Mormons and eternal marriage

[Rbt_Southwell]

[quote="rmcmullan, post:49, topic:95505"]
Ah, the scales are beginning to fall from your eyes!  You asked a very good question, it manages to tie together the nature of the Godhead, eternal progression and eternal marriage all in one.  Excellent work! 

**Paul, I'd love to be able to answer that one for you and everyone at the forum, but before I do, think back and try to remember from back in your days as a missionary.  Think back to all the Sunday School and priesthood lessons you received.  I respect your position as a Catholic but you ought to be able to answer this yourself.**

[/quote]

What mcmullan is attempting to write, Paul, is that he hasn’t a clue how to answer your question. “The best defense is a good offense” (Isn’t that a mormon adage from D&C the BYU edition??!!)

Merry Christmas (until the Epiphany) brother Catholic,

Robert

 

[PaulDupre]

What mcmullan is attempting to write, Paul, is that he hasn’t a clue how to answer your question. “The best defense is a good offense” (Isn’t that a mormon adage from D&C the BYU edition??!!)

Merry Christmas (until the Epiphany) brother Catholic,

Robert

Merry Christmas to you too, brother!

Paul

 

[Prince_Hal]

That’s a great point!

Paul

The LDS view of Heaven and “eternal marriage” strikes me as being very “clannish”. We are all family “tribes” in Heaven according to this approach. It is something that not many LDS think about. The LDS approach would surely mean that we would have an inbuilt favouritism towards members of our eternal family. The relationship would obviously need to be different for members of our own family as opposed to members of another family. Our family members would treat the head of the family - me and my wife for example - as the God and Goddess of our “world”. Would this not take away the focus from God, Our Heavenly Father ? Would He not in so many ways become superfluous - too far above us ? I once heard it explained that it was like a Private in the army taking orders from the Sargeant. He was it. The Captain was too far above him. The Sargeant responded to the Captain.

So, the Mormon eternal family descends us into the pettiness of tribalism. And of course, we know that God Our Father in Heaven according to Mormonism has himself a God that he worships above him, and in some way all the adoration that he receives is passed on to the God above him. What about parrallel Gods ? i.e. Gods not directly in your line of superiority, but who might nonetheless be greater Gods than your immediate God ? Do we owe them any worship ? Perhaps they have been Gods longer than our God, or perhaps they have more people worshiping them or have created more worlds and more “glory” ?

Absurd !!

But it all starts with a very human desire of wanting to be with our loved ones forever, and us overlooking the way that God has given us to achieve it - to become one with Him and thereby one with everyone.

God bless,

Hal.

 

[PaulDupre]

It sounds so much like AmWay, I just have to laugh.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Prince_Hal]

…Funny, all Catholics I have met seem to hate women! They hate their wives so much that they would rather see her die an agonizing and miserable death, than to see her have an abortion to save her miserable life! I agree that would be a pretty miserable existence for any man, as well as for his miserable wife!

zerinus

Zerinus, you of course wrote that paragraph to get some people upset and to provoke a fight. It is probably too absurd to answer, but of course I am going to.

1. You do not understand the role of suffering in this life. I agree that my wife would be in agony in a scenario that you would propose. But the nature of marriage when lived would mean that I would suffer with her at each step. And we would turn that suffering over to Christ, and in so doing become part of that suffering that He bore. I do not want it, I will not seek it, but should it come. Now, do not take this point out of context with my next…
2. How much suffering would my wife and I experience if we had that abortion ? What would I say ? "Oh my dear wife, your suffering has now gone, because I let the surgeon enter your uterus with a scalpel and cut the baby into five pieces while it was still alive and remove it piece by piece ? Or, I let the surgeon suck out the brains of the baby to kill it to ease your suffering ? But that is okay, your life is no longer miserable !!

Come on Zerinus. You have to take this stance because not to do so would be to question the authority of the Mormon Prophet.

And where would the eternal family be then ? Would that aborted child still be part of that eternal family when it goes straight to the Celestial kingdom. The conversation might go something like this:

“Hi Dad (God), Hi Mom (Goddess), it’s wonderful to be part of this eternal family. You know it didn’t hurt one bit being sliced into five pieces in Mom’s womb - the place where I thought I would be the most safe. I am glad that you are my God. Just think of the poor so and so’s who got Jesus as their God. He was willing and actually gave His life for them ! I have such a more practical and pragmatic God - who killed me that they might avoid suffering”.

Glad I am leaving Mormonism.

God bless,

Hal.

 

[Prince_Hal]

…

Folks, never believe an apostate. It makes no difference whether they are Catholic apostates or Mormon apostates. They will not teach you the truth.

zerinus

Okay, let me do the Zerinus Twist - a popular dance hereabouts. Mormonism is an heretical religion created based on false teachings that are in opposition to the Church that Christ founded and which has remained with us ever since it was founded by Christ. So, you my dear friend Zerinus are an apostate. Beware forum members by his own mouth believe him not ! However, what you do give so very clearly is an insight into the Mormon psyche and you make clear Mormon teaching. I am genuinely glad that you are here.

God Bless,

Hal.

 

[Prince_Hal]

Marriage was instituted primarily for companionship, not just for having children: “It is not good that the man should be alone . . .” (Genesis 2:18). Having children was a byproduct of that companionship.

zerinus

A “by-product” you say ? I thought that Mormon teaching was that Adam had a choice of either obeying God’s command to be fruitful and replenish the earth or not to partake of the fruit of the tree. The lesser sin (renamed transgression in Mormon doctrine) was to partake of the tree so that they could indeed have children so that God’s plan to give physical bodies to His spirit children could come to pass. So children were not a byproduct of the relationship, it was the essential part.

I must be misunderstanding your point Zerinus, because that is just too obvious.

God Bless,

Hal.

 

[Prince_Hal]

Ah, the scales are beginning to fall from your eyes! You asked a very good question, it manages to tie together the nature of the Godhead, eternal progression and eternal marriage all in one. Excellent work!

Paul, I’d love to be able to answer that one for you and everyone at the forum, but before I do, think back and try to remember from back in your days as a missionary. Think back to all the Sunday School and priesthood lessons you received. I respect your position as a Catholic but you ought to be able to answer this yourself.

Enlighten me rmcmullan. I am thinking of my over 20 years of being a Mormon, of all of the Sunday School and Priesthood lessons, and all of the temple ceremonies and sessions that I attended. I cannot think of the answer, but am willing to admit my forgetfullness or ignorance when you supply the answer.

God Bless,

Hal.

 

[PaulDupre]

Still waiting for rmcmullen to explain to us why the Mormon Heavenly Father needs someone to set a good example for him and inspire him.

I really want to know.

Paul

 

[lukewarm]

Still waiting for rmcmullen to explain to us why the Mormon Heavenly Father needs someone to set a good example for him and inspire him.

I really want to know.

Paul

Because to a Mormon he isn’t “God” there’s always someone further up the ladder he can learn from. And that is really the paradox of the mormon god, if there is admittedly someone further up the ladder, then that is the guy that should be worshipped ad infinitum…

 

[PaulDupre]

Because to a Mormon he isn’t “God” there’s always someone further up the ladder he can learn from. And that is really the paradox of the mormon god, if there is admittedly someone further up the ladder, then that is the guy that should be worshipped ad infinitum…

Yes, I know that. But I want rmcmullen to explain it to us, since he seems to think that it’s a good thing that his god is not the “top god”.

God love you,
Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

And that is really the paradox of the Mormon god, if there is admittedly someone further up the ladder, then that is the guy that should be worshiped ad infinitum…

When I was at BYU there was an ad hoc discussion group that met on Sunday evenings. They were discussing exactly that - the teachings of Joseph Smith and other Mormon prophets indicating that “Heavenly Father” was not the first or highest god - and discussing the possibility of incorporating a worship of the “First Father” into their spiritual lives.

Salt Lake somehow got wind of this, and Boyd K. Packer came down and threatened all of the members with expulsion from BYU and excommunication from the Church if they did not cease the discussion. They ceased, at least publicly.

Paul

 

[lukewarm]

Yes, I know that. But I want rmcmullen to explain it to us, since he seems to think that it’s a good thing that his god is not the “top god”.

God love you,
Paul

I know you know that, I was just piling on…

 

[zerinus]

Glad I am leaving Mormonism.

I am glad too. You are sure taking a long time over it though. What is taking you so long? Why don’t you put yourself out of your misery and do it quickly and get it over with?

zerinus

 

[lukewarm]

I am glad too. You are sure taking a long time over it though. What is taking you so long?

zerinus

I know I’ll regret asking this, but why would you be happy someone (according to you) is damning themselves and leaving Christ’s Church? I’m not sure why that would provide you with enjoyment…

 

[zerinus]

I know I’ll regret asking this, but why would you be happy someone (according to you) is damning themselves and leaving Christ’s Church? I’m not sure why that would provide you with enjoyment…

For the same reason that Jesus told Judas Iscariot: “That thou doest, do quickly” (John 13:27).

zerinus

 

[lukewarm]

For the same reason that Jesus told Judas Iscariot: “That thou doest, do quickly” (John 13:27).

zerinus

That doesn’t make any sense in the context of what you wrote…

The quoted poster said he’s glad he’s glad he’s leaving Mormonism, you said “I am glad too”. If you are a believing Mormon why would you ever be glad to see someone lost? That’s what I’m getting at… Why would that scenario make you happy?

 

[PaulDupre]

For the same reason that Jesus told Judas Iscariot: “That thou doest, do quickly” (John 13:27).

zerinus

So Zerinus likens himself to Jesus now. :nope:

And the Mormons teach that those who once believed in Joseph Smith and then leave the Mormon Church will go to Outer Darkness along with Judas and Cain. I must remember to bring a flashlight.

Hi Ho,
Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

I know you know that, I was just piling on…

 

[zerinus]

So Zerinus likens himself to Jesus now. :nope:

And the Mormons teach that those who once believed in Joseph Smith and then leave the Mormon Church will go to Outer Darkness along with Judas and Cain. I must remember to bring a flashlight.

Hi Ho,
Paul

You will need more than a flash light. I would take a big air conditioning unit as well. I have heard it gets pretty hot down there.

zerinus