Mormon/Polygamy question

[teancum79]

you seem to believe that God would “save” someone yet still exile them. i think it’s very binary you either go to heaven and enjoy all OR you go to hell and get none. your definition of salvation is in my mind akin to finding a shipwrecked man on a remote island and giving him the means to obtain food and water and heal his injuries yet leave him there. i think when God rescues us he takes us home with him

Its far from binary there are 4 major divisions.

God offers us all that he has, but that does not mean that everyone will want it. Those who choose things over God (and do not repent) won’t be in the same place enjoying all the blessings of those who do put God above all else.

God invites us but he will never force us into heaven.

 

[BDawg]

you seem to believe that God would “save” someone yet still exile them. i think it’s very binary you either go to heaven and enjoy all OR you go to hell and get none. your definition of salvation is in my mind akin to finding a shipwrecked man on a remote island and giving him the means to obtain food and water and heal his injuries yet leave him there. i think when God rescues us he takes us home with him

Yo, Maj,

In the New Testament, Jesus sometimes talked about salvation/damnation in a binary sense, but other times made it sound more complicated. For instance, in the Parable of the Talents, Jesus talked about different servants receiving different rewards. Don’t Catholics believe in different levels of reward in heaven? It seems to me that the main difference, then is that Mormons divide heaven up spatially, as well.

 

[majick275]

Its far from binary there are 4 major divisions.

God offers us all that he has, but that does not mean that everyone will want it. Those who choose things over God (and do not repent) won’t be in the same place enjoying all the blessings of those who do put God above all else.

God invites us but he will never force us into heaven.

no. only in mormon theology.(and technically there are 7 categories there) and can a person partially reject god? jesus said he would spew the lukewarm from his mouth. even the BoM says you’re either with god or against him. sure some do a better job of living their faith but don’t forget what jesus taught about the debtors…and the laborers.

 

[teancum79]

no. only in mormon theology.(and technically there are 7 categories there) and can a person partially reject god? jesus said he would spew the lukewarm from his mouth. even the BoM says you’re either with god or against him. sure some do a better job of living their faith but don’t forget what jesus taught about the debtors…and the laborers.

7??? Would you care to elaborate?

 

[Filius99993]

Yo, Maj,

In the New Testament, Jesus sometimes talked about salvation/damnation in a binary sense, but other times made it sound more complicated. For instance, in the Parable of the Talents, Jesus talked about different servants receiving different rewards. Don’t Catholics believe in different levels of reward in heaven? It seems to me that the main difference, then is that Mormons divide heaven up spatially, as well.

No… there’s one Heaven… period. We would be pagans if we believed in a classist Heaven. Remember what Christ said about the women who had been remarried, and who she would remain with in Heaven? Direct application of that.

 

[majick275]

7??? Would you care to elaborate?

there are 3 “degrees” of celestial glory.

 

[majick275]

Yo, Maj,

In the New Testament, Jesus sometimes talked about salvation/damnation in a binary sense, but other times made it sound more complicated. For instance, in the Parable of the Talents, Jesus talked about different servants receiving different rewards. Don’t Catholics believe in different levels of reward in heaven? It seems to me that the main difference, then is that Mormons divide heaven up spatially, as well.

that would be a huge difference in my mind. in catholic doctrine there are no “border guards” in heaven blocking people from transiting throughout the holy city. while we may have different houses we all get to travel about freely and enjoy the presence of God. these are strictly human terms though to try understand the incomprehensible. catholic heaven is the beatific vision and all who are brought into god’s presence share all he has. Jesus parables taught a great deal about this. see the parable of the laborers in the vineyard and the parable of the two debtors especially. we have an obligation to obey God but we don’t EARN our salvation.

 

[teancum79]

there are 3 “degrees” of celestial glory.

Yes there are. which is you are 3+2 (the other kingdoms) +1(Outer Darkness) I get 6 using that method .

7th?

 

[falisrm]

We believe there are millions of degrees of heaven “numbered in stars”
LDS

 

[majick275]

Yes there are. which is you are 3+2 (the other kingdoms) +1(Outer Darkness) I get 6 using that method .

7th?

the category of intelligences waiting to be born as spirit children. i guess it’s a matter of time as well since until final judgment you have celestial kingdom (3) plus paradise and spirit prison plus the earth but no telestial, terrestrial or outer darkness yet and presumably teh intelligences for this universe have all been born as spirit children so that they could pass the first test in the war in heaven

 

[majick275]

We believe there are millions of degrees of heaven “numbered in stars”
LDS

aaaahh brainsmoke. yes multiply the above numbers by all other universes with their gods…and all that have gone before and are to come…

 

[distracted]

But then again, maybe it is as bad as some former polygamist women say it is. With the jealousy–the knowing that your husband is leaving your arms for another woman. With the husband never being there emotionaly (and barely there physically) for his wife (and yet the Biblical command is that husband and wife should cleave to each other.) With the father just about being non-existent for the children (all except the few moments in the beginning…) With the pattern of the guy just letting welfare pay for his way of life…

 

[distracted]

I am not advocating polygamy, (those are quotes from someone else, not me.) I’m just saying that maybe it isn’t as horrible as people make it out to be.

It is every bit as horrible as people make it out to be… or more so…

I do think that people who get married over and over, and have several batches of children by different spouses are (in a sense) polygamous, and much harm is done to their children by being split apart from their real parents.

I agree… but polygamy is polygamy is polygamy… whether all the wives live w/ the man at once or at separate times…

OK, maybe that isn’t fair… it is not polygamy if a man & woman marry, then realize later they made a big mistake, the marriage is annulled… they marry someone else…

 

[distracted]

Yo, dis,

Polygamy (or rather, bigamy) is illegal in Utah, just like every other state. The problem is that the polygamists there don’t legally marry more than one wife. They have a religious ceremony, but no one signs a state marriage certificate, or anything. .

Yeah, so why call it marriage?

What a farse… as someone else on the forums said, the Mormon religion is… the most… can’t recall the word for it… but something like “bizarre”… of all of them…

 

[distracted]

you seem to believe that God would “save” someone yet still exile them. i think it’s very binary you either go to heaven and enjoy all OR you go to hell and get none. your definition of salvation is in my mind akin to finding a shipwrecked man on a remote island and giving him the means to obtain food and water and heal his injuries yet leave him there. i think when God rescues us he takes us home with him

what? you don’t believe in Purgatory??

 

[BDawg]

Yeah, so why call it marriage?

What a farse… as someone else on the forums said, the Mormon religion is… the most… can’t recall the word for it… but something like “bizarre”… of all of them…

You are distracted, aren’t you?

First you rant about how polygamy should be illegal in Utah, and I explain that it is, but hard to prosecute. Now you rant that they shouldn’t call it marriage, then, and rant some more about how Mormons are weird.

Well, let’s be clear, here. First, these aren’t Mormons in the news–they’re from some weird little offshoot sect. We’re bizarre, all right–just not that bizarre. Second, do you actually think that Catholic marriages that aren’t solemnized by some civic authority shouldn’t be called “marriages”? Give me a break.

Dry up, and try using some reasoning skills.

 

[majick275]

what? you don’t believe in Purgatory??

yes i do. but purgatory is a temporary state and all in it are bound for heaven.

 

[majick275]

You are distracted, aren’t you?

First you rant about how polygamy should be illegal in Utah, and I explain that it is, but hard to prosecute. Now you rant that they shouldn’t call it marriage, then, and rant some more about how Mormons are weird.

Well, let’s be clear, here. First, these aren’t Mormons in the news–they’re from some weird little offshoot sect. We’re bizarre, all right–just not that bizarre. Second, do you actually think that Catholic marriages that aren’t solemnized by some civic authority shouldn’t be called “marriages”? Give me a break.

Dry up, and try using some reasoning skills.

while i agree with you in principle…point of fact, catholics who are married by civic authority do not have sacramentally valid marriage and accordig to canon law are living in sin unless/until the marriage is convalidated.

 

[BDawg]

while i agree with you in principle…point of fact, catholics who are married by civic authority do not have sacramentally valid marriage and accordig to canon law are living in sin unless/until the marriage is convalidated.

Thanks, Maj,

You make my point, exactly. While I’m not a fan of the FLDS, I think it is stupid to criticize them for taking their religious marriage ceremonies more seriously than the civil ones.

 

[distracted]

No… there’s one Heaven… period. We would be pagans if we believed in a classist Heaven. Remember what Christ said about the women who had been remarried, and who she would remain with in Heaven? Direct application of that.

i don’t think this is accurate. I believe some of the saints said there were levels of Heaven, and where you end up depends on various things…