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NeuroTypical
Guest
I’m glad to see it happening.
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TexanKnight
Guest
Mor4mons have, for years, appeared to be more mainstream. They hide their shaded past, deny their heretical past teachings, and try to sugar-coat their history. New prophets claim old prophets were wrong or taken out of context. Most new Mormons have no clue what the lds church really believes but keeps hidden.
So, this is not surprising.
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steido01
Guest
I think it’s unfortunate when Christians manage to find ways to appear syncretistic in today’s already relativistic, secular culture.
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mtolympus
Guest
A am glad to see some Christians would like to work together to combat evil and make the world a better place.
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”. (John 13:34-35)
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steido01
Guest
(John 13:34-35)A am glad to see some Christians would like to work together to combat evil and make the world a better place.
How, exactly, does officially participating in/attending a separate religion’s event constitute “work[ing] together to combat evil and make the world a better place?” This act wasn’t a joint venture to build houses for the homeless, feed the hungry, stamp out abortion, or something morally constructive.
What purpose did it serve, other than to implicitly grant legitimacy to erroneous belief?
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NeuroTypical
Guest
True, but such events come along with a growing interest in various Christian organizations working with Mormons.This act wasn’t a joint venture to build houses for the homeless, feed the hungry, stamp out abortion, or something morally constructive.
Like this venture between Catholics and Mormons: Mormons helping Catholic Church distribute relief goods in Bohol. Although the use of the word “ecumenism” is probably misused:
Msgr. Esteban Binghay, episcopal vicar of the Archdiocese of Cebu, welcomed the Mormon Church’s “good gesture.”
“The church is a symbol of unity and faith. Ecumenism means helping each other even if we belong to different churches because we believe in one God and we have one faith, one hope and one salvation,” he said.
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iepuras
Guest
This is just an attempt to further the LDS church’s efforts to appear more mainstream. Maybe these evangelical leaders will help some Mormons to start thinking about all the doctrinal and historical issues with the LDS church. I wonder when BYU is going to invite Fr. Robert Barron to speak.
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twopekinguys
Guest
BINGO!!! We have a WINNER!!!This is just an attempt to further the LDS church’s efforts to appear more mainstream. Maybe these evangelical leaders will help some Mormons to start thinking about all the doctrinal and historical issues with the LDS church. I wonder when BYU is going to invite Fr. Robert Barron to speak.
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ltwin
Guest
I don’t see this as evangelicals cooperating with the LDS Church to help it appear more mainstream. As Richard Land, former head of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention said,
And Albert Mohler, the President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary said,To some degree (members of the) LDS Church have to get used to the fact that the majority of evangelicals are not going to accept them within the framework of orthodox, Apostles’ Creed Christianity. And I think that evangelicals have got to accept the fact that the LDS Church is a tremendous ally and fellow combatant against the things that are the most threatening to us in America. People of all faiths had better stand together, because the secularists are after us. … When it comes to religious freedom, we all hang together or we all hang separately. We are common targets in this. The secularists are out to circumscribe our constitutional rights.
This is no different than how Catholics have been recently reaching out to the Mormons.I do not believe that we are going to heaven together, but I do believe we may go to jail together . . .
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TexanKnight
Guest
afraid to address the truth?A am glad to see some Christians would like to work together to combat evil and make the world a better place.
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”. (John 13:34-35)
Mormons have, for years, appeared to be more mainstream. They hide their shaded past, deny their heretical past teachings, and try to sugar-coat their history. New prophets claim old prophets were wrong or taken out of context. Most new Mormons have no clue what the lds church really believes but keeps hidden.
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iepuras
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I don’t either. I don’t think evangelical or Catholic leaders are trying to help the LDS church appear more mainstream. It is the LDS church that is reaching out to mainstream Christianity to appear like they are also mainstream Christians (which they are not). They have been at this for a long time. I think mainstream Christian leaders are being charitable and trying to work with the LDS church on things that they are both concerned about (i.e., family, marriage, religious freedom, etc).I don’t see this as evangelicals cooperating with the LDS Church to help it appear more mainstream.
I think mainstream Christian leaders should take every opportunity they can to speak to Mormons as they may be able to help them start thinking about doctrinal and historical problems with the LDS church that LDS leaders whitewash.
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NeuroTypical
Guest
Speaking to these two points, the Joseph Smith Papers project continues to publish online the 2500 or so source documents, at the rate of two volumes per year. It is “an effort to gather together all extant Joseph Smith documents and to publish complete and accurate transcripts of those documents with both textual and contextual annotation.” The project has received an endorsement in 2004 from the National Historical Publications and Records Commission for it’s professional and scholarly work.They hide their shaded past,
…
Most new Mormons have no clue what the lds church really believes but keeps hidden.
If this doesn’t address at least part of the issue, I guess you’d have to believe that Joseph somehow tirelessly worked to keep all mention of his seedier deeds, and what he really believed but keeps hidden, out of every diary, journal, letter, meeting minutes, administrative record, all of the early histories, and every court, land, and business paper associated with his name.
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taylorf
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Wouldn’t surprise me. He did order the illegal destruction of a printing press to prevent the truth from coming out.I guess you’d have to believe that Joseph somehow tirelessly worked to keep all mention of his seedier deeds, and what he really believed but keeps hidden, out of every diary, journal, letter, meeting minutes, administrative record, all of the early histories, and every court, land, and business paper associated with his name.
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RebeccaJ
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An astounding and naive statement. You need to do some research outside of LDS.org.If this doesn’t address at least part of the issue, I guess you’d have to believe that Joseph somehow tirelessly worked to keep all mention of his seedier deeds, and what he really believed but keeps hidden, out of every diary, journal, letter, meeting minutes, administrative record, all of the early histories, and every court, land, and business paper associated with his name.
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TexanKnight
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I never said js hid anything. He had no clue that science and archaeology and every other science would prove him so wrong. I said THE LDS CHURCH works to hide the past. And that is true.Speaking to these two points, the Joseph Smith Papers project continues to publish online the 2500 or so source documents, at the rate of two volumes per year. It is “an effort to gather together all extant Joseph Smith documents and to publish complete and accurate transcripts of those documents with both textual and contextual annotation.” The project has received an endorsement in 2004 from the National Historical Publications and Records Commission for it’s professional and scholarly work.
If this doesn’t address at least part of the issue, I guess you’d have to believe that Joseph somehow tirelessly worked to keep all mention of his seedier deeds, and what he really believed but keeps hidden, out of every diary, journal, letter, meeting minutes, administrative record, all of the early histories, and every court, land, and business paper associated with his name.
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iepuras
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Well, Joseph Smith’s first alleged “plural wife” Fanny Alger was whisked away and married off to another man not long after Joseph and Fanny were discovered by Emma. Does that count as working to hide his “seedier deeds”? I will also add that Oliver Cowdery referred to Joseph and Fanny’s relationship as a “dirty, nasty, filthy affair”. Their relationship also occurred before Elijah supposedly appeared in the Kirtland temple to restore the sealing power. How can someone have a plural wife before the sealing power was restored? He can’t. It’s called adultery. I think the prophet Nathan from the Old Testament would have a few things to say to Joseph about all of his wives, including the ones he stole from other men.If this doesn’t address at least part of the issue, I guess you’d have to believe that Joseph somehow tirelessly worked to keep all mention of his seedier deeds, and what he really believed but keeps hidden, out of every diary, journal, letter, meeting minutes, administrative record, all of the early histories, and every court, land, and business paper associated with his name.
Also, are the complete stories of Helen Mar Kimball and Zina Huntington Jacobs told and explained by the LDS church? I had never heard of them before I started studying about the early history of the LDS church from non-LDS sources. In fact, I had never heard of any of Joseph Smith’s plural wives before I started researching.
Joseph Smith and the LDS church have hidden Joseph’s “seedier deeds”.
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NeuroTypical
Guest
The Joseph Smith papers project is outside of LDS.org. Again, it’s a scholarly endeavor credited by the US government’s National Historical Publications and Records Commission. Have you gone there and looked around? Their FAQ page has useful information, like this:You need to do some research outside of LDS.org.
How does the project ensure that scholarly standards are maintained?
A qualified, well-trained staff adheres to high standards in transcription, verification, and documentary editing. The project conducts various levels of internal and external review on each volume. An external national advisory board reviews each volume and acts as consultants for the project. The four-member board, recognized scholars in American religious history and documentary editing, is currently made up of one Latter-day Saint scholar and three scholars who are not Latter-day Saints.
Can you explain how one “works to hide the past” when they preserve 2500 source documents from the past, and publish them online in a credentialed scholarly endeavor that the general public can view for free?I said THE LDS CHURCH works to hide the past. And that is true.
No really - go click there. Look around at our earliest church history, directly from the original source documents, where it’s not possible to spin or downplay. Go read Joseph’s diaries, the early biographies about him, court documents, early church meeting minutes.
Texan makes this claim:
The Joseph Smith Papers project would seem to indicate the exact opposite is happening. There is quite a bit of work going on, to preserve and publish our past for the world to see.LDS CHURCH works to hide the past.
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NeuroTypical
Guest
Hi iepuras, you may be interested to note that the existing records of the incident are contained in this website I keep mentioning. Take a look:I will also add that Oliver Cowdery referred to Joseph and Fanny’s relationship as a “dirty, nasty, filthy affair”.
Journal, March-September 1838, page 30.[bolding mine]
Footnote #54 pretty much documents your claim clearly.I do hereby prefer the following Charges against Oliver Cowdery, which consists of nine in number. 1st For persecuting the bretheren, by urging on vex atious lawsuits against the Bretheren and thus dirstressing the inocent.53 2nd For seeking to destroy the Character of Pres. Joseph Smith Jr by falsly in sinuating that he was guilty of adultery &c.
By publishing the accusations for the world to see?Joseph Smith and the LDS church have hidden Joseph’s “seedier deeds”.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Hi, I was responding to what you said:
“If this doesn’t address at least part of the issue, I guess you’d have to believe that Joseph somehow tirelessly worked to keep all mention of his seedier deeds, and what he really believed but keeps hidden, out of every diary, journal, letter, meeting minutes, administrative record, all of the early histories, and every court, land, and business paper associated with his name.”
Which seems to me you were commenting about resources outside of the JSP.
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