Mormon general authority teaches God the Father is resurrected being

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It may have worked on some, however it never worked on me. I knew far to much of the LDS, going to college in Utah and living in predominantly LDS communities, to fall for any of your tricks.
 
gazelam said:
The doctrine that God’s creation is out of nothing is opposed to what the Bible teaches.

As Stanley L. Jaki, a Catholic priest of the Benedictine Order, stated:

The caution which is in order about taking the [Hebrew] verb bara in the sense of creation out of nothing is no less needed in reference to the [English] word creation. Nothing is more natural, and unadvised, at the same time, than to use the word as if it has always denoted creation out of nothing. In its basic etymological origin the word creation meant the purely natural process of growing or of making something to grow. This should be obvious by a mere recall of the [Latin] verb crescere. The crescent moon [derived from crescere] is not creating but merely growing. The expression ex nihilo or de nihilo had to be fastened, from around 200 A.D. on, by Christian theologians on the verb creare to convey unmistakably a process, strict creation, which only God can perform. Only through the long-standing use of those very Latin expressions, creare ex nihilo and creatio ex nihilo, could the English words to create and creation take on the meaning which excludes pre-existing matter. Stanley L. Jaki, Genesis 1 Through the Ages (Royal Oak, Mich.: Real View Books, 1998), 5-6.
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Gazelam,

Your attempts over the years of quoting Catholic scholars to prove LDS doctrine are quite pathetic. My guess is that you go to various Mormon apologetic websites to dig up cherry-picked Catholic quotes so you can put them on Catholic websites like this one. We see right through this. Let me clue you in on something, and you need to pay attention to this because it’s important— Our church, the Catholic Church, has thousands of scholars who pose all kinds of theories and interpretations, many of which are not necessarily in line with Catholic dogma or teaching. And unlike in the LDS church, when one of these scholars publishes their own interpretations, the Catholic Church doesn’t try to silence them by excommunicating them, as happens to LDS scholars who don’t tow the line. The Church is not afraid of Catholics posing varying interpretations of things. That doesn’t mean what these scholars have to say is correct. It simply means that our Church allows them academic freedom. LDS leadership, on the other hand, IS afraid of such things as evidenced by their consistent practice of excommunicating members for apostacy, which happens every day.

So please stop quoting these scholars as if their interpretations are authoritative. They’re not. It’s a lame tactic you have been using ever since you have been here on CAF. It’s disingenuous and lazy. The authority for teaching lies in the Holy Father and the bishops in unity with him, not with whatever random Catholic scholar you find quoted on Fair Mormon.
 
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AngelaMarie said:
“The Father and the Son are resurrected beings. The Holy Ghost is a person of spirit.”
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This aligns to Mormon teachings, that their Father was previously the Savior of another world…so their Father is also a son.

A not very well organized, or even well thought out theology, of regressive gods. And no unmoved mover. It is why Mormons must defend their idea of eternal intelligences. It’s the closest thing they’ve got to a concept of something being uncreated, that is behind creation.

So many dead end conclusions to be made out of this mess, not the least is, Mormon gods are not omnipotent.

Meanwhile, quoting historical Christian writings as though Mormon religious novelties can be historically supported.

No where, in Christian history, has anyone believed or taught that the Father is a resurrected person.
 
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gazelam said:
not from existent things
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So your argument is this means something different:

“not make them out of things that existed”

Or, that both translations actually mean “from something that existed”?

Whatever works for you I guess.
 
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gazelam said:
It’s always great when pure light is shared on CAF. Please keep sharing!!
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Sharing brings out discussions, of missing books like the Maccabees, in your Bible, that show Mormon errors confound light and truth. Which in turn can cause Mormons to call the fog in which you wander, light.
 
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Chris-Wa1 said:
Gazelam,

Your attempts over the years of quoting Catholic scholars to prove LDS doctrine are quite pathetic.
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There is nothing pathetic about this in the least. The last time I checked this is a debate forum and I quote various scholars that support my side of the debate.
Chris-Wa1 said:
My guess is that you go to various Mormon apologetic websites to dig up cherry-picked Catholic quotes so you can put them on Catholic websites like this one. We see right through this. Let me clue you in on something, and you need to pay attention to this because it’s important— Our church, the Catholic Church, has thousands of scholars who pose all kinds of theories and interpretations, many of which are not necessarily in line with Catholic dogma or teaching. And unlike in the LDS church, when one of these scholars publishes their own interpretations, the Catholic Church doesn’t try to silence them by excommunicating them, as happens to LDS scholars who don’t tow the line. The Church is not afraid of Catholics posing varying interpretations of things. That doesn’t mean what these scholars have to say is correct. It simply means that our Church allows them academic freedom. LDS leadership, on the other hand, IS afraid of such things as evidenced by their consistent practice of excommunicating members for apostacy, which happens every day.
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This is an odd request (to my simple mind). You complain that Latter-day Saint scholars are threatened with ex-communication to ensure that they tow the line, and state that…
The Church is not afraid of Catholics posing varying interpretations of things. That doesn’t mean what these scholars have to say is correct. It simply means that our Church allows them academic freedom.
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Chris-Wa1 said:
So please stop quoting these scholars…
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You’re attempting to do to me the exact same thing you claim is being done to Latter-day Saint scholars. You want me to stop debating.
Chris-Wa1 said:
…as if their interpretations are authoritative.
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Chris-Wa1 said:
The authority for teaching lies in the Holy Father and the bishops in unity with him, not with whatever random Catholic scholar you find quoted on Fair Mormon.
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I don’t claim that the scholars I quote are part of the Catholic Universal Magisterium. I hope this helps you understand better where I’m coming from.
 
I have been studying Mormonism for quite a while, and it’s honestly not the first time I’ve heard it. I’ve also noticed, that I don’t think Mormons talk about it all that much, because it would be repugnant to those with traditional Christian beliefs. The Mormons believe that God the Father is created, some of their early leaders believed that Jesus of Nazareth was a polygamist, and change the definition of the word virgin to include relations with someone who is a god, not the god, one of Millions. I’m not surprised by it, Mormons have a lot of beliefs that are at odds with traditional Christianity, this shouldn’t surprise us.
 
gazelam said:
The last time I checked this is a debate forum and I quote various scholars that support my side of the debate.
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Except, the scholars you quote do not support your side of the debate. Mormon apologists take quotes out of context, claim they support Mormonism, and you cut and paste them here.
 
Stephen168 said:
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gazelam:
The last time I checked this is a debate forum and I quote various scholars that support my side of the debate.
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Except, the scholars you quote do not support your side of the debate. Mormon apologists take quotes out of context, claim they support Mormonism, and you cut and paste them here.
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That’s debatable. 😁
 
gazelam said:
You’re attempting to do to me the exact same thing you claim is being done to Latter-day Saint scholars. You want me to stop debating.
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That is completely untrue. You can debate all you want. I’m just calling you out on your disingenuous and lazy habit of using Catholic quotes from LDS apologetics websites as support for arguments that are not Catholic.

And in order for me to do the same thing to you that the LDS church does to dissenters, I would have to call you into a kangaroo court and excommunicate you. That is, of course, ludicrous, as is your statement comparing my actions with what the LDS leadership does to its own members.
 
Which is unfortunate, because I would really like to hear Mormons side without bias on the quotes.
 
Do Mormons believe that God is unchanging? the same yesterday today and forever? If so how does that work with eternal progression? Dont Mormons believe that even God has progressed, having once been a man himself, and been resurrected at some point in his eternal progression
 
No, they don’t, and they believe that God created the universe out of pre-existing material.
 
AngelaMarie said:
Do Mormons believe that God is unchanging?
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Do Catholics believe that God is unchanging? If Jesus is God, and Jesus was born, died, and was resurrected, then God is not unchanging in the literal sense. Birth, death, and resurrection are all changes. We Latter-day Saints know very little about how God the Father became supreme, but The Father plainly has a body as taught in the New Testament, and His body, like all bodies, was fashioned from something already in existence.
AngelaMarie said:
the same yesterday today and forever?
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This phrase [yesterday] does not connote something without beginning, but rather something that existed earlier than now. Christ is a resurrected Being now, He was a resurrected Being 1,900 years ago, but He wasn’t a resurrected Being 3,000 years ago. One can legitimately say that Christ is a resurrected Being yesterday, today, and forever knowing that there was a point when He became resurrected.
AngelaMarie said:
If so how does that work with eternal progression? Don’t Mormons believe that even God has progressed, having once been a man himself, and been resurrected at some point in his eternal progression
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You started this post stating that Latter-day Saints believe that The Father is a resurrected Being so you’re asking a question to which you already know the answer.

Jesus referred to His Father as a man in John 8:17, 18

Even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men can be verified. I testify on my behalf and so does the Father who sent me.

For a better understanding of Eternal Progression, see this.

Christopher Stead stated:

The Old Testament writers sometimes speak of God as unchanging. . . . In Christian writers influenced by Greek philosophy this doctrine is developed in an absolute metaphysical sense. Hebrew writers are more concrete, and their thinking includes two main points: (1) God has the dignity appropriate to old age, but without its disabilities . . . ; and (2) God is faithful to his covenant promises, even though men break theirs. (Christopher Stead, Philosophy in Christian Antiquity (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1994), 102) (cf. Isaiah 40:28; Exodus 34:9-10)
 
gazelam said:
Do Catholics believe that God is unchanging? If Jesus is God, and Jesus was born, died, and was resurrected, then God is not unchanging in the literal sense. Birth, death, and resurrection are all changes. We Latter-day Saints know very little about how God the Father became supreme, but The Father plainly has a body as taught in the New Testament, and His body, like all bodies, was fashioned from something already in existence.
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The Incarnation is when God, lowered himself for a while. He didn’t cease to be God in doing so. Two attributes of God are unchangeable and immutable. These attributes did not cease to exist, were not set aside, were not changed, at the Incarnation. God, became man, taking on human nature, not ceasing to be divine in doing so. Jesus is fully human and fully divine. His divine nature did not change at His Incarnation.

Mormonism is similar to the ancient heresies, which could muster support from the Bible, but fails when scripture is read as a whole.

 
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