered. I never once heard oh…you’ll find out about that later…NEVER…The trained priests, deacons were always glad to answer those sticky questions we might have. Not so in the LDS Church…when is an investigator told about the endowment ceremony…I wasn’t…but now you can check the internet. Where in the Bible does it say you need secret signs and tokens to enter heaven…excuse me Celestial Kingdom.

Firstly, it is always interesting when a member of a non-sola scriptura faith (such as Catholicism or Mormonism) asks a question beginning with “where in the Bible does it say…”. First it must be established that the Bible says that everything must be found in the Bible. We both know it isn’t there, since both the Catholic Church and the LDS Church reject such a claim.

I think that the “milk before meat” issue is blown out of proportion, and is really in practice in the vast majority of religions, in addition to academics. One must have a foundation of the basics before understanding more complex issues. One must study Computer Science I before studying Advanced Microprocessors. One must study General Biology I and II before studying Virology. Etc.

As a convert, I was curious about the Endowment, because I had heard much about it, mostly from the critical side. When I asked the missionaries about it, they directed me to various sources that discuss the purpose of the endowment. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism is also a good resource on that issue. I did not expect to know the specifics of words and actions during the ordinance, however, I wouldn’t be able to ask a member of certain Catholic orders the particulars of some of their ceremonies/“initiations”, etc.

Now what about Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and their polgamy…what about the CK and pologamy…what about being a God of your own planet? You need to address these questions and show us where in the Bible these things are because I couldn’t find them.

See above. You need to address where in the Bible it says that everything must be found in the Bible, because I couldn’t find that. Since LDS do not believe this (and neither do Catholics), why would we have to show you that?

A religion that is not upfront with it’s converts is not a true church…there should be no surprises regarding Doctrine, your book of D & C which is being pulled off the book shelves of Desseret book stores…Why? it’s not available for general reading…while you can go to Borders and buy a copy of the Cathetcism of the Catholic Church…so you can read what is believed.

Uh what? The Doctrine and Covenants is readily found in Deseret Book, and can be read online (along with the rest of LDS scriptures) for free:

beta.lds.org/scriptures?lang=eng

I assume you meant that the book Mormon Doctrine is being pulled off the shelves, which is not an official LDS work on par with the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

My first husband was a Utah Mormon…and all I heard was you don’t need to know this now…well I beg to differ…you do need to know everything about a church you will belong to, everything…good, bad and in between. .What a shock is in store for any one contemplating being a Mormon…especially if they know about Masonic rites…can you imagine their surprise when they go to take out their endowments…and find out what they have to do and listen to?

Hi, I’m a convert, and have been Endowed.

Also, no convert to any faith knows everything about that religion. I assume that you learned all about all of the Ecumenical Councils in RCIA, the Oriental Orthodox schism, the particulars about the Eastern Orthodox schism, the Avignon Papacy, etc.

Also, I am unsure of why Masonry is always an issue (though it makes sense from the Catholic perspective, where Catholicism has a historically negative view of it).

We did not attend church on Christmas…no mention of Easter…forget Pentecost Sunday…not mentioned…it’s the beginning of the Church…and it’s ignored…why is that?

Sorry, we recognize the birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ in our own ways, especially with our families.

It’s not just a matter of restoration which is not necessary but the deceit of the Church altogether. Can’t put food on the table, pay your tithing and a miracle will happen…right.

what?

Helping others, charity…no…building a huge mall in SLC sure enough…but no help for the struggling members.

Sorry, this sentence shows a lack of understanding of what the LDS Church actually does in this area.

 

[MelanieAnne]

PS. I will be on the lookout for two folks in sackcloth

Sounds scratchy and uncomfortable. Are ashes also required?

 

[Javl]

Caprica:

I have to agree with stormy99. There is much that is hidden and denied by the LDS church while the Catholic Church is open. It has aired its dirty laundry and has never denied its black moments in history. Its archival library is open to all serious scholars and theologians, regardless of religious affiliation. It receives and accepts more converts that are true than all other religions combined, and yet it has the strictest moral and religious code of all. Can the LDS church compare?

I also have one question that has never been answered. Joseph Smith had claimed that the Book of Mormon “is the most correct book ever written”. If this is so then why has it been necessary to revise it ( and not for typographical or grammatical errors alone ) so many times?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Caprica]

Caprica:

I have to agree with stormy99. There is much that is hidden and denied by the LDS church while the Catholic Church is open. It has aired its dirty laundry and has never denied its black moments in history. Its archival library is open to all serious scholars and theologians, regardless of religious affiliation. It receives and accepts more converts that are true than all other religions combined, and yet it has the strictest moral and religious code of all. Can the LDS church compare?

The LDS Church and its members readily discuss past issues such as MMM, the priesthood ban, etc. I am unsure of what you mean by “converts that are true”. It is not just about the numbers, but also about the numbers of those who are actually practicing as well. Surveys such as those by the Pew Forum are always interesting (I believe that I’ve also seen stats by Georgetown University on the Catholic Church).

I also have one question that has never been answered. Joseph Smith had claimed that the Book of Mormon “is the most correct book ever written”. If this is so then why has it been necessary to revise it ( and not for typographical or grammatical errors alone ) so many times?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Simple: “most correct book” does not mean perfect. As an analogy, if a person had the “most correct exam” out of everyone in the class, that does not necessarily mean that he received 100%.

 

[SirThomasMore]

The LDS Church and its members readily discuss past issues such as MMM, the priesthood ban, etc. I am unsure of what you mean by “converts that are true”. It is not just about the numbers, but also about the numbers of those who are actually practicing as well. Surveys such as those by the Pew Forum are always interesting (I believe that I’ve also seen stats by Georgetown University on the Catholic Church).

Simple: “most correct book” does not mean perfect. As an analogy, if a person had the “most correct exam” out of everyone in the class, that does not necessarily mean that he received 100%.

Correct how? We know it not correct grammar. We know it is not correct history. We know it is not correct science. We know it is not correct anthropology or geology, or any other ology. We know it is not correct doctrine. What exactly is it the most correct of?

 

[stormy99]

I am unsure of which Sacrament Meetings you have been attending, however at the ones that I attend, Jesus is consistently mentioned, and He is at the center of the LDS faith. It is only through the Atonement of Jesus Christ that we have salvation, and it is only through His atonement that we believe any of our ordinances, blessings, etc. have any efficacy.

try for starters Logan Ut…it’s not about Jesus…it’s about following the prophet period…doing deeds, paying tithing…kept in the dark to get into the celestial kingdom…

Firstly, it is always interesting when a member of a non-sola scriptura faith (such as Catholicism or Mormonism) asks a question beginning with “where in the Bible does it say…”. First it must be established that the Bible says that everything must be found in the Bible.
What in the world does that mean…you say it must be established that the Bible says that everything must be found in the Bible…explain that one please…and I never saw a bible in the home of my ex husband…ever…
.

I think that the “milk before meat” issue is blown out of proportion, and is really in practice in the vast majority of religions, in addition to academics.

A foundation to find out the endowment ceremony has a movie with Satan as the Star…not Jesus…Satan…One must know exactly what the faith professes before they join…that means everything! Not just the nicey nice things the mishies want you to know…eternal families etc…

As a convert, I was curious about the Endowment, because I had heard much about it, mostly from the critical side. When I asked the missionaries about it, they directed me to various sources that discuss the purpose of the endowment.

The purpose but not the ceremony I notice…when I was confirmed our priest told us exactly what would happen…we went into the church and saw exactly where it would take place and knew exactly what would be said at the time…there were no surprises…Absolutely none…the Sacrament of Reconcillation was carefully explained…the examining of conscious…how to make a good confession so those of us that were Protestant and did dial direct would know precisely what to expect…and it wasn’t an interview. It was the priest and I…I was confessing…he was not inquiring…my ex Mormon family told me all about the Bishop Interview sessions…just what one needs an untrained person asking about your sex life…and doing this with children…spare me that one.
The Encyclopedia of Mormonism is also a good resource on that issue. I did not expect to know the specifics of words and actions during the ordinance, however, I wouldn’t be able to ask a member of certain Catholic orders the particulars of some of their ceremonies/“initiations”, etc.

Not only did I expect to know the specific words and actions of confirmation, we were told them and showed them. There were NO surprises…I knew I would renounce Satan…I knew the responses I would be give…no one had to tell me…

Also, no convert to any faith knows everything about that religion. I assume that you learned all about all of the Ecumenical Councils in RCIA, the Oriental Orthodox schism, the particulars about the Eastern Orthodox schism, the Avignon Papacy, etc.

They learn or should learn everything that is important…Yes we did learn about the Ecomenical Councils…the schism…yes I did learn about the Avignon Papacy and St. Catherine of Sienna…yes I did study Vatican ll. We went through the history of the Church…we went through each sacrament one by one…all questions were answered, every one of them…unlike…YOU DON’T NEED TO KNOW THAT NOW./COLOR]

Also, I am unsure of why Masonry is always an issue (though it makes sense from the Catholic perspective, where Catholicism has a historically negative view of it).

Gee I wonder the signs on the garments are identical…the rites are about identical…the ceremonies were lifted from the Masonic ceremony…Joseph Smith had just become a Mason…public knowledge.

Sorry, we recognize the birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ in our own ways, especially with our families.

You might but it’s not standard practice in families…Christmas he was never mentioned once ever…it’s his birthday…it could of been any day of the year…nothing special…same with Easter…forget Good Friday when he died on the cross for us…nothing done…

Now please answer my questions on polgamy …Joseph Smith and his I believe 31 or 33 wives…some who were wives of other men who were sent away on missions…or the 55 wives of Brigham Young…

Also answer my question on just how does one get into the Celestial Kingdom…you have to jump through many hoops for that one…and what about the Second Annointing of special Mormons…they get a free pass to the CK…where of course you can become a god of your own planet…please set me straight on that one. My ex husband hemmed and hawed about that one…when I truly learned how secret and deceitful the Mormon Church was…that was the end…no more of not knowing…

I chose a religion where everything…good and bad are out there for everyone to see…and you can look in their library…there is no access to Mormon literature…tapirs and all…
Science says no and so does common sense…

Until you are open about your religion you will not be seen as Christian in any respect…just won’t work…but you can try…

Oh…and what about “dead dunking”…my ex can and says he will do it to me…he likes me better than his present wife…he’ll be calling my name…and I will with Our Lord Jesus Christ…and not on Kolob…or any other planet…

stormy

 

[Javl]

The LDS Church and its members readily discuss past issues such as MMM, the priesthood ban, etc. I am unsure of what you mean by “converts that are true”. It is not just about the numbers, but also about the numbers of those who are actually practicing as well. Surveys such as those by the Pew Forum are always interesting (I believe that I’ve also seen stats by Georgetown University on the Catholic Church).

By “true” I mean that they are truly devout and firm in their newfound faith. I should have used a better term or meaning. The majority of Catholics do practice their faith. I do admit that those that are “in name only” probably have never seen the inside of a church. Also, it is these "catholics, along with the “cafeteria” types that are the ones that complain the loudest and are more apt to leave Catholicism, and no matter where they go they will still complain and leave.

Simple: “most correct book” does not mean perfect. As an analogy, if a person had the “most correct exam” out of everyone in the class, that does not necessarily mean that he received 100%.

It may not mean perfect in your opinion, but according to JS’s meaning there were absolutely no errors in it and therefore required no updating or corrections ( it was perfect ). Also according to JS, it was more correct than the Bible!

Thank you for your answer.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Caprica]

try for starters Logan Ut…it’s not about Jesus…it’s about following the prophet period…doing deeds, paying tithing…kept in the dark to get into the celestial kingdom…

Sorry, this is untrue. For Latter-day Saints, it is all about Jesus Christ, and everything we do and believe is only possible because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. This is no different than Catholics who have sacraments, the necessity of being in union with the Bishop of Rome, fasting, doing deeds/works, etc. We both believe that what we do is because of Jesus Christ.

What in the world does that mean…you say it must be established that the Bible says that everything must be found in the Bible…explain that one please…and I never saw a bible in the home of my ex husband…ever…

This is simple. You are taking a sola scriptura approach, where you are asking for [all] things to be demonstrated in the Bible, when it is clear that the Bible itself nowhere claims that all beliefs must be found within it. LDS reject sola scriptura, as do Catholics. Therefore, it is unnecessary to “prove” certain beliefs from the Bible, since we don’t believe that it has to be found there in the first place. If you believe that all beliefs must be found in the Bible, then please cite the Biblical book, chapter and verse that states that all beliefs must be found within “the Bible”.
.

A foundation to find out the endowment ceremony has a movie with Satan as the Star…not Jesus…Satan…One must know exactly what the faith professes before they join…that means everything! Not just the nicey nice things the mishies want you to know…eternal families etc…

The Endowment does not have Satan as its star. I assume that you have never been through the Endowment. In fact, you can readily find the Endowment script online (obviously at non-LDS official/apologetic sources), and see that your claim is false.

No convert knows everything that a faith teaches before conversion. In the Bible, we see that the first converts to Christianity certainly were not taught absolutely everything before their baptism.

The purpose but not the ceremony I notice…when I was confirmed our priest told us exactly what would happen…we went into the church and saw exactly where it would take place and knew exactly what would be said at the time…there were no surprises…Absolutely none…the Sacrament of Reconcillation was carefully explained…the examining of conscious…how to make a good confession so those of us that were Protestant and did dial direct would know precisely what to expect…and it wasn’t an interview. It was the priest and I…I was confessing…he was not inquiring…my ex Mormon family told me all about the Bishop Interview sessions…just what one needs an untrained person asking about your sex life…and doing this with children…spare me that one.

Before I was baptized and confirmed I knew exactly what was going to be said and done. With the Endowment, one only needs to read the Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry, for one, to have a good idea about what occurs:
eom.byu.edu/index.php/Endowment

Not only did I expect to know the specific words and actions of confirmation, we were told them and showed them. There were NO surprises…I knew I would renounce Satan…I knew the responses I would be give…no one had to tell me…

Wonderful, and I knew the specific words and actions of my confirmation as well.

They learn or should learn everything that is important…Yes we did learn about the Ecomenical Councils…the schism…yes I did learn about the Avignon Papacy and St. Catherine of Sienna…yes I did study Vatican ll. We went through the history of the Church…we went through each sacrament one by one…all questions were answered, every one of them…unlike…YOU DON’T NEED TO KNOW THAT NOW./COLOR]

So you learned about all 21 of the Ecumenical Councils, who convened them, why, what they covered, etc? As well as the Avignon Papacy. And I assume you also will say that you covered the Nestorians, Eastern Catholicism, the Tusculan Papacy, etc. A quick search of RCIA curricula calls that into question. But again, I don’t expect any religion to teach every historical or doctrinal point to converts. I do expect that the central points would be known.

Gee I wonder the signs on the garments are identical…the rites are about identical…the ceremonies were lifted from the Masonic ceremony…Joseph Smith had just become a Mason…public knowledge.

Sorry, the rites are not “about identical”. Again, you can look up the Endowment ceremony online and see that this is not true. There are parts that are found in Freemasonry as well, which make up a small portion of the ceremony. And yes, this is public knowledge. A LDS recently published the book “Exploring the Connection Between Mormons and Masons”. The same author (Matthew Brown) also discusses Freemasonry and the temple in his book “The Gate of Heaven: Insights on the Doctrines and Symbols of the Temple”.

And really, I don’t see why this is problematic. Catholicism is frequently critiqued for “baptizing”/Christianizing certain pagan customs/holidays/etc. If these things are turned towards Christ, I don’t see what the issue is here.

 

[Caprica]

You might but it’s not standard practice in families…Christmas he was never mentioned once ever…it’s his birthday…it could of been any day of the year…nothing special…same with Easter…forget Good Friday when he died on the cross for us…nothing done…

I assume you are aware that we do not have a liturgical calendar. We readily celebrate the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We don’t need a liturgical calendar with a specific day set to do that.

Now please answer my questions on polgamy …Joseph Smith and his I believe 31 or 33 wives…some who were wives of other men who were sent away on missions…or the 55 wives of Brigham Young…

Okay…

Also answer my question on just how does one get into the Celestial Kingdom…you have to jump through many hoops for that one…and what about the Second Annointing of special Mormons…they get a free pass to the CK…where of course you can become a god of your own planet…please set me straight on that one. My ex husband hemmed and hawed about that one…when I truly learned how secret and deceitful the Mormon Church was…that was the end…no more of not knowing…

To get to the Celestial Kingdom, one must have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of their sins, be baptized by the proper authority, and be confirmed. This is what is required to enter into the presence of God in the Celestial Kingdom. Now, to be exalted, which is the highest degree of glory within the Celestial Kingdom, to be joint-heirs with Christ, one also needs to be eternally married and be Endowed (if they are male, they also must hold the priesthood).

I chose a religion where everything…good and bad are out there for everyone to see…and you can look in their library…there is no access to Mormon literature…tapirs and all…
Science says no and so does common sense…

What do you mean that there is no access to Mormon literature? What literature are you talking about?

Until you are open about your religion you will not be seen as Christian in any respect…just won’t work…but you can try…

We are quite open about our religion, and readily discuss it with others. However there are certain things that we believe are very sacred, and will not discuss specifics on. We will tell you the purpose of the Endowment, and tell you in general terms what happens.

Oh…and what about “dead dunking”…my ex can and says he will do it to me…he likes me better than his present wife…he’ll be calling my name…and I will with Our Lord Jesus Christ…and not on Kolob…or any other planet…

stormy

By “dead dunking” (this is not a phrase Latter-day Saints use) I assume you are talking about baptism for the dead. We believe that baptism for the dead provides an opportunity for someone to accept or reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It does not “force” someone to become a LDS. Free agency or choice is very important in my faith, and we don’t believe that someone can be forced to do or believe something that they do not want to. So, if we are correct, and you are proxy baptized, you do not have to accept it in the afterlife. We still retain our free will.

 

[stormy99]

Than what is he? Who are these prophets?

And can you answer my questions?

I lived in Mormon UT…It’s not a good place to live if you are not a Mormon…and no one will answer those kind of questions, including you…why not? What is being hidden…

Christians believe in one God…they do not believe that we can become like God…and have our own planet. Please explain that to all of us…To believe in more than one God is heresy and you know what happened to them in the Old Testament…God is very unhappy…You shall have no other God…to me that clearly means men will not become Gods and father spirits to colonize another world…just won’t happen. Also what about Mary, the Mother of Jesus…is she with Heavenly Father? No one mentions her at all…but then good Mormon women will spend Time and All Eternity having spirit babies…on their on planet. Until that factor is gone…pologamy exists in the CK…men can have more than one wife in the CK…that is polgamy no matter what you say and how you try to spin it…

Living in Mormon UT opened my eyes to a cult…not a religion.

stormy