Mormonism

[LivingWaters7]

You just went through a long trail of explanation that says exactly that, which does not in any way align to what Paul’s letter to the Hebrews teaches. Mormonism makes man the center, not God.

No, rereading what I posted, it does not say that the “emptying” of Christ was His “starting place”, which certainly does not make sense in the context of Latter-day Saint beliefs on the Godhead, God in the Old Testament, etc.

 

[LivingWaters7]

I agree with Jerusha. I remember clearly Mormons teaching that Mary was just an ordinary woman. Denying the virgin birth of Jesus. Guessing, or claiming as truth (depending on the Mormon) at God copulating with one of His own creations.

Latter-day Saints firmly believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, and that Mary was chosen by God to bring our Savior into the world. If a Latter-day Saint denied the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, they are going against the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ. While we do not believe that she was immaculately conceived, assumed into Heaven, perpetually a virgin, etc., we certainly do not denigrate her. Indeed, even if we state that she was “just” an ordinary woman, we know that God works through “just” ordinary people to work great miracles.

 

[LivingWaters7]

I think what he means is that LDS don’t believe that Adam and Eve sinned, or that Original Sin is the cause of all their descendants being tainted by that sin and more inclined to sin, themselves. They believe it was just “part of God’s plan” to test us, so there’s no actual guilt involved. All we have to do is learn and ‘progress in knowledge’ by following all of the man made laws set down by Joseph Smith and his followers, aka “the law of Mormon”. If that’s the case, then according to LDS belief there really isn’t any actual sin in the world that wasn’t planned by God, and only those who are outside of the LDS church, or reject it outright, are true sinners. That’s why they think they have to ‘baptize the dead’ to give everyone a chance to accept Mormonism, even if it’s in the ‘spirit world’.

Unfortunately none of this is correct in actual Latter-day Saint belief. What he was talking about was that Latter-day Saints believe that we are responsible for our own sins, and that we cannot be held responsible or “guilty” for the sins of others. Latter-day Saints do believe that the sin of Adam and Eve did cause spiritual and physical death to enter into the world, however we are not held guilty for their sin (hence we do not believe in a concept of someone dying in original sin and necessary speculation as to what happens to such persons). We believe that God can and does bring good out of wrongdoing and evil, and such is the case in the “happy fault” of Adam and Eve.

There is no such thing as “the law of Mormon”, so I am not sure what you are referring to. As far as your statement that " If that’s the case, then according to LDS belief there really isn’t any actual sin in the world that wasn’t planned by God, and only those who are outside of the LDS church, or reject it outright, are true sinners.", that of course is not true at all in actual Latter-day Saint belief. We believe that all are sinners, and that those in the Church of Jesus Christ sin too, and we are called to continuous repentance based on faith in our Savior Jesus Christ.

We baptize the dead because, first and foremost, we believe that it is a revealed practice from God. The reasoning behind it is we believe that God has provided this means whereby all will have a chance, whether in this life or the next, to hear and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and come unto Christ.

That belief makes God the author of our sin, which is blasphemy. God does not promote anyone to do evil. That’s Lucifer’s plan. He’s the one that breeds confusion about what sin really is, so that men will think that evil is good and good is evil. We’re the ones that must choose to follow him instead of God, by exercising our own free will. The guilt of doing that is our own. Saying “the serpent deceived me” to God, when we stand before Him to be judged, won’t help us any more than it did Eve.

Latter-day Saints certainly do not believe that God is the author of sin, nor do we believe that evil is good.

 

[TexanKnight]

Latter-day Saints firmly believe in the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, and that Mary was chosen by God to bring our Savior into the world.

Actually, that is untrue. BY taught that your god (the exalted man) had actual intercourse with Mary. That means she was no longer a Virgin.

If a Latter-day Saint denied the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, they are going against the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ.

So, are we in agreement, then, that BY was not a prophet? After all, a true prophet of God would not teach false doctrine.

While we do not believe that she was immaculately conceived, assumed into Heaven, perpetually a virgin, etc., we certainly do not denigrate her.

Teaching against the facts of Mary’s life DOES denigrate Her.

 

[TexanKnight]

Unfortunately none of this is correct in actual Latter-day Saint belief. What he was talking about was that Latter-day Saints believe that we are responsible for our own sins, and that we cannot be held responsible or “guilty” for the sins of others. Latter-day Saints do believe that the sin of Adam and Eve did cause spiritual and physical death to enter into the world, however we are not held guilty for their sin (hence we do not believe in a concept of someone dying in original sin and necessary speculation as to what happens to such persons).

Can you please define which Adam? The one the True God made from the dust of the ground, or the that your temple says was the Angel Michael but your prophet said was our god?

We baptize the dead because, first and foremost, we believe that it is a revealed practice from God. The reasoning behind it is we believe that God has provided this means whereby all will have a chance, whether in this life or the next, to hear and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and come unto Christ.

Not to rehash another thread, but you actually do it because Joseph misinterpreted Corinthians and now you are stuck with it.

Latter-day Saints certainly do not believe that God is the author of sin, nor do we believe that evil is good.

Actually, you do. You believe it was all great that Adam and Eve fell.

 

[RebeccaJ]

If a Latter-day Saint denied the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, they are going against the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ.

If? I’m not lying.

That’s the thing with individual Mormons, so many different beliefs, and all say they are going by the teachings of the LDS church. Perhaps it is because you aren’t clear on definitions among each other?

Just to be clear, The Church of Jesus Christ teaches Mary is the Mother of God, ever Virgin, and taken into Heaven to be at her Son’s side, as she was in life.

 

[Pork_Roll]

The BOM is absolutely a fabrication. I don’t understand how anyone could honestly believe in the accounts of Joe Smith after doing a little research.

 

[somegreatreward]

So according to the information I’ve seen. Elohim (The “father god” of Mormonism) committed Heavenly incest with Mary correct? I’ve heard many a time where the so called “prophets” and “apostles” have said that Elohim is Jehovah’s Father in the flesh. I can only imagine ( with great disgust ) that the only way that is possible is by physical relations. Unless of course, Elohim artificially insemenated Mary. Is that a plausability in Mormonism?

 

[KathleenGee]

great post, PepbandMom…

And your last post, Rebecca, was exactly what I was going to say…

The Catholic Church IS the Church of Jesus Christ, and Christ is God and Christ is His Mother, who conceived Him through the Holy Spirit, and subsequently is the Mother of God.

A protestant minister said after being with Mormon men for two years discussing points of beliefs, said that every single one held different concepts.

However…I truly believe there is an authentic movement happening within Mormonism…with the many that are leaving…(but we pray they do not fall into atheism)…to those staying but shedding these recent (in consideration of the 2,000 year history of authentic Christian faith) strange ideas of Joseph Smith.

The Mormon men are now discovering the Early Church Fathers and are trying so so so hard to twist and invert their true intentions, context, and teachings…to instead prove Mormonism.

I just read a response by Fr Longbrecker to a Mormon man who brought up an early church teacher…to prove Fr wrong…and Fr. came back with the truth of Marcion and the historical context of what really happened…

Afterall, this event is inside the universal church and its documents…we have the biggest library in the world…that nobody can match…

Any opponent to the Universal, Apostolic Catholic Church…to prove support for a man made church…by stepping inside and using a few comments by this or that early church father or teacher to prove their man made church…they always always always fall flat on their face.

Each generation we learn more about God. As an apostle said there would never be enough books about Christ…

How many consistent books do the Mormons have about Christ…they change all the time.

T H I N K.

 

[1voice]

Latter-day Saints do not believe that Jesus Christ emptying Himself “was His starting place”. Hebrews accords quite nicely with the doctrines on Christ of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Hebrews, as well as all of the other books in the Old and New Testament are accepted as the true history and foundation of true Christianity… (“in much as they are translated correctly”… according to Mormon leadership)
If the Bible, and its translators, are held to that standard… why are Mormon writings and their translators, not held to that standard as well?

 

[Garland]

Hello and goodby to all, I submitted a post compareing the mormon god and the true God and stating they are two distinct beings, They are in no way even described the same so they must be two different beings. I also tried to warn the mormon readers of the destruction that awaits for following a demon such as lucifer. Mr. Hilbert found trouble with the post and deleted it with no reason given to me for doing so, so I`ll just leave and not bother him again. Blessings to you all, mormons included, and Mr. Hilbert also. Garland

 

[tarboy]

rebecca
I think the majority of protestant churches disagree with your highlighted text
The ‘ever virgin’ part is widely disputed as is the Assumption (what it seems you were describing).

If? I’m not lying.

Just to be clear, The Church of Jesus Christ teaches Mary is the Mother of God, ever Virgin, and taken into Heaven to be at her Son’s side, as she was in life.

 

[PaulDupre]

rebecca
I think the majority of protestant churches disagree with your highlighted text
The ‘ever virgin’ part is widely disputed as is the Assumption (what it seems you were describing).

The Church of Jesus Christ subsists in the Catholic Church. What Protestants think about our teachings is not relevant.

Paul (Formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Hebrews, as well as all of the other books in the Old and New Testament are accepted as the true history and foundation of true Christianity… (“in much as they are translated correctly”… according to Mormon leadership)
If the Bible, and its translators, are held to that standard… why are Mormon writings and their translators, not held to that standard as well?

1Voice: very good point! I like that. Kathleen & Rebecca nice as always, keep it up!!!

The Bible is the Gold Standard. PERIOD.

Book of Mormon in my estimation is a “fool’s gold” - it looks similar & has fooled many poor, trusting souls; BOM has been critically evaluated over & over for nearly 200 years now & due to it’s lack of authenticity, has gone NO WHERE with Catholic, Orthodox & Christian scholars since it’s fabrication, a piece of Americana to be sure.

No surprise it passes muster with the LDS Church & it’s scholars…

 

[tarboy]

my bad,
i thought we were in the Non-Catholic Religions sub-forum

The Church of Jesus Christ subsists in the Catholic Church. What Protestants think about our teachings is not relevant.

Paul (Formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Janderich]

1Voice: very good point! I like that. Kathleen & Rebecca nice as always, keep it up!!!

The Bible is the Gold Standard. PERIOD.

Book of Mormon in my estimation is a “fool’s gold” - it looks similar & has fooled many poor, trusting souls; BOM has been critically evaluated over & over for nearly 200 years now & due to it’s lack of authenticity, has gone NO WHERE with Catholic, Orthodox & Christian scholars since it’s fabrication, a piece of Americana to be sure.

No surprise it passes muster with the LDS Church & it’s scholars…

I’m not sure I understand 1Voice’s point. The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price are held to the same standard as the Bible. Where is the problem?

As far as the words found in the Book of Mormon, if they were not a translation of ancient writings where did they come from? In almost 200 years no critic has come up with a good explanation. Perhaps because of this, the explanation changes from time to time and no one can really figure it out.

 

[hosemonkey]

As far as the words found in the Book of Mormon, if they were not a translation of ancient writings where did they come from? In almost 200 years no critic has come up with a good explanation. Perhaps because of this, the explanation changes from time to time and no one can really figure it out.

The BOM stems from the fertile imagination of Joseph Smith and liberal plagiarization from the KJV and from contemporary writers of the time. The only thing that I give Joseph Smith credit for was the ability to create whole worlds from nothing and the ability to sell his “scriptures” to gullible rubes . The mormon “church” has spent years and millions to authenticate the BOM and has failed. No way that you can authenticate a work of fiction.

 

[Pork_Roll]

The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price are held to the same standard as the Bible. Where is the problem?

The problem is that those other books you metioned are lies. They were written to decieve people. Joe Smith was an evil dude who decived 1000’s of people in order to have sex with 100’s of women.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Growth and progression are part of the eternities. One never stops progressing. Of course God is omniscient, omnipotent, etc. However, he progresses as his children progress. As God states in the Book of Moses, “This is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.” (Moses 1:39)

We would agree that God has been in existence forever. However, we would also add that all matter has been in existence forever. That includes you and me. There is no beginning and there is no end. We are eternal. As was said in the Sound of Music, “Nothing comes from nothing, Nothing ever could”. It is such simple logic even a song gets it right.

While I realize you do not agree. It is rather straight forward.

You are correct in that I do not agree. The Church teaches that God created everything ex nihilo. God does not change; He is eternally constant. He does not need to experience anything as a human to understand humanity; we were created by Him in His image and so He knows us better than we know ourselves. He knows us down to our very essence, He knows each and every tiny sub-atomic particle that makes us up. He has existed forever but we have not and neither has the matter that comprises us.

About the song? Well, there’s another song from *The Sound of Music *which says that “fa” is a “long, long way to run.” Not so. There is no correlation between logic and songs. Absolutely none.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey him. (Heb. 4:8–9)

I think there’s a mistake in your quote. This is what I found:

For if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God.
[Hebrews 4:8-9, Douay-Rheims]