Mormon Doctrine (part 2)

[SirThomasMore]

How funny, Joseph Smith said the same thing in that sermon that I’ve been saying multiple times:

 

[Caprica]

ah, but you have NEGLECTED to be totally honest…about how thereis a council of gods and that when Joe goes to heaven he will supplant God who will rise higher and how you all become gods with your own worlds. That is NOT the same as only being gods insofar and you are one with Christ’s divinity.

Even without Christ’s divinity, you will have your own little world as a god. You are fooling no one with your half truths.

This is obviously untrue, and you cannot cite any evidence to support your claim. In Mormonism, it is only through Jesus Christ’s atonement that we can be exalted. There is no other way. But nice try.

I agree…showing LDS error is ALWAYS fun

So you cannot address how your quote was NOT talking about Joseph Smith, but Jesus Christ (as the full quote shows, heck even the evangelical critical website mormonwiki.org shows that it’s talking about Jesus Christ with bracketed comment!), showing you didn’t actually read the entire sermon, otherwise you’d know this.

 

[PaulDupre]

Caprica;6964278:

In LDS Doctine, you become a seperate God. Yes, God is your YOUR God, and some other God is still HIS God, but you are a seperate God. Don;t run from your doctrine.

Go in the other direction and you will see the LDS vs Catholic difference:

Mormons become Gods, that is, Caprica will be God (heavenly father) to his spirit children. (Gospel Principles, Chapter 47).

Catholics can become gods by partaking of God’s divine nature (though our true nature will always be created humans), but I will never be anyone’s God.

 

[Caprica]

Go in the other direction and you will see the LDS vs Catholic difference:

Mormons become Gods, that is, Caprica will be God (heavenly father) to his spirit children. (Gospel Principles, Chapter 47).

Catholics can become gods by partaking of God’s divine nature (though our true nature will always be created humans), but I will never be anyone’s God.

Latter-day Saints take seriously the belief that we participate in the very life of God. If you participate in God’s divine nature, what does that mean? Is it God’s nature to create?

 

[SirThomasMore]

This is obviously untrue, and you cannot cite any evidence to support your claim. In Mormonism, it is only

 

[SirThomasMore]

SirThomasMore;6964361:

Go in the other direction and you will see the LDS vs Catholic difference:

Mormons become Gods, that is, Caprica will be God (heavenly father) to his spirit children. (Gospel Principles, Chapter 47).

Catholics can become gods by partaking of God’s divine nature (though our true nature will always be created humans), but I will never be anyone’s God.

excellent and true

 

[Z_Ninja]

I don’t think we are talking about sharing in the divinity of God and Jesus. I think it was already agreed. Rather, the topic is the act of becoming gods of our own planet. I found an interesting take on the subject citing Acts 9:1-5. Saul experiences the light and voice asking him why he is persecuting me? and Saul asks “who are you?” and the voice,“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”’ this is before Saul’s conversion during the time he was persecuting Christians, Jesus says Saul is persecuting Him. As Jesus has said before, that which you do to the least is done to Him.
Here, Jesus refers to the whole body of the Church(Christians) as Him. I read as He is sharing his divinity with us.

Further in Isaiah 43:10
"“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. "

 

[RebeccaJ]

RebeccaJ and SMAD0142,
I’m guessing that SMAD142 would like me to answer this question, particularly given that his grandma is part of the subject of this thread.

The Intercessory prayer was of course not only not gender specific, but encompassed all of humanity in the way the Savior included “them also which shall believe on me through their word;” (the latter two words talking about the testimony and teachings of the eleven righteous apostles) “that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.” He wants the kind of love the Father has for His children to be “in them” (meaning in the people of the world). So that is the ultimate aim of sanctification–to gain the attribute of having the kind of love the Father has.

As I read the gospels I observe that Jesus is as much a nurturer as He is a “Master” among His closest associates–the apostles, Mary and Martha, and others. To say that an exalted woman (an exalted Queen in the sense of rulership on the joint throne described by John in Revelation) is going to be a perfected nurturer and a perfected counselor does not, it seems to me, demean them.

That will require a nearly infinite amount of patience, and certainly unconditional love as they allow the growth of spirits through those spirits’ own choices and those spirits’ own communication barriers and inadequacies through their inexperience. It will be far more compassionate of an exalted woman to allow growth among spirits than to force them “into line”. I think most mothers have joy in seeing their children progress and grow, while helping them learn to make good choices in their own lives. I don’t regard motherhood as some kind of second-rate position; rather, being the primary nurturer, with the kind of insight and compassion that come with that position and lead to counseling in love and understanding, seems to me to be very significant and worthwhile.

I think the roles of both fit together in a perfect way, and are completely interdependent and intertwined. The Savior showed sides of perfection that encompass both “Creative Ruler” and “Nurturing Counselor”.

Have a good day, all. May great peace be in your life always.

That’s all very interesting, but really, how many gods are “one in purpose” in mormonism?

And I think you should ask your wife what she thinks about her children not being allowed to talk to her, ala, mormons can’t pray to their mother-goddess.

 

[Caprica]

I have not been untruthful at all. I have nothing to cover up…you do. you have NEGLECTED to be totally honest…about how thereis a council of gods and that when Joe goes to heaven he will supplant God who will rise higher and how you all become gods with your own worlds. That is NOT the same as only being gods insofar and you are one with Christ’s divinity.

If you know this and are not honest about it, shame on you.

If you do not know this, then you need to do more research.

I see that you have not actually been reading my posts, since I have continuously brought up the Council of the Gods, and that God the Father is the Head of it (Joseph Smith said as much).

Also, I have already shown how your quote of Joseph Smith claiming that he will replace God was not talking about Joseph Smith, but about Jesus Christ. Here it is again:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6964520&postcount=40

But I understand your need to continue to ignore your misportrayal.

Even the anti-Mormon evangelical website Mormonwiki.org shows that you were wrong!

""Commenting on this the Prophet Joseph Smith has said: ‘What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same [that is Christ must do the same]; and when I get my kingdom. I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I [Christ] will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children.’
"

mormonwiki.org/Eternal_progression

Sorry, it’s dishonest of you to continue to say that Joseph Smith said something he didn’t say.

 

[twopekinguys]

Hey all,
I’m confused and want an explanation of Catholic doctrine. I read Catachism 460 as stating Catholic souls can become divine, or become God?

If I should start this as another thread, my apologies

At one point, you mentioned that you used to be Catholic. How long were you Catholic? Did you have any catechesis?

Knowing your background and knowledge in the Church can help us know where to start.

Also, I see you are addressing this on another board. “Since many Catholics don’t know their own faith, pointing to their Catachism will prove instructive.”, so it appears you already have an anwer in mind.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hmmm, I thought the Catechism was the official ‘interpretation’ of doctrine. That it spoke in plain language to remove false interpretation or ambiguity of intent.

This clearly says to me that post-mortal Catholics can be divine in nature, as God

That is your mormon interpretation of Catholic doctrine. There is nothing in there that says we become the same nature as God.

As has already been discussed, a tree is not a cat, a cat is not a human and a human is not a god.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I see that you have not actually been reading my posts, since I have continuously brought up the Council of the Gods, and that God the Father is the Head of it (Joseph Smith said as much).

Also, I have already shown how your quote of Joseph Smith claiming that he will replace God was not talking about Joseph Smith, but about Jesus Christ. Here it is again:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6964520&postcount=40

But I understand your need to continue to ignore your misportrayal.

Even the anti-Mormon evangelical website Mormonwiki.org shows that you were wrong!

""Commenting on this the Prophet Joseph Smith has said: 'What did Jesus do? Why; I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same [that is Christ must do the same]; and when I get my kingdom. I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I [Christ] will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children.’
"

mormonwiki.org/Eternal_progression

Sorry, it’s dishonest of you to continue to say that Joseph Smith said something he didn’t say.

I HAVE been reading your posts, hence my need to keep correcting you.

Have you decided what to name your planet?

 

[Caprica]

I HAVE been reading your posts, hence my need to keep correcting you.

So you still cannot address your misportrayal of Joseph Smith’s quote (which even an anti-Mormon wiki agrees with me, and which is also clear from simply reading the context). That’s okay, everyone else can see.

Have you decided what to name your planet?

Still debating which names I like.

 

[SirThomasMore]

At one point, you mentioned that you used to be Catholic. How long were you Catholic? Did you have any catechesis?

Knowing your background and knowledge in the Church can help us know where to start.

Also, I see you are addressing this on another board. “Since many Catholics don’t know their own faith, pointing to their Catachism will prove instructive.”, so it appears you already have an anwer in mind.

not only did Todd start that thread over there, he was horribly dishonest. He made it sound like none of us Catholics know our doctrine. he neglected to tell them all the catholics on this thread knew the doctrine and responded showing how Catholic and LDS doctrine differ.

Shame on him

 

[SirThomasMore]

So you still cannot address your misportrayal of Joseph Smith’s quote (which even an anti-Mormon wiki agrees with me, and which is also clear from simply reading the context). That’s okay, everyone else can see.

So many to choose from. I would like to offer this suggestion: Call it after you: Caprica

That way, when people find your planet, they can exclaim: “Eureka! Caprica!”

 

[LongJourney]

Here, Todd— perhaps you need to read it some more:

usccb.org/catechism/text/

 

[RebeccaJ]

not only did Todd start that thread over there, he was horribly dishonest. He made it sound like none of us Catholics know our doctrine. he neglected to tell them all the catholics on this thread knew the doctrine and responded showing how Catholic and LDS doctrine differ.

Shame on him

The stuff of mormonism…just make it up as you go along…if anything it is predictable.

 

[ParkerD]

I don’t think we are talking about sharing in the divinity of God and Jesus. I think it was already agreed. Rather, the topic is the act of becoming gods of our own planet. I found an interesting take on the subject citing Acts 9:1-5. Saul experiences the light and voice asking him why he is persecuting me? and Saul asks “who are you?” and the voice,“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”’ this is before Saul’s conversion during the time he was persecuting Christians, Jesus says Saul is persecuting Him. As Jesus has said before, that which you do to the least is done to Him.
Here, Jesus refers to the whole body of the Church (Christians) as Him. I read as He is sharing his divinity with us.

Further in Isaiah 43:10
"“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. "

Z Ninja,
Here is more of Isaiah 43, showing the context of the verse you cited:

1 But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
8 ¶ Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.
13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
14 Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

How clear does it need to be that that passage is talking about the Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah, the God of Israel and the King of Israel? Beside Him there truly is no other Savior–no other way to be saved than through Him and through repentance by coming unto Him directly. There is no other “God” through whom the atonement comes. He is the Only One. He is the Savior and King, the Promised Messiah, the Redeemer of Israel.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Z Ninja,
Here is more of Isaiah 43, showing the context of the verse you cited:

1 But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
8 ¶ Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, that I am God.
13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
14 Thus saith the Lord, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
15 I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

How clear does it need to be that that passage is talking about the Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, who is Jehovah, the God of Israel and the King of Israel? Beside Him there truly is no other Savior–no other way to be saved than through Him and through repentance by coming unto Him directly. There is no other “God” through whom the atonement comes. He is the Only One. He is the Savior and King, the Promised Messiah, the Redeemer of Israel.

Yes, exactly, Jesus IS GOD (not a other “God”). Maybe now you can understand the Holy Trinity.

 

[Pahoran]

Mormon Church- You can become Gods or as Gods

Satan- Genesis 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Do the math

Half a truth can be a very great lie.

Satan told a half truth, and thus he lied outright.

Genesis 3:
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

But evidently, he wasn’t the only one. It seems that some are diligently following his example:

22 ¶ And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

So tell us, STM: why did you not tell this half of the truth?

Hmmmm?

Regards,
Pahoran