Mormon Claims

  • Thread starter Thread starter SirThomasMore
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
evanfaust said:
SirThomasMore;6691477:
I will pray for you too!

Please don’t. You do not pray to the true God of the Bible
Click to expand...
That reveals everything about you! I don’t think I need to spell it out!

Mormonism is compatible to the Bible,

No, it isn’t. I have already shown that to believe Mormonism is to believe God is a liar

**In your mind you THINK you have shown something, but to me you have shown NOTHING!/**QUOTE]

Actually, I have…but as the REAL Jesus proclaimed, there are some who the seeds will fall on and nothing will happen
Click to expand...
 
No, Catholicism has no Apostles in its Church hierarchy. True. This would be impossible since the Apostles died. Lucky for us Jesus appointed successors to the Apostles. They are known as the Bishops.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
No, Catholicism has no Apostles in its Church hierarchy. True. This would be impossible since the Apostles died. Lucky for us Jesus appointed successors to the Apostles. They are known as the Bishops.
Click to expand...
Would you care to show evidence of that in the Bible? Apostles were ordained even after the resurrection of Christ, Paul is an example of that and he was an Apostle and not a Bishop. The same goes for Mathias and others! If the intention was to have bishops succeeding the Apostles then there would be no need for new apostles after the death of Christ, but the records tell us otherwise!
 
you seem so bent on apostles, yet your doctrine calls God a liar.

How very odd
 
catholic-rcia said:
We do have disagreements with the Protestants. But we all believe in One and the same God. It is the Mormon Church that has given up the right to be Christian because they have accepted a completely different belief system than Catholics and our Protestant friends in faith.

It may be the case now that catholics and certain protestants are friends in faith, but it was not always the case. It took years of reapproachment by catholic and the protestant churches. A case in point is again the religious wars that engulfed Europe for a couple of hundred years. Catholics and protestants were killing each other being encouraged on by church leaders. And the similiar belief in the Trinity did not bring peace but corrupted power did bring on war.

Let mormons be mormons and catholic/protestants be what they are too. And everyone will be much happier.
Click to expand...
 
You know, you actually made a good point there. I concede it. The Apsotles ARE still around. We just call them the Bishops.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
I think the LDS Church doesn’t have enough witnesses and enough historical basis; it too can be eliminated pretty quickly.

The conflict between Catholic and Orthodox is probably the toughest to decide, but I think that by looking objectively at the history one will definitely conclude that the Catholic Church is the true Church.

I don’t even think Mormonism counts as a Christian religion. They deny Jesus is the Son of God.
Click to expand...
Mormonism has 11 eyewitnesses to the book of mormon. That is quite a lot. And then, if we count the wives of these men, it becomes more. Very few men can keep such a lie or truth from their wives. It would come out.

What counts as a christian religion and mormons do not deny Jesus is the son of god. Just the opposite. Mormons claim that Jesus was god’s first son.
 
But you don’t believe him divine in the same sense as other Christians.

Your “a lot” is eleven men and their wives. Our “a lot” is hundreds of people at the Pentecost. Obviously you don’t count that as the beginning of the Catholic Church though, so how about the early Church Fathers? There were more than eleven Church Fathers and their wives.
 
twopekinguys said:
But if you knew that Jesus is the son of God, then there would be no need to confirm JS.
Click to expand...
Knowing that Jesus is the Christ is not enough. We need to find the Church with authority to act in the name of God, that is where to get the ordinances like Baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, and true knowledge from God. That is only found in the LDS Church.

“Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”

Even evil spirits understood who Jesus was…

“And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?” Acts 19:15

“And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?” Matthew 8:29

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. " James 2:19
 
evanfaust said:
So, according to you apples = oranges?
Click to expand...
No, according to me a rose by any other name smells as sweet. 😉

If we’re being hyper-literal with names here, we should be calling Jesus “Yeshua”. But we don’t. Is it because they’re not the same person? No. We just call him something different. We know Jesus and Yeshua are the same person.
 
why_me said:
Mormonism has 11 eyewitnesses to the book of mormon. That is quite a lot.
Click to expand...
Oh Yes, that is quite.

Pertaining to the Testimony of the Three Witnesses (Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer),

From Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought Vol.7, No.4, page 83:
The evidence is extremely contradictory in this area, but there is a possibility that the three witnesses saw the plates in vision only, for Stephen Burnett in a letter written in 1838, a few weeks after the event, described Martin Harris’ testimony to this effect:
Click to expand...
When I came to hear Martin Harris state in public that he never saw the plates
with his natural eyes only in vision or imagination, neither Oliver nor David . . .
the last pedestal gave way, in my view our foundations.
Click to expand...
Burnett reported Harris saying that he had “hefted the plates repeatedly in a box with only a tablecloth or handkerchief over them, but he never saw them only as he saw a city through a mountain.”
Click to expand...
and page 84:
So far as the eight witnesses go, William Smith said his father never saw the plates except under a frock. And Stephen Burnett quotes Martin Harris that “the eight witnesses never saw them & hesitated to sign that instrument [their testimony published in the Book of Mormon] for that reason, but were persuaded to do it.”
Click to expand...
 
why_me said:
It may be the case now that catholics and certain protestants are friends in faith, but it was not always the case. It took years of reapproachment by catholic and the protestant churches. A case in point is again the religious wars that engulfed Europe for a couple of hundred years. Catholics and protestants were killing each other being encouraged on by church leaders. And the similiar belief in the Trinity did not bring peace but corrupted power did bring on war.

Let mormons be mormons and catholic/protestants be what they are too. And everyone will be much happier.
Click to expand...
Happy is not the goal. We are instructed to combat false prophets like Joseph Smith
 
why_me said:
Mormonism has 11 eyewitnesses to the book of mormon. That is quite a lot. And then, if we count the wives of these men, it becomes more. Very few men can keep such a lie or truth from their wives. It would come out.

What counts as a christian religion and mormons do not deny Jesus is the son of god. Just the opposite. Mormons claim that Jesus was god’s first son.
Click to expand...
That is not really true. They have 11 friends and family who saw it with their “Spiritual Eyes”
 
evanfaust said:
Knowing that Jesus is the Christ is not enough. We need to find the Church with authority to act in the name of God, that is where to get the ordinances like Baptism, gift of the Holy Ghost, and true knowledge from God. That is only found in the LDS Church.

“Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.”

Even evil spirits understood who Jesus was…

That would explain Joseph Smith. As has been shown, to believe Joseph is not disbelieve God
Click to expand...
 
evanfaust said:
So, according to you apples = oranges?
Click to expand...
No…you do, when you say Apostles= Presidents and "prophets=Presidents and you mmake up stuff like Patriarchs and Elders Quorrum and Mission Presidents and say it resembles the early Church
 
ParkerD said:
Catholic-rcia,
Eve didn’t choose the “empty promise of Satan.” She chose the way that had been presented to her to obtain knowledge of good and evil, or in another word, wisdom. She sought wisdom for herself and Adam, knowing there would be consequences but willing to face them. Wisdom is the path to a fullness of joy–not remaining in innocence and lack of experience.

I choose wisdom and experience over innocence and a cocoon of ease.

Satan chooses to rule by force and fear. I choose against force, fear, and those kinds of tactics even by those who think they are presenting teachings of the Bible. I choose faith, not fear, and light in its purity as amply given by Christ and presented throughout the Bible…
Click to expand...
Parker I will get to this after Mass today. A cocoon of ease? To be with God in the way God made us to be with Him? Look at what Jesus / God has done to bring you back to Him. You need to focus on the Passion of Christ to see what choosing this Wisdom you speak of did and still does in the world today. It went this way because we are here to learn that playing gods is the sin of the world. We learn to let God be God, to let God be the Good in us. This is what dying to self means.

Get back later. This is it Parker…truth about what we did, what we all do. How Jesus gets us out of it.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
But you don’t believe him divine in the same sense as other Christians.

Your “a lot” is eleven men and their wives. Our “a lot” is hundreds of people at the Pentecost. Obviously you don’t count that as the beginning of the Catholic Church though, so how about the early Church Fathers? There were more than eleven Church Fathers and their wives.
Click to expand...
Marc, just so you know, the “witnesses” (regardless of the number) that Mormons talk about did not see anything with their physical eyes, they saw whatever they saw with their “spiritual” eyes.

That’s not an “eyewitness” account as the term is generally understood. So essentially, there are no true “eyewitnesses”.
 
Marc_Anthony said:
You know, you actually made a good point there. I concede it. The Apsotles ARE still around. We just call them the Bishops.
Click to expand...
Wait, first you said that the Catholic Church has no apostles in its hierarchy. Now you’re saying that the apostles are now called bishops. Which is it? And where is there proof that the Catholic Church believes that its bishops are apostles and not just successors to the apostles but not apostles themselves?

“Though modern bishops succeed the apostles as the highest shepherds of the Church, and though they belong to unbroken lines of ordination going back to the hands of the apostles themselves, the office of bishop is not identical to the office of apostle. If it were, Christ would not have allowed the apostles to disappear from the scene but would have continued to appear to and commission new apostles for the Church. There are differences between the offices of bishop and apostle”
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0107bt.asp
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top