Mormon FAQ!

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mesenja said:
I have no interest in jumping from topic to topic because you have no answer for the questions I previously asked you.
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De praescriptione haereticorum
(On the prescription of heretics)
The heretic, therefore, can be easily discovered: since he seeks endlessly without ever finding, he must always try to doubt the ‘regula fidei’ which genuine Christians believe without question.
tertullian.org/works/de_praescriptione_haereticorum.htm

28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
 
I think it more accurate to say that LDS missionaries are not very well catechized. they go through one of the best sales training programs in the USA. their job is to get appointments and then convert those into baptisms. I think they are purposely not given “meat” because it is not intended that they preach/teach that. In that regard I don’t think they lie so much as they ignorantly perpetuate a number of lies. specific examples would be that there was a complete global apostasy that left the entire world with no valid Christian church for 1800 years, that Joseph Smith was told by God that, in regards to existing churches, ALL THEIR CREEDS WERE ABOMINATION! The lessons given investigators gloss over eternal progression, ignore polygamy and in my opinion give an inaccurate account of LDS history. (first vision account, method of translating BoM, belief in the Bible amongst others)

I see no difference in Joseph Smith than David Koresh. This cult only survived because Brigham Young took them off into a distant land where he basically had a captive nation that could impose their religion on an entire generation. They are primarily an American phenomenon that has pretty much peaked and is now dying out as people have access to too many facts to be fooled by this anymore.

Even LDS historians are having issues presenting facts that don’t contradict the “faith promoting” account. Look at Boyd K. Packers actions towards them and his comments on history.

Gordon B. Hinkley certainly doesn’t help the LDs case either. He has, in describing “prophecy”, pretty much eliminated the perceived value of a modern prophet. (which is, I believe, eliminated by the first chapter of Hebrews) and he certainly seemed less than truthful when speaking on eternal progression.

I would look at the Temple ceremony as evidence of the LDS church being false as well. Missionaries don’t speak the truth about that.

as to applying standards… the LDs church begins it’s missionary process with the Joseph Smith story which as documented in “scripture” (JS-H) not only tells us that all churches are wrong but does so in a pretty frank and ugly manner. Calling the creeds an abomination is certainly objectionable. I would like to know which specific parts of the Nicene creed are so evil as to constitute “abomination”. as the LDs start out with that “shot” I think the placement of the burden of proof is obvious.

Of course you could always start a blog and say everything is answered there.:eek:
 
mesenja said:
I don’t blame you for not wanting to make a defense for the indefensible. If you want to make false accusations and use double standards then yes you do not need to provide any burden of proof. Let us put aside for a moment your double standards that you use against us. I gave the challenge to provide evidence that Latter-day Saint missionaries are taught to lie. So far I have seen no evidence to support this allegation. Please do me a favor and do not bother to reply to this post if no evidence is forth coming.
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You are absolutely correct. There is no defense for mormons not telling the thruth about what they believe. You will find one thing in common on most all the threads on these forums. That commonality is objection to the denial, avoidance and outright dishonesty of mormon apologists regarding the real beliefs and the origin of the beliefs of the mormon organization. You will simply not acknowlege that any dishonesty takes place. Either you blindly accept that fact or there is an organized effort by the mormon organization to deceive people until they are hooked. Prove that this is not the case. This is my last word to you on this subject. I have investigated mormonism for too long to be fooled by someone spouting the party line. I solidly agree with the above poster. I don’t blame the kids(“elders”) They are just doing what they are told. The real evil lies in Salt Lake City, with the old men who pull the strings. I will pray for you and for all those trapped in error.
 
hosemonkey said:
You are absolutely correct. There is no defense for Mormons not telling the truth about what they believe. You will find one thing in common on most all the threads on these forums. That commonality is objection to the denial,avoidance and outright dishonesty of Mormon apologists regarding the real beliefs and the origin of the beliefs of the Mormon organization. You will simply not acknowledge that any dishonesty takes place. Either you blindly accept that fact or there is an organized effort by the Mormon organization to deceive people until they are hooked. Prove that this is not the case. This is my last word to you on this subject. I have investigated Mormonism for too long to be fooled by someone spouting the party line. I solidly agree with the above poster. I don’t blame the kids (“elders”) They are just doing what they are told. The real evil lies in Salt Lake City,with the old men who pull the strings. I will pray for you and for all those trapped in error.
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I asked Melanie_Anne these three questions.
  1. How are the missionaries trained to be deceitful?
  2. What are some examples of how missionaries are being deceitful?
  3. Are the returned missionaries that you have quotes from still in good standing in the Church?
So far I have not received an answer.Either you have proof of this or you don’t. Thanks also for demonstrating one of the tactics used by anti-Mormons.
  1. Study the techniques of the Pharisees very closely. “And they watched [Jesus]…that they might accuse him.” (Mark 3:2) Look for any and every opportunity to accuse the Latter-day Saints of some supposed wrongdoing. Don’t be afraid of making unsubstantiated charges. Examine the statements of Church leaders. It is fairly easy to twist an isolated sentence from LDS secondary sources into supporting your accusation. (Anti-Mormon Tactics by W. John Walsh)
 
How did you get this thread up on your own belief??? separate from the others
 
mesenja said:
I gave the challenge to provide evidence that Latter-day Saint missionaries are taught to lie. So far I have seen no evidence to support this allegation.
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I can testify that when I was an LDS missionary, I and my fellow elders and sisters were taught to lie. If you ever served a mission, I can almost guarantee that you were taught to lie too. You were certainly taught:

“If you don’t have a testimony, bear testimony anyway. If you bear testimony often enough, you will eventually gain a testimony.” Translation: “If you tell a lie often enough, you will eventually come to believe it.”

This teaching is ubiquitous in Mormonism, and has been taught by many GAs, most notoriously by Boyd K. Packer. The late Ezra Taft Benson counseled me and my fellow mishies to bear testimonies we didn’t have. I (as a convert) was bothered by this, but the lifers thought it was perfectly fine.

Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
I can testify that when I was an LDS missionary, I and my fellow elders and sisters were taught to lie. If you ever served a mission, I can almost guarantee that you were taught to lie too. You were certainly taught:

“If you don’t have a testimony, bear testimony anyway. If you bear testimony often enough, you will eventually gain a testimony.” Translation: “If you tell a lie often enough, you will eventually come to believe it.”

This teaching is ubiquitous in Mormonism, and has been taught by many GAs, most notoriously by Boyd K. Packer. The late Ezra Taft Benson counseled me and my fellow mishies to bear testimonies we didn’t have. I (as a convert) was bothered by this, but the lifers thought it was perfectly fine.

Paul
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Thank you. I rest my case.
 
PaulDupre said:
“If you don’t have a testimony, bear testimony anyway. If you bear testimony often enough, you will eventually gain a testimony.” Translation: “If you tell a lie often enough, you will eventually come to believe it.”

l
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Hi Paul,
I left the LDS church before I served a mission, but I heard this, too. In young men’s, in priesthood class, and from my father. Though by then, I had already made up my mind as to the lack of truth in the LDS church, and I wasn’t listening anymore.

By the way, I always enjoy your posts (Majick’s too), they’re usually intelligent and informative.
Michael
 
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mesenja:
I asked Melanie_Anne these three questions.
  1. How are the missionaries trained to be deceitful?
They are trained to teach people that mormonism is “true”. This is a lie.
  1. What are some examples of how missionaries are being deceitful?
Claiming that Joseph Smith was a prophet. The foundational lie. Everything based on that claim are just more lies.
  1. Are the returned missionaries that you have quotes from still in good standing in the Church?
If by “the Church” you mean mormonism, of course they are in good standing. The more people they convince that the lies of mormonism are true, the more prestige they have in mormonism.

So far I have not received an answer.Either you have proof of this or you don’t. Thanks also for demonstrating one of the tactics used by anti-Mormons.

And you are demonstrating the tactics used by mormons to invalidate anything that anyone has to say that is counter to your beliefs. Nothing but proof of the lies of mormonism have been pointed out to you.
  1. Study the techniques of the Pharisees very closely. “And they watched [Jesus]…that they might accuse him.” (Mark 3:2) Look for any and every opportunity to accuse the Latter-day Saints of some supposed wrongdoing. Don’t be afraid of making unsubstantiated charges. Examine the statements of Church leaders. It is fairly easy to twist an isolated sentence from LDS secondary sources into supporting your accusation. (Anti-Mormon Tactics by W. John Walsh)
Christ delivered truth, The Truth. Mormon church leaders only have a lie to perpetuate. Complaining that people know the lies for what they are and object to the lies and the people who tell them, does not cause the lies turn into truths.
 
zerinus said:
Mormons certainly believe that the land of America is a favoured land; but not that the Americans are a “favoured group”. The Americans in the sight of God are no different from any other people. If they are righteous, they will be favoured of God; if not, they will not be. That is the deciding factor for everyone, not whether they are “Americans” or something else.

zerinus
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zerinus, can you please tell me why America is the favoured land by God?

Thanks
 
kellie said:
zerinus, can you please tell me why America is the favoured land by God?

Thanks
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Because In LDS scripture the Lord has said so:

2 Nephi 10:

19 Wherefore, I will consecrate this land unto thy seed, and them who shall be numbered among thy seed, forever, for the land of their inheritance; for it is a choice land, saith God unto me, above all other lands, wherefore I will have all men that dwell thereon that they shall worship me, saith God.

Ether 2:

7 And the Lord would not suffer that they should stop beyond the sea in the wilderness, but he would that they should come forth even unto the land of promise, which was choice above all other lands, which the Lord God had preserved for a righteous people.

8 And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.

9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.

10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.

11 And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done.

12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

Ether 13:

1 And now I, Moroni, proceed to finish my record concerning the destruction of the people of whom I have been writing.

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof.

zerinus
 
8 I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan in Salt Lake City Utah, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.
 
zerinus said:
Weird!

Shortly after I had created my Blog “Mormon FAQ,” some idiot guy has gone and created a blog to mimic the exact look and appearance of my Blog, and called it “Mormon FAQ’s”. He has probably done it thinking to derail my Blog. The date of the latest blog at the top is faked. He must be one of the nutcases on this board. Hazard a guess? The monkey guy comes to mind! He missed it though. Everybody know zerinus. Who is JDB?

zerinus
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Schizophrenia is a treatable condition. You just have to see the doctor to get the medication.

MW
 
zerinus said:
Because In LDS scripture the Lord has said so:

2 Nephi 10:

19 Wherefore, I will consecrate this land unto thy seed, and them who shall be numbered among thy seed, forever, for the land of their inheritance; for it is a choice land, saith God unto me, above all other lands, wherefore I will have all men that dwell thereon that they shall worship me, saith God.

Ether 2:

7 And the Lord would not suffer that they should stop beyond the sea in the wilderness, but he would that they should come forth even unto the land of promise, which was choice above all other lands, which the Lord God had preserved for a righteous people.

8 And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should serve him, the true and only God, or they should be swept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.

9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be swept off when the fulness of his wrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ripened in iniquity.

10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off.

11 And this cometh unto you, O ye Gentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the wrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done.

12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

Ether 13:

1 And now I, Moroni, proceed to finish my record concerning the destruction of the people of whom I have been writing.

2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof.

zerinus
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Key words “LDS Scripture.”

Many things, previously unknown, are possible in “LDS Scripture.”:cool:
 
dosdog said:
8 I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan in Salt Lake City Utah, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.
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dosdog are you on drugs???
 
mesenja said:
Do you know what the definition of lying is?
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Mark William Hofmann (born 7 December 1954), a disaffected member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was a prolific counterfeiter who murdered two people in Salt Lake City, Utah.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hofmann

In 1857, Brigham Young declared that apostates would “become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil” (Journal of Discourse 5:332).
mrm.org/topics/book-mormon/white-and-delightsome-or-pure-and-delightsome-look-2-nephi-30-6

Until 1981 2 Nephi 30:6 in the Book of Mormon taught that dark-skinned Lamanites (Indians) would eventually experience a change in the color of their skin should they embrace the Book of Mormon. This passage of Mormon scripture read:

“…their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”

Mormon Apostle James Talmage noted that, “The Nephites suffered extinction about 400 A.D., but the Lamanites lived on in their degraded course, and are today extant upon the land as the American Indians” (Jesus the Christ, 23rd ed., p.49).
mrm.org/topics/book-mormon/dna-and-book-mormon-record
 
zerinus joined this Forum one year ago today. Have you poor people been putting up with all this for that long? How have you not gone crazy?
 
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