P
penguinchicky
Guest
Wow that is scary … I’m sure God does not care if you gave money or not rather that you were a good person.
- Status
X
Xavierlives
Guest
*And participate in Temple ordinations.
D
dianaiad
Guest
According to this, your statement is not quite correct. An excommunicated Catholic will remain a Christian, because his baptism is permanent and cannot be affected in any way–by his choice or by any other (which is ironic, given any objection to proxy babtism by Mormons…)–he most certainly does NOT remain Catholic. In fact, an excommunicated Catholic suffers the "loss of the sacraments, public services and prayers of the Church, ecclesiastical burial, jurisdiction, benefices, canonical rights, and social intercourse. " (from the New Advent website to which I have provided the link).
In other words, an excommunicated Catholic cannot attend church (an excommunicated Mormon is encouraged to do so), be buried in consecrated ground (an excommunicated Mormon may be buried in ground consecrated for burial), or have any dealings with the church at all. Until fairly recently, excommunicated Catholics were shunned in all things: good Catholics could not speak to, write to, or other wise communicate with them. They could not do business with them, or eat with them, or tender any mark of respect (like a curtsy, a salute or so much as a ‘thank you.’) UNLESS of course the faithful member is the spouse or child of the excommunicated one, or when it was against civil law to be rude.
Now these provisions do not apply, UNLESS the excommunicated person is ‘vitandi,’ that is, someone whose excommuncation includes the provision of shunning, or who is ‘notoriously’ (that is, it couldn’t be covered up) 'guilty of striking a cleric."
In the meantime, while Catholics may pray for their excommunicated members, those excommunicated members had better not pray for them.
If that means they are still Catholic–perhaps they’d be better off not being Catholic. When a Mormon is excommunicated, the members of the ward he or she is in are expected to keep in contact; to fellowship and encourage him to return: to treat him or her with kindness–as much as that excommunicated one will allow it, that is.
Now I have met excommunicated members; they fall roughly into two types: the ones who were excommunicated for committing a grave sin, like adultery, and the ones who were excommunicated for apostasy/heresy. I’m not going to count, here, the ones who take it upon themselves to resign.
Whatever the reason for the excommunication, people seem to react either with humility or bitterness…and frankly, the bitter ones are the ones who do the shunning. As well, when a man (or woman) is excommunicated for committing adultery, and finds that his or her family isn’t happy about it, they sometimes blame the church for ‘shunning’ them–and never consider that their own betrayal has caused the rift. I mean, really…
There is a local orthodontist here who was in the stake presidency; we thought the world and all of him. However, he decided that his two dental assistants were better company than his wife, and he dumped her–and his kids–for their company. During the divorce, even though they had been married for 15 years and SHE had worked for ten of them putting him through college and dental/orthodontist school, he tried to take everything from her, and spent the next ten years refusing to pay alimony or child support. He was/is a real jerk.
He’s also rather prominent in the community, and is very fond of saying, in interviews, that the LDS church is shunning him.
Well, gee whiz–I wouldn’t want that man straightening the braces on MY 16 year old, and I don’t care what religion he is, or used to be! And Rebecca, if you want to call that character assassination, go right ahead. (shrug) But I have found that most Mormons who are excommunicated for such reasons follow that sort of path, UNLESS they accept it as it is meant–as the Catholics claim they mean excommunication to be for them–a road back. It’s a way for them to grow, take care of what they need to take care of, and come back clean, with a new, fresh start. THAT’S what excommunication is supposed to be.
As for ‘character assassination,’ Rebecca, I see more of that from excommunicated members of all faiths toward their old religions than I ever see from the religions to the excommunicants.
D
dianaiad
Guest
“Interogated?”
In a Temple Recomend interview, I am asked if I am a full tithe payer. I say yes–and that’s the end of that. If I say “no,” the bishop might ask when I thought I could become a full tithe payer. I would answer with when, or simply 'not yet," and that would be the end of that. If you call that “interogation,” you haven’t been watching enough episodes of 'The Closer."
And no, we don’t have to wear strange underwear. Those of us who have gone to the Temple WANT to wear Temple garments, but we don’t think they are strange at all. In fact, they are a lot more comfortable, both summer and winter, than the typical bra/pantie/briefs/boxers choice.
D
dianaiad
Guest
Does He not? If He does not, then why do you bother baptizing babies, or excommunicate people yourself?
D
dianaiad
Guest
“If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
Can you be a good person if you don’t do as He asks us to do? Or do WE get to pick what ‘good,’ means, so that we can pick and choose what things we should do, or not do, in order to be a ‘good person?’
A
averagejoe84
Guest
While Dianaiad is correct about the level of inquiry that goes on regarding the payment of tithes, it’s not an interrogation at all, the stuff about garments made me giggle.
Trust me, garments are not more comfortable than boxers, I wouldn’t want to comment on the bra/pantie combo though!
Also to say that mormons want to wear them is nothing but spin! If they’re taking their temple rituals seriously they do HAVE to wear them.
M
Marie5890
Guest
Then things have changed a bit Diana.
When I was LDS, after one had gone thru the temple one of the temple recommend questions (to determine worthiness) was somehting along the lines of “do you wear the official temple garment as prescribed?”
So, in order to be considered temple worthy, one was required to wear the priesthood garments at all times (minus those activities were it ok to go without…ie, sports, sex, bathing, etc)
X
Xavierlives
Guest
And they are stylish!
M
Marie5890
Guest
Yes.
It’s really not optional. It’s a have to. Its even a question in the temple recommend interview for those who have been thru.
X
Xavierlives
Guest
I’m almost afraid to mention this, but I’m guessing the “underwear maker” is Mormon-owned?
D
dianaiad
Guest
“nothing but spin?”While Dianaiad is correct about the level of inquiry that goes on regarding the payment of tithes, it’s not an interrogation at all, the stuff about garments made me giggle.
Trust me, garments are not more comfortable than boxers, I wouldn’t want to comment on the bra/pantie combo though!
tell me, what force is being used? Does a local Homeland Security agent put cameras in the bedrooms to make sure that Mormons are wearing the garments–and march them off in chains if they don’t?
Do you see black helicopters landing on lawns, with garment enforcers checking for 'Mormon smiles" on the backs of all the men? I mean, really…get a grip.
Nobody HAS to take their religion seriously. They WANT to do so, and if they WANT to, then they WANT to do that which goes with it. A Catholic who takes his religion seriously doesn’t HAVE to say the rosary or go to confession. He WANTS to. It’s part of that ‘taking the religion seriously’ thing.
M
Marie5890
Guest
Yes. I believe Desert Industries is the maker?
Don’t really remember.
Their construction has to meet certain standards.
I didnt particularly mind them too much, except during the summer. I live in an area that is very humid. More fabric, sticky.
And for a female during their monthly period could get a bit extra bulky depending on what kind of feminine products a woman chose.
The bra is suppose to be worn on the outside of the garment (ie the garment is suppose to be closest to the skin, not the bra)
One thing the garment is not is sexy. So wearing pretty feminine underware (ie colored or lace etc) kinda looked dumb cause the garment is always white (with the expection of those LDS who serve in the military. There are special colored garments for them )
Don’t really remember.
Their construction has to meet certain standards.
I didnt particularly mind them too much, except during the summer. I live in an area that is very humid. More fabric, sticky.
And for a female during their monthly period could get a bit extra bulky depending on what kind of feminine products a woman chose.
The bra is suppose to be worn on the outside of the garment (ie the garment is suppose to be closest to the skin, not the bra)
One thing the garment is not is sexy. So wearing pretty feminine underware (ie colored or lace etc) kinda looked dumb cause the garment is always white (with the expection of those LDS who serve in the military. There are special colored garments for them )
D
dianaiad
Guest
Of course. If you want to go to the Temple, then you will wear the garments. If you don’t want to, or don’t care about it, you don’t wear them.
I am objecting to this issue of ‘have to’ as in ‘forced’ or 'enforced."
No Catholic HAS to go to confession…but if he WANTS to take communion, he also WANTS to go to confession, because they go together; the confessional prepares one to be worthy/ready to take communion.
Diana
M
Marie5890
Guest
Point well taken.
I was just pointing out that to be considered a worthy Mormon (one in good standing), one is required to wear the garment if they have been thru the temple.
But you are right. There are no “garment police” doing body searches .
X
Xavierlives
Guest
But our Father sees all, so who needs black helicopters?
X
Xavierlives
Guest
Wow! SO the church makes the underware?!? That’s amazing! The Gap makes mine.
M
Marie5890
Guest
Not so much for you Diana, but just incase other people read that and think that saying the rosary is a “have” to for those who live Catholic teaching.
The answer is no. The rosary really is optional.
Confession, of course, is different, and considered a sacrament.
The rosary is a devotion only. No expectations one way or the other.
M
Marie5890
Guest
Yes, unless they have subcontracted it out these days, they did when I was LDS.
D
dianaiad
Guest
- Status