Mormon temple ceremonies

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LDSGuy said:
Ok I understand that! 🙂 I think our hang-up is that I am saying that the respects paid to a statue, whether it’s lighting a candle, placing flowers in front of, etc. are called veneration, and believe me, I understand that you don’t worship statues, or believe that it’s possessed (like the Hindu belief of prana pratishtha). So I wasn’t saying that Catholics venerate statues because that veneration ends with the statue. The respects (veneration) paid to the images are meant to signify the veneration of the saint, Mary, God, etc, not the statue only.
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Yes, just like Mormons venerate the statue of Moroni.
 
I would still love to know why LDS would rather have statues of weird looking sunstones, pentagrams, beehives, carpenters square, compass, Maroni, moonstone, and an allseeing eye, instead of Jesus statues, or statues of Saints, or Doves…It does not make a bit of sense to me at all. If people didn’t know better, you wouldn’t be able to tell from the inside or outside, that is a place where people worship God, or Jesus, or anything pertaining to Christianity!
 
LAMBOFGODGIRLY said:
I would still love to know why LDS would rather have statues of weird looking sunstones, pentagrams, beehives, carpenters square, compass, Maroni, moonstone, and an allseeing eye, instead of Jesus statues, or statues of Saints, or Doves…It does not make a bit of sense to me at all. If people didn’t know better, you wouldn’t be able to tell from the inside or outside, that is a place where people worship God, or Jesus, or anything pertaining to Christianity!
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except for the huge “Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints” sign in front of every Temple. 😉 Also it says “House of the Lord, Holiness unto the Lord” outside the temples, as they truly are the House of our Lord and Savior, and everything done inside them is in reference to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I believe I linked to articles discussing the images found around temples, but here are some more which address your concerns:

users.marshall.edu/~brown/nauvoo/nt-parent.html (click on symbolism and it briefly addresses your points)
fairlds.org/Restoring_the_Ancient_Church/chap06.html
jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_masons.shtml
mormon-temple-ceremony.com/masonry.html
 
LDSGuy said:
:rolleyes:these are all videos that help explain the temple. Why read when you can also watch (including an ABC special that is hardly completely pro-LDS).
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I watched the first two.

The series of temple information are missionary materials. So, be a little honest here. Too much to ask?
 
RebeccaJ said:
I watched the first two.

The series of temple information are missionary materials. So, be a little honest here. Too much to ask?
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The temple series provides views from multiple non-LDS people on the importance of the temple from Old Testament to present times, as well as an overview of its purposes today in the LDS Church. I honestly didn’t know they were “missionary materials”, and they are hardly trying to convert Catholics or anyone. The purpose of them being posted was to provide more balanced views on the temple, instead of the usual “they are blasphemous, secret handshakes, slitting throats, freemasons, upside down pentagrams, etc.”
 
LDSGuy said:
“they are blasphemous, secret handshakes, slitting throats, freemasons, upside down pentagrams, etc.”
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none of which is discussed in any of these videos.

The purpose of the temples in the OT is known to Catholics. Where the temples of today are located and their purpose is also known.

1197 Christ is the true temple of God, “the place where his glory dwells”; by the grace of God, Christians also become the temples of the Holy Spirit, living stones out of which the Church is built.

[756](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/756.htm’)😉 "Often, too, the Church is called the *building *of God. The Lord compared himself to the stone which the builders rejected, but which was made into the corner-stone. On this foundation the Church is built by the apostles and from it the Church receives solidity and unity. This edifice has many names to describe it: the house of God in which his *family *dwells; the household of God in the Spirit; the dwelling-place of God among men; and, especially, the holy temple. This temple, symbolized in places of worship built out of stone, is praised by the Fathers and, not without reason, is compared in the liturgy to the Holy City, the New Jerusalem. As living stones we here on earth are built into it. It is this holy city that is seen by John as it comes down out of heaven from God when the world is made anew, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.
 
The series of temple information are missionary materials. So, be a little honest here. Too much to ask?
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Relax Rebecca, no one is trying to convert you back to Mormonism. LDSGuy is simply trying to answer the original question posted by LAMBOFGODGIRLY:
Why are there no Crucifixes or statues of Jesus in the Mormon Temples, but there are other strange things like, the all seeing eye, the bee hive, compass, carpenters square, moon stone, sun stone, star stone, and of all things, a pentagram ?
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Posting links to videos which explain what we believe about temples is a perfectly valid (although admittedly lazy) way of answering those questions.

As to the original question about why there are no crucifixes but other symbols in our temples the following answers are reasonably accurate:
Mormons do not wish to remember Jesus as dead or dying on the cross. They continue to claim he is alive and well, which other Christians believe as well-- you know, in Heaven.
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The eye represents the eye of God watchng over us. The sun, moon and star stones are representative of the three degrees of glory…The square and compass come from the temple of Solomon and are symbols of the stone mason skills. The star is apparantly just a stylistic choice popular when the original temple was built in the 1840’s.
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I would also like to add a few clarifications of my own.

The Sunstones on the Nauvoo Temple represent the celestial kingdom. Where we believe god to exist and live. There are similar markings (sun, moon, stars) on the Salt Lake Temple representing the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms respectively. I will not bore anyone with the details of our beliefs regarding these kingdoms but simply state they are degrees of glory obtained through obedience to the laws of God.

While there are no crucifixes or statues of Christ in the temples they are not void of his image or spirit. There are numerous paintings in the temples which depict Christ and moments in his life. While none of these images are worshiped or “venerated” (If I understand the word correctly) we still feel close to the Lord and remember him as we make/renew covenants with him in these holy places.
 
JLFuller said:
Mormons believe the cross represents mankind’s failure and resulted in Christ’s death.
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Mormons believe it represents “mankind’s failure”?? Which Mormons believe this? Source please.
We believe Christ’s atonement happened in the garden of Gethsemene when He sweat great drops of blood. The bleeding was from the pain He suffered during the process of the atonement. It was there that He paid for our sins and not on the cross.
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Correction. Mormons believe that Jesus suffered, atoned, and paid for sin in both the Garden and on the cross. This is the official doctrine of the Church.
We believe the spire represents Christ’s triumph over death in the resurection. We use that symbol on our buildings.
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True.
The beehive is a symbol of industry and thrift.
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Agreed. And this symbol (along with many others) was evidently adopted from freemasonry.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Stop proselyting.
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You do it all the time but against the lds church. 🙂 When a mormon posts positive information about the lds church they are proselyting. But when a catholic posts antimormn information about the lds church, they are simply just imparting information. :rolleyes:
 
LAMBOFGODGIRLY said:
I would still love to know why LDS would rather have statues of weird looking sunstones, pentagrams, beehives, carpenters square, compass, Maroni, moonstone, and an allseeing eye, instead of Jesus statues, or statues of Saints, or Doves…It does not make a bit of sense to me at all. If people didn’t know better, you wouldn’t be able to tell from the inside or outside, that is a place where people worship God, or Jesus, or anything pertaining to Christianity!
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Actually… Joseph Smith’s church provided an answer to the Christian Seekers and Primitivists of his day, who searched for the restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ. Many of them (including Masons) cited Revelations 12, which says the expected Bride of Christ would be clothed in the Sun, wear a crown of Stars, and have the Moon at her feet. Some Masons even identified the Bride as Freemasonry itself. For a person who claimed to restore Christianity and Freemasonry back to its pure original form, the symbolism on the Nauvoo temple couldn’t have been more appropriate. As for the pentagram windows, notice the cruciform stonework around them. Most Mormons don’t notice this. The cross pentagrams (together) represent the LDS temple endowment, where the initiate receives the symbolic wounds of Christ’s crucifixion, assume the position of the five points of fellowship, and are pulled through the veil.

The Salt Lake temple has a different symbolic expression than the Nauvoo temple does, but both were heavily influenced by Masonic symbolism.
 
Jash said:
Mormons do not wish to remember Jesus as dead or dying on the cross. They continue to claim he is alive and well, which other Christians believe as well-- you know, in Heaven.
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Although I understand that this is the most popular claim promoted by Mormons today, it is just a post-hoc rationalization that has little to no logical or historical validity. Consider the fact that Mormons are just fine about remembering Jesus’ death during the sacrament/communion, and while attending the temple (as they receive the symbolic nails of Christ).
The sun, moon and star stones are representative of the three degrees of glory.
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On the Salt Lake Temple, yes. But not on the Nauvoo temple. Otherwise, the order is mixed up, since the stars are placed above the sun. As I mentioned before, the Nauvoo temple symbolism on the stone pilasters represents the Bride of Christ (Rev. 12), who is clothed in the Sun, wears a crown of stars, and has the moon at her feet.
The square and compass come from the temple of Solomon and are symbols of the stone mason skills.
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Symbols that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young adopted from Freemasonry.
The star is apparantly just a stylistic choice popular when the original temple was built in the 1840’s.
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No it isn’t. As I described above… The star, together with the cruciform stonework surrounding it, represents the LDS endowment.
 
The LDS cross aversion is a late development in Mormon history. It began at the grass-roots level around the turn of the 20th century, and later became institutionalized as protocol under the direction of President McKay, on grounds that it was a “Catholic” tradition. Prior to this time, several prominent Saints embraced and promoted the symbol of the cross. The 1916 cross monument Ensign Peak proposal is a good example. Crosses were also commonly displayed in floral arrangements at LDS funerals.

To those who may be interested, my MA thesis–on the development of the LDS cross aversion–should be finished this April.
 
why_me said:
You do it all the time but against the lds church. 🙂 When a mormon posts positive information about the lds church they are proselyting. But when a catholic posts antimormn information about the lds church, they are simply just imparting information. :rolleyes:
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whyme, you know very well that mormons have the directive from their leaders to proselyte, at all times, and specifically have been given instructions to do so on the internet. Perhaps you can pretend otherwise but don’t expect that I’m going to play along.
 
RebeccaJ said:
whyme, you know very well that mormons have the directive from their leaders to proselyte, at all times, and specifically have been given instructions to do so on the internet. Perhaps you can pretend otherwise but don’t expect that I’m going to play along.
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There is a slight difference between apologetics and proselytization. However, neither one necessarily uses methods nor materials that are mutually exclusive. This can therefore cause some confusion on this forum. But in my view… to outlaw these shared methods and materials would be an unfair advantage to Catholic apologists here. I am assuming that Catholic apologists here want a level playing field. So if that is the case, I would suggest outlawing materials and methods that are distinctly proselytory in nature. Otherwise, this forum could very quickly turn into a back-patting session. How unfortunate that would be! 🙂

Here is an idea: Since I am an ex-Mormon agnostic (and therefore have no interest in converting anyone to the LDS Church), maybe I could post the links. What do ya say?

youtube.com/watch?v=ehNbBt0OpdU

youtube.com/watch?v=azAFsfDrd2w
youtube.com/watch?v=QwGeD3-won0
youtube.com/watch?v=PxuBkXjyHFk
youtube.com/watch?v=7om1Hs0qs54
youtube.com/watch?v=yZ1XqnT-7Ko

youtube.com/watch?v=nni9bHgxsxY

Are all happy now?
 
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