Mormon missionaries vandalize and desecrate Catholic Shrine

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zerinus said:
Matthew 7:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Luke 6:

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

John 7:

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Moroni 7:

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

Moroni 8:

19 For behold, the same that judgeth rashly shall be judged rashly again; for according to his works shall his wages be; therefore, he that smiteth shall be smitten again, of the Lord.

20 Behold what the scripture says—man shall not smite, neither shall he judge; for judgment is mine, saith the Lord, and vengeance is mine also, and I will repay.

zerinus
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Well, the Moroni ones are not believed in by any other religion, so it may work for the Mormons reading here, but no one else.
 
Annie_B said:
<<Even then it still doesn’t portray the sense of sacrilege that a catholic would feel because of the LDS not believing in/understanding of the real presence.>>

I think it would be fair to say that just as the Mormon may not understand the sense of sacrilege that a Catholic feels, a Catholic may not understand how a Mormon would feel. Fair enough?

Annie
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I agree in theory but what specifically are you referring to? what I am asking you is to tell me is what in particular a catholic would not understand about a mormon feeling?
 
Annie_B said:
Forgive me but I got a small chuckle from this part of the post; that is exactly what I heard Catholics tell their kids; that Mormons have horns and they should not talk to them…:o I am sorry that you had this experience with Mormons; we are not all like that:)

Annie
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Annie I am sure that all mormons are not like that but I have to tell you of my experience. Three to four years ago I began to feel very strong urges to explore Catholicism and while I was deciding to convert my spouse told one of our friends (that happens to be Mormon) about my feelings. She promptly told my spouse that it was the devil trying to get me to convert and that it was necessary to try and get me to stop going towards Catholicism. She also told my spouse that; “Mormons hate Catholics”.

To be fair, I heard it was the “devil” trying to get me to the Catholic Church from some protestants too. But I was never told by anyone else that they would hate me for just being Catholic.
 
Well, I married a Catholic man while I was still Mormon. You would have thought I had married Satan himself.

Too bad my family will never know my incredibly wonderful husband who is so much more a man of God than my Mormon brother-in-laws are.

Too bad my family will never know my beautiful Catholic babies who they’ve never met. (they refuse to)

Too bad for them. I chose Jesus. Yeah, Mormons just LOVE Catholic people. :rolleyes:

in Christ
Steph
 
Meinrad said:
Well, the Moroni ones are not believed in by any other religion, so it may work for the Mormons reading here, but no one else.
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They are true though. The truth does not depend on who believes in it and who doesn’t. I quote them because they are true. I don’t care if anybody does not believe in it.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
They are true though. The truth does not depend on who believes in it and who doesn’t. I quote them because they are true. I don’t care if anybody does not believe in it.

zerinus
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You are posting on Catholic.com… also, what I said earlier about how Mormons treated me when I moved here was the truth, and you rejected it out of hand saying you don’t believe a word of it. I have read the book of Mormon, and I don’t believe it, thats why I’m Catholic.
 
majick275 said:
I agree in theory but what specifically are you referring to? what I am asking you is to tell me is what in particular a catholic would not understand about a mormon feeling?
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This is what I was referring to:

<<Even then it still doesn’t portray the sense of sacrilege that a catholic would feel because of the LDS not believing in/understanding of the real presence.>>

The poster of this message sounded as if the Mormons could not understand the depth of their despair/offense due to the acts of sacrilege because of not beleiving in/understanding the “real presence” and this is probably true. There was then referenced a potential offense to the LDS church. I was merely saying, that by their very statement(s) it was obvious that there seems to be a misunderstanding of what is offensive and to what degree it is offensive to members of both churches. I think that it is fair to say that:)

Annie
 
Personally I dont really care what faith these “kids” had (they could be goths or Odin worshippers for all it matters), the fact that they were mormons really means that they knew better than to do what they did.

From what I have read on these forums from zerinus and co. they have been taught that this sort of behaviour is wrong as well as well as what such acts entail.

All that means is that they were not “innocent kids” but had intent and knew what they were doing. Thats really the only part of the mormon “issue”.

As far as the photos go, apparently there are five. We have only heard about three of them and have been shown two of them.

The statue photo is not an innocent photo because of the other two that we have heard about.

You just dont take photos of a spree like that to all of a sudden stop and try to put the head back on a statue and take a photo of that.

“Yeah that was fun, we got some good photos”

“That pseudo sacrifice on the alter looks really cool!!!”

“Hold up lads, it appears that the head of this statue has fallen off. What should we do?”

“Well this isnt right at all. I am going to try and put the head back on, its the decent thing to do”

“Good idea. Let me take a photo of this decent act”.

(for some reason they had english accents while I was writing this).

It just doesnt add up.

Unless of course they were shooting photos for a gallery exhibition (I guess hte title could be “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly”).
 
tundramom said:
Well, I married a Catholic man while I was still Mormon. You would have thought I had married Satan himself.

Too bad my family will never know my incredibly wonderful husband who is so much more a man of God than my Mormon brother-in-laws are.

Too bad my family will never know my beautiful Catholic babies who they’ve never met. (they refuse to)

Too bad for them. I chose Jesus. Yeah, Mormons just LOVE Catholic people. :rolleyes:

in Christ
Steph
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Steph - I am sorry for your experiences:( I never would have treated you like that. Please do not lump all Mormons into one nasty category. That makes no more sense than me lumping Catholics into one nasty category due to the less than charitable (being kind on that one:p ) experiences I have had with them, ok? We are taught to love everyone; those who do not are falling severely short of the mark…

Annie
 
Sad incident. Hopefully we Catholics can show charity and forgiveness and use this as an opportunity for evangelization. :o
 
Annie_B said:
Steph - I am sorry for your experiences:( I never would have treated you like that. Please do not lump all Mormons into one nasty category. That makes no more sense than me lumping Catholics into one nasty category due to the less than charitable (being kind on that one:p ) experiences I have had with them, ok? We are taught to love everyone; those who do not are falling severely short of the mark…

Annie
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Annie,
Thanks for the condolences, but they are real. I grew up in Utah County. I’m not lumping all Mormons together, but I do know my own experiences. Try being one of the less than “white and delightsome” and see how far it gets you within the church. I am the only member of my family on either side for 5 or more generations that have ever left. It wasn’t easy and it still isn’t. But being a Catholic is well worth it to me.

in Christ
Steph
 
tundramom said:
Annie,
Thanks for the condolences, but they are real. I grew up in Utah County. I’m not lumping all Mormons together, but I do know my own experiences. Try being one of the less than “white and delightsome” and see how far it gets you within the church. I am the only member of my family on either side for 5 or more generations that have ever left. It wasn’t easy and it still isn’t. But being a Catholic is well worth it to me.

in Christ
Steph
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I hope that you did not think I was making less of what happened to you. I know that “they are real” as you say. That is what is so sad. I am sure that it took more courage than I can understand to leave the church. I am so glad that you have found joy in your Catholic faith. I have been shunned by my family (not for religious reasons) to the point of not being told that my mother died until AFTER the memorial service. I do understand.

Annie
 
Annie_B said:
I hope that you did not think I was making less of what happened to you. I know that “they are real” as you say. That is what is so sad. I am sure that it took more courage than I can understand to leave the church. I am so glad that you have found joy in your Catholic faith. I have been shunned by my family (not for religious reasons) to the point of not being told that my mother died until AFTER the memorial service. I do understand.

Annie
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Annie,
Thanks again. I didn’t think you were making less of it at all. I, too, will probably not know when my Mother dies. I’ve subscribed to the obits at the Daily Herald so that I’m forewarned. I doubt they’ll tell me soon enough to get to the funeral. I’m sorry for your own horrible experiences as well! It sucks, doesn’t it? :ouch:

in Christ
Steph
 
tundramom said:
Annie,
Thanks again. I didn’t think you were making less of it at all. I, too, will probably not know when my Mother dies. I’ve subscribed to the obits at the Daily Herald so that I’m forewarned. I doubt they’ll tell me soon enough to get to the funeral. I’m sorry for your own horrible experiences as well! It sucks, doesn’t it? :ouch:

in Christ
Steph
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It sure does…I knew she had cancer so I checked the obits online about once a month. It turns out that I checked it the day she died…of course it was not in there. This just happened last month…sorry for getting off topic - I guess it just reinforces that none of us are immune to the bad behavior of others.

Annie
 
Meinrad said:
You are posting on Catholic.com… also, what I said earlier about how Mormons treated me when I moved here was the truth, and you rejected it out of hand saying you don’t believe a word of it. I have read the book of Mormon, and I don’t believe it, thats why I’m Catholic.
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You are entitled to your choice; and I am to mine. I have read the Book of Mormon, and know that it is true. I will quote from it to explain the thoelogy of my religion. I am not botherecd if somebody doesn’t like it.

zerinus
 
LaMar said:
I was born a Mormon and raised in a town called St. George.

This hate crime is not surprising. In fact, I have personally witnessed similar things throughout my life.

One example: during a family reunion we stopped in Carson City, Nevada, near the site of an old church. I was just a boy, but I witnessed my father and uncles go and “give a priesthood blessing” to a statue of the Virgin Mary outside. They laughed and joked about this, and boasted later that they had “cast out Satan”.

In context, it might help to understand that Mormons are taught from birth that the Catholic church is the “whore of babylon” mentioned in the Book of Revelations. The book Mormon Doctrine by the apostle Bruce R McConkie elucidates this idea quite plainly, and the author goes on with a prophesy that the anti-Christ will be appointed a pope in the future.

Mormons do not hate Catholic people, but we do feel sorry for them. We are taught that ours is the “one true church”. The Catholic church once had the truth, but has been changed into a Satanic counterfeit over the course of the centuries.

As an adult, I feel terrible about this incident, but I remember my youth and the attitudes we all grew up with, and I can sadly understand it. I see the same teachings and attitudes prevalent today. Even in this forum, there are those who would rather cover up or minimize the extent of the damage. This is the same dark, Satanic piety that motivated our church to commit the most horrible mass-murder in American History, until the terrorism of Oklahoma City. Until the CoJCoLDS can become honest about its own history, and quit demonizing and dehumanizing people of other faiths, the same sorts of tragedies (large and small) are likely to continue.
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I don’t know that the real blame for this rests so much on the “misguided missionaries,” as it does on the parents and culture that misguided them in the first place; as well as the responsible organization that will probably throw them to the wolves to avoid a PR debacle. As a Catholic who grew-up around lots of Mormons, I fully understand the mentality that allowed these guys to enter a Catholic Church, desecrate it in a highly debasing manner, and find absolutely nothing wrong with that behavior. While we were being taught absolute respect for all religions, the Mormons were being taught about the “great abominable church,” “the whore of Babylon,” and “the mother of all whores.” I heard this stuff adnauseam and I remember my parents being absolutely shocked that this kind of garbage was taught to children in a church. I had kind of hoped that this was changing, but I guess it’s the same old same old.

The only REAL victims here are those kids, who will now probably suffer some lasting consequences for what they have been taught to be acceptable, and obviously laudable, behavior.
 
Annie_B said:
This is what I was referring to:

<<Even then it still doesn’t portray the sense of sacrilege that a catholic would feel because of the LDS not believing in/understanding of the real presence.>>

The poster of this message sounded as if the Mormons could not understand the depth of their despair/offense due to the acts of sacrilege because of not beleiving in/understanding the “real presence” and this is probably true. There was then referenced a potential offense to the LDS church. I was merely saying, that by their very statement(s) it was obvious that there seems to be a misunderstanding of what is offensive and to what degree it is offensive to members of both churches. I think that it is fair to say that:)

Annie
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okay but I wasn’t aware any catholic had done such a thing. I certainly don’t endorse such an act. I was trying to speak in mormon terms to explain teh situation.
 
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