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xixxvmcm85
Guest
It’s not necessarily a consequence of the “polygamist lifestyle”, rather of inbreeding.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
I could be wrong but I bet the “prophets” sons weren’t put out on the streets
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StrawberryJam
Guest
What is the cause of inbreeding then? Other than God said it was okay for prophets to do so. Royalty did the same thing also.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Biblical inbreeding could be related to ensure royal blood, the prophets’ blood line, and the Messianic line that St. Matthew shares with us on Christmas Eve, the time of that particular reading during the liturgical year.
I know of a town that has a reputation of people marrying cousins, and there is a disproportionate number of intellectually disabled people residing there.
I know of a town that has a reputation of people marrying cousins, and there is a disproportionate number of intellectually disabled people residing there.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Right, in fact when the Joseph Smith family left CT for Northern New-England, they would have encountered this behavior there. This was not un-heard of in remote areas of the North. So to some degree I assume that Mr.Smiths exposure came from here.
Peace
Peace
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rmcmullan
Guest
That’s an interesting question, the one about how polygamy affects culture and whether or not it promotes the suppression of women. It seems that the FLDS women weren’t much better off than Muslim women. And conceivably that’s just a throwback to a way of life more prevelant in the Civil War times. And as I have noted before, Carolyn’s daughter did return to live with the FLDS despite that being the main reason Caorlyn escaped.
Merril Jessop, who is now in charge of the FLDS, was a very bad husband. He abused most of his wives. In one particular episode, Carolyn talks about how she was sent to manage a hotel Merril Jessop owned. After some time, she and another FLDS guy were returning it to profitability and improving its reputation. So Merril came to visit. To make a long story short, he set up a criminal who had been snooping about the place to live there in hopes of I don’t know what but Carolyn was in serious trouble with that guy around. Yet he intentionally put her in harms way.
It is possible that he was just a rare creep but you throw in Jeffs and you wonder about a system that supports abusive men. That doesn’t require the men to behave badly but it supports it. In most marriages, the woman would fight the man but in polygamy, they’re so dependent on him and so busy competing with the other wives, it’s almost impossible.
Merril Jessop, who is now in charge of the FLDS, was a very bad husband. He abused most of his wives. In one particular episode, Carolyn talks about how she was sent to manage a hotel Merril Jessop owned. After some time, she and another FLDS guy were returning it to profitability and improving its reputation. So Merril came to visit. To make a long story short, he set up a criminal who had been snooping about the place to live there in hopes of I don’t know what but Carolyn was in serious trouble with that guy around. Yet he intentionally put her in harms way.
It is possible that he was just a rare creep but you throw in Jeffs and you wonder about a system that supports abusive men. That doesn’t require the men to behave badly but it supports it. In most marriages, the woman would fight the man but in polygamy, they’re so dependent on him and so busy competing with the other wives, it’s almost impossible.
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Cowboy_Pete
Guest
:crying:
No!
The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is eternal marriage, i.e. the doctrine that one is married for time and all eternity. That you can do monogamously.
Yes, the same chapter goes on to say that it’s OK, if the first wife consents, for a man to take a second wife, but there were other limits on that historically, and the practice has been suspended indefinitely.
A “fundamentalist mormon” is a contradiction in terms. Fundamentalism in its essence is anathema to everything that the church teaches.
Those that call themselves mormon fundamentalists are neither mormon nor fundamentalists … they are the opposite error from fundamentalism; they partake of the same unstable hysteria that Jim Jones and David Koresh took.
Actual fundamentalists are the opposite error – they rewrite history and pretend that their new ideas were always what everyone in the faith believed. They point back to some imaginary king arthur time when everything was dandy, before these awful new ideas crept in.
That’s why real religious fundamentalists end up going on killing sprees against outsiders, whereas Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the so called “mormon fundamentalist” pligs end up killing their own families and other members.
A plague on both houses.
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Diakonia
Guest
"StrawberryJam:
Keep in mind, too, that “inbreeding” is not necessarily the cut and dry set of circumstances that we perceive in marriages between royal or hillbilly cousins. Any relatively small community with limited influx of new ‘blood’ will over time produce marriages between peoples not known to be related in any degree of consanguinity that would lead one to anticipate adverse outcomes in births. However, carriers of recessive genes will, ultimately, come together with bad results.
Amish communities are beset with such circumstances, despite the fact that they frequently - even generally - reach outside the immediate community to distant settlements of the same Church in seeking marriage partners, just to avoid the problem. Yet, it is enough of an issue that Johns Hopkins Medical Center conducts research on and conducts several clinics devoted to genetic disorders that are prevalent among the Amish and some others of the Plain Peoples.
Actually, there are myriad potential genetic consequences from inbreeding. Fumarase deficiency is hardly high on the list. There are only about 3 dozen reported cases in the entire medical literature, although about 2/3 of those originated in the FLDS border towns in AZ and UT and . But, those also represent extreme instances of inbreeding and the mainstream Mormon community is not implicated in them, so the point is not well-taken.
Keep in mind, too, that “inbreeding” is not necessarily the cut and dry set of circumstances that we perceive in marriages between royal or hillbilly cousins. Any relatively small community with limited influx of new ‘blood’ will over time produce marriages between peoples not known to be related in any degree of consanguinity that would lead one to anticipate adverse outcomes in births. However, carriers of recessive genes will, ultimately, come together with bad results.
Amish communities are beset with such circumstances, despite the fact that they frequently - even generally - reach outside the immediate community to distant settlements of the same Church in seeking marriage partners, just to avoid the problem. Yet, it is enough of an issue that Johns Hopkins Medical Center conducts research on and conducts several clinics devoted to genetic disorders that are prevalent among the Amish and some others of the Plain Peoples.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
A bit ironic, having your Christianity and denying them their Mormonism.
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Cowboy_Pete
Guest
How so?
Does it stretch your imagination to suggest that being a “mormon” would have something to do with the book of mormon?
Do you know what the book of mormon says about polygamy, and about the abuse of women and children?
Can you show me any pre-1830 definition of Christianity that mormons don’t fit?
The only way you can exclude us from Christianity is by making up a new definition of Christianity that we don’t fit.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
And the FLDS hold the BoM as scripture and regard JS as a prophet and they call themselves Mormons.
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Cowboy_Pete
Guest
Well, they can do that. You can do it too, if it tickles your fancy. We don’t dedicate long blogs to yapping about how the FLDS aren’t really Mormons. But in my opinion, they aren’t; they don’t follow the teachings of the Book of Mormon, not do they follow the spirit of the religion taught by JS.
But then, I’m more interested in protecting the victims of their abuse, while some of you would rather just use them to smear us.
Do you know any mormons?
Do you know any pligs?
If you did, you’d recognize there was a pretty huge difference.
Stephen168
New member
And they engage in the non-christian practice of polygamy invented by Joseph Smith; At least FLDS are consistent in their beliefs over time.
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SteveVH
Guest
That would be my description of the LDS in general.
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Cowboy_Pete
Guest
Invented? Oh please. Know your own history.
Charlemagne had more wives than Mohammed, and you all made him the first Holy Christian Emperor.
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Denise1957
Guest
I think that Charlamagne’s wives were at least successive. According to New Advent, when Charlemagne’s wife Hildegard (not clear if she was the second or third wife) died, he married Fastrada. And of course Charlemage did not advocate polygamy, as Joseph Smith did.
How many wives did Joseph Smith have at the time of his death?
Stephen168
New member
fallacy of composition
Yes, FLDS engage in the non-christian practice of polygamy invented by Joseph Smith, so they are consistent in their beliefs over time. They still follow the teachings of Joseph Smith.
Stephen168
New member
When a Catholic does something wrong we call it a sin not a revelation from God.
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SteveVH
Guest
Charlemagne had five wives, but never at the same time. He was not a polygamist. I’m not here to defend him, but you should get your facts straight before you make such a comparison.
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Denise1957
Guest
:yup:
True.
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