Mormon Claims

[why_me]

SirThomasMore:
Sir Tom writes:

There isn’t. Just an attitude of wanting to help those who have been as fooled by false prophets as those who drank the grape flavor iade for Jim Jones.

And of course here you lost the argument because of such a comparison. But let me respond: Again, I bring up the religious wars that engulfed europe. Is it the same as when thousands of people went to their deaths because catholic and protestant leaders were encouraging war. Were they not playing follow the leader and drinking their own koolaid?

 

[why_me]

why me-That really doesn’t make sense though. We need one, valid interpretation, or else we’d be force to accept that the Bible is telling different people different and conflicting things, which is impossible.

Yes we do. But we don’t have it. Why? Because chritian faiths are competing against eachother and interpretating the bible to suit their own ends.

Now I would claim that it can be only the mormon and catholic church that has the power to make a valid interpretation. Protestants have given up that right. So the question is: which church is taking the lead with interpretations.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Sir Tom writes:

There isn’t. Just an attitude of wanting to help those who have been as fooled by false prophets as those who drank the grape flavor iade for Jim Jones.

And of course here you lost the argument because of such a comparison.

I was not arguing. So, I lost nothing. And as long as I proclaim truth, I lose nothing. If you were arguing, it was with yourself

But let me respond: Again, I bring up the religious wars that engulfed europe. Is it the same as when thousands of people went to their deaths because catholic and protestant leaders were encouraging war. Were they not playing follow the leader and drinking their own koolaid?

Red herring…but I admire your effort. See, you have already admitted that you argue for the sake of argument and being contrary. So, knock yourself out. I have proclaimed truth, you are free to continue riding fences.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Yes we do. But we don’t have it. Why? Because chritian faiths are competing against eachother and interpretating the bible to suit their own ends.

Now I would claim that it can be only the mormon and catholic church that has the power to make a valid interpretation. Protestants have given up that right. So the question is: which church is taking the lead with interpretations.

We do have disagreements with the Protestants. But we all believe in One and the same God. It is the Mormon Church that has given up the right to be Christian because they have accepted a completely different belief system than Catholics and our Protestant friends in faith. The Church taking the lead on interpretations is the Church Christ established, He being God the eternal Son. He told us that He would be with us always, that He would never leave us orphaned. That He would guide us to all truth. The Catholic Church has the fullness of His truth because Jesus is the Church, we being members of His body. It is the 2000 year old Mass that has brought Christ to me and others to His table. Unless you believe in the most Holy Trinity you will not understand what I am saying here. Your faith has set itself apart from God in a way that makes original sin a good thing. It’s not confusing, Its truth. As a baptized Catholic, baptized into the Holy Trinity who knows the Holy Spirit I can say this is truth and really mean it without question. I am Catholic. I believe in One God. I know that I have been created by God and given His spirit to guide me. To guide me to Him, to place Him above all things in my life. For it is in God that we find our lives. It is apart from God no matter how nice we may be that we loose our lives. We will not have a share in an eternal life with God along with the Holy Family of God if we do not acknowledge Him as Creator of all things and surrender ourselves completely over to Him In Jesus. There is no where else to go worth living. If we fall into ourselves and choose this over Him we will spend all of eternity away from God, we will get what we will get. I feel that the confusion seen at this board may be a glimpse of what hell will be like.
An eternity of not being able to put anything into any real; order. With God all things will be in perfect order. I have found this to be very much true as a Catholic. I can put my finger on all of it as it always makes sense. Like sin within the church, within all of us…this is reality…this is why we attend. We have no one to impress, we come to Jesus as we are, and he comes to us as we are and helps us to become who we can become in Him, for Him, because of Him….for others. .

 

[catholic-rcia]

Sir Tom writes:

There isn’t. Just an attitude of wanting to help those who have been as fooled by false prophets as those who drank the grape flavor iade for Jim Jones.

And of course here you lost the argument because of such a comparison. But let me respond: Again, I bring up the religious wars that engulfed europe. Is it the same as when thousands of people went to their deaths because catholic and protestant leaders were encouraging war. Were they not playing follow the leader and drinking their own koolaid?

Pointing out sin in the Catholic Church only points to the reality of sin. Are you yourself sinless? We are in Gods Church because we are all sinners in transition. Saint Paul was not in the church because he was perfect nor was Peter who denied Jesus three times. Thomas who could not believe unless he touched the wounds, Judas, we can not forget that he was also an Apostle. This is our Church. Reality of why we all need Jesus as its head. Why we need the sacrament of confession, why we need the Holy Eucharist. Point out the sins of the Catholic Church and I will point out the Crucifix in it and say yes to your accusations.
I would invite you to enter as an admitted sinner and stand under this crucifix with us. There is a certain calm that enters in. He takes away the sins of the world, yours and mine. This is not a boy scouts club where one can enter in and advance in merit. No this is a place where one enters in and goes down rather than up. Down into the concrete in order to have a need to be lifted up. Peter understands this, Paul understands this, Thomas understands this, Judas did not get this. Gods mercy is great on sinners, you just have to understand what sin is in order to be able to go down deep enough to realize how much you really need Jesus, How much his death on a Cross has done for you and I. And even in this , because of all of this so much joy is found. Life really begins to get good. Even when it is not.

 

[ParkerD]

Catholic-rcia,
Eve didn’t choose the “empty promise of Satan.” She chose the way that had been presented to her to obtain knowledge of good and evil, or in another word, wisdom. She sought wisdom for herself and Adam, knowing there would be consequences but willing to face them. Wisdom is the path to a fullness of joy–not remaining in innocence and lack of experience.

I choose wisdom and experience over innocence and a cocoon of ease.

Satan chooses to rule by force and fear. I choose against force, fear, and those kinds of tactics even by those who think they are presenting teachings of the Bible. I choose faith, not fear, and light in its purity as amply given by Christ and presented throughout the Bible…

 

[SirThomasMore]

Catholic-rcia,
Eve didn’t choose the “empty promise of Satan.” She chose the way that had been presented to her to obtain knowledge of good and evil, or in another word, wisdom. She sought wisdom for herself and Adam, knowing there would be consequences but willing to face them. Wisdom is the path to a fullness of joy–not remaining in innocence and lack of experience.

I choose wisdom and experience over innocence and a cocoon of ease.

Satan chooses to rule by force and fear. I choose against force, fear, and those kinds of tactics even by those who think they are presenting teachings of the Bible. I choose faith, not fear, and light in its purity as amply given by Christ and presented throughout the Bible…

If only you would follow the true God and not the false god worshipped by Mormons. It has been shown that Mormonism is not compatible with the Bible and/or the teachyings of God

 

[twopekinguys]

Catholic-rcia,
Eve didn’t choose the “empty promise of Satan.” She chose the way that had been presented to her to obtain knowledge of good and evil, or in another word, wisdom. She sought wisdom for herself and Adam, knowing there would be consequences but willing to face them. Wisdom is the path to a fullness of joy–not remaining in innocence and lack of experience.

I choose wisdom and experience over innocence and a cocoon of ease.

Satan chooses to rule by force and fear. I choose against force, fear, and those kinds of tactics even by those who think they are presenting teachings of the Bible. I choose faith, not fear, and light in its purity as amply given by Christ and presented throughout the Bible…

How could Eve choose wisdom, when she didn’t know what wisdom or knowledge was?

How could she know what the consequences were prior to taking the apple since she didn’t have the wisdom?

Satan doesn’t only rule by force or fear. He also deceives people in ways that don’t require either one.

Sorry, none of your suppositions here really work.
She did it because satan presented an empty promise.

 

[campeador]

She chose the way that had been presented to her to obtain knowledge of good and evil, or in another word, wisdom.

Eve chose a lie instead of the truth. John 8:44 :

He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

There can be no wisdom gained from falsehood, no matter how closely it resembles the truth.
Prov 2:6-8 :

For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
He stores up sound wisdom for the upright; He is a shield to those who walk in integrity…

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Yes we do. But we don’t have it. Why? Because chritian faiths are competing against eachother and interpretating the bible to suit their own ends.

Now I would claim that it can be only the mormon and catholic church that has the power to make a valid interpretation. Protestants have given up that right. So the question is: which church is taking the lead with interpretations.

I argue that only four Bible-reading churches should ever really be even considered by one who’s searching. These four are the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the LDS Church, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, because they’re the only four that claim infallability.

Jehovah’s Witnesses can be quickly eliminated by any sort of careful reading of Scripture. I think the LDS Church doesn’t have enough witnesses and enough historical basis; it too can be eliminated pretty quickly.

The conflict between Catholic and Orthodox is probably the toughest to decide, but I think that by looking objectively at the history one will definitely conclude that the Catholic Church is the true Church.

I don’t even think Mormonism counts as a Christian religion. They deny Jesus is the Son of God.

Frankly, I think Mormonism should be held highly suspect.

 

[SirThomasMore]

it is more than highly suspect. I have shown verses that totally disprove Mormon Doctrine. I have shown quotes from LDS Leaders that show they did NOT have the Spirit, and I have shown quotes from “prophets” that show they never received anything from God

 

[campeador]

…and I have shown quotes from “prophets” that show they never received anything from God.

And I’m still waiting for someone to tell me when God was supposed to have fulfilled these ‘prophesies’:

…I will give this city (Salem) into your hands, that you shall have power over it…

and

Concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them.

Doctrines and Covenants, section 111

 

[evanfaust]

I notice the holy ghost you saw didn’t confirm Jesus, but he did JS.

That’s interesting.

It is very difficult to describe a strong spiritual manifestation! I already knew that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God, but I needed to know for sure if Joseph Smith was His prophet, the Book of Mormon was true scripture and that the LDS Church was the true church of Jesus Christ on the earth! All of that was confirmed to me through pure light and inteligence of the spirit! No question about it! It is much more inclusive than you imagine!

 

[SirThomasMore]

It is very difficult to describe a strong spiritual manifestation! I already knew that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God, but I needed to know for sure if Joseph Smith was His prophet, the Book of Mormon was true scripture and that the LDS Church was the true church of Jesus Christ on the earth! All of that was confirmed to me through pure light and inteligence of the spirit! No question about it! It is much more inclusive than you imagine!

I will pray that the Real Holy Spirit leads you away from a “church” that has been shown to be led by false prophets and that we have shown is incompatible with the Bible.

 

[twopekinguys]

It is very difficult to describe a strong spiritual manifestation! I already knew that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God, but I needed to know for sure if Joseph Smith was His prophet, the Book of Mormon was true scripture and that the LDS Church was the true church of Jesus Christ on the earth! All of that was confirmed to me through pure light and inteligence of the spirit! No question about it! It is much more inclusive than you imagine!

But if you knew that Jesus is the son of God, then there would be no need to confirm JS.

 

[evanfaust]

I will pray that the Real Holy Spirit leads you away from a “church” that has been shown to be led by false prophets and that we have shown is incompatible with the Bible.

Thanks Sir! But you are misled! I will pray for you too! Mormonism is compatible to the Bible, however the Bible does not contain everything, as the word of God has no end and his knowledge is infinite and he can reveal many more important things to the salvation of men on the earth! Not everthing was revealed before, and we see evidence that the Lord and the Apostles kept many truths from being recorded and from the public.

 

[evanfaust]

I argue that only four Bible-reading churches should ever really be even considered by one who’s searching. These four are the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the LDS Church, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, because they’re the only four that claim infallability.

Jehovah’s Witnesses can be quickly eliminated by any sort of careful reading of Scripture. I think the LDS Church doesn’t have enough witnesses and enough historical basis; it too can be eliminated pretty quickly.

The conflict between Catholic and Orthodox is probably the toughest to decide, but I think that by looking objectively at the history one will definitely conclude that the Catholic Church is the true Church.

I don’t even think Mormonism counts as a Christian religion. They deny Jesus is the Son of God.

Frankly, I think Mormonism should be held highly suspect.

Using the four churches that you selected I would say that the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the authority to act in the name of God. They just interpret the Bible and the same argument is valid for any Protestant church. The Catholic and Orthodox claim to be a continuation of the Church of Jesus Christ. However, they not only appear different in structure, since they do not have Apostles and Prophets, but the teachings are very contrary to what is taught in the Bible. God in the past always revealed His word to Prophets or apostles that received revelation and neither the Catholics or Orthodox claim to have prophets, Apostles or revelation, so they can be also eliminated.

The only Church that claims to have Prophets, Apostles and continues to receive revelation is the Mormon Church. The Mormons Church not only have the structure, but the teachings are compatible to the Bible as far as the Bible can tell. Then it must be concluded that Mormonism is the only true Christian Church.

“Despise not prophesyings.”
Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 5:20

“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city…”

– Jesus Christ, in Matthew 23:34

“Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”

– Amos 3:7

“As my Father hath sent me, even so I send you.”
– John 20:21

 

[SirThomasMore]

Thanks Sir! But you are misled!

No, I WAS misled, but then God led me out of the LDS Church

I will pray for you too!

Please don’t. You do not pray to the true God of the Bible

Mormonism is compatible to the Bible,

No, it isn’t. I have already shown that to believe Mormonism is to believe God is a liar

 

[SirThomasMore]

Using the four churches that you selected I would say that the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the authority to act in the name of God. They just interpret the Bible and the same argument is valid for any Protestant church.

And the LDS Church, which follows false prophets

The Catholic and Orthodox claim to be a continuation of the Church of Jesus Christ. However, they not only appear different in structure, since they do not have Apostles and Prophets

Not required, as has already been shown

, but the teachings are very contrary to what is taught in the Bible.

lolololol…no…the LDS Church is who makes stuff up. God say he is THE only God and there are no God beofre or after Him, but Mormons believe there were Gods before God, there are plural Gods now, and thatr you can become Gods. God is NOT a liar, depsite what your prophets teach

God in the past always revealed His word to Prophets

yes…in the past…PRIOR to Jesus

The only Church that claims to have Prophets, Apostles and continues to receive revelation is the Mormon Church. The Mormons Church not only have the structure, but the teachings are compatible to the Bible as far as the Bible can tell. Then it must be concluded that Mormonism is the only true Christian Church.

No, it can be concluded, by your teachings, that your god is not the God of the Bible, and that your peaders do NOT have the Spiirit, as I have demonstrated the BY quotes thread that Mormons are afraid and unable to respond to

 

[evanfaust]

I will pray for you too!

Please don’t. You do not pray to the true God of the Bible

That reveals everything about you! I don’t think I need to spell it out!

Mormonism is compatible to the Bible,

No, it isn’t. I have already shown that to believe Mormonism is to believe God is a liar

In your mind you THINK you have shown something, but to me you have shown NOTHING!/