Mormons and the 'sacrament'

[leschornmom]

moira:

I know my friend said she hasn’t received the sacrament in a year because she drinks coffee and caffenated soda. This seems a little harsh. And surely not sinful.

The cafeen shouldn’t be a problem. That is left up to our own discression (spelling?), But coffee is specificly mentioned in the Word of Wisdom that we follow…However I certainly can’t picture her bishop asking her not to partake of the sacrament just because she drinks coffee. I KNOW she would not be disfellowshiped for that reason. Perhaps she just doesn’t feel worthy or there is more to her story.
Our bishop’s councels are very private and not spoken of to other people by any of the priesthood we may meet with. If she has had one she may be ashamed even though we’re not supposed to be… She may just be saying that to hide what is really going on.

 

[PaulDupre]

leschornmom:

As a general rule most people, member or non, can partake of our sacrament. We mainly are left up to our own consciences.

When I was LDS (I left in 1986), non-members were not supposed to partake of the sacrament, though I’m sure some did because they did not know. And nobody made a big deal about it if they did.

As I recall, the LDS sacrament is also a renewal of the LDS baptismal covenants. So if one was never baptised LDS, they should not take the sacrament. Does that make sense?

Paul

 

[Sophie]

moira:

I know my friend said she hasn’t received the sacrament in a year because she drinks coffee and caffenated soda. This seems a little harsh. And surely not sinful.

But if your friend asked her “bishop” if she could have an abortion and he prayed about it and God told him “yes”, she could kill her baby, (which Mormonism does allow) that would not be a sin !!! All the while, drinking coffee and caffienated drinks is a sin??? What a hideous lie of the devil !!!

 

[tkdnick]

Here’s a question: Why do you guys tiink it’s important to confess? I mean we ask God for forgiveness for our sins daily.

We go to confession because we are told to do so several times in the Bible. James (I think) tells us to confess our sins to eachother, and in the passages leading up to that statement he is talking about the presbyters (that word is where we get the word priest from). Jesus also tells His apostles that whatever they bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever they loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven. This is a reference to forgiving or retaining sins. And since the Apostles are the predecessors the Bishops (and indirectly the priests), they are given the ability to forgive or retain the sins of the faithful. We also ask God for the forgiveness of our sins daily, but it is important to confess AT LEAST our serious (mortal) sins to a priest. Paul makes the distinction between deadly (mortal) sins and non-deadly (venial) sins and tells us that for non-deadly sins we can pray for eachother, but deadly sins require something more (confession).

 

[tkdnick]

Sophie:

But if your friend asked her “bishop” if she could have an abortion and he prayed about it and God told him “yes”, she could kill her baby, (which Mormonism does allow) that would not be a sin !!! All the while, drinking coffee and caffienated drinks is a sin??? What a hideous lie of the devil !!!

While this may be true, it’s probably not the best way to make your point to the LDS people here.

 

[moira]

leschornmom:

The cafeen shouldn’t be a problem. That is left up to our own discression (spelling?), But coffee is specificly mentioned in the Word of Wisdom that we follow…However I certainly can’t picture her bishop asking her not to partake of the sacrament just because she drinks coffee. I KNOW she would not be disfellowshiped for that reason.
.

 

[moira]

leschornmom:

The cafeen shouldn’t be a problem. That is left up to our own discression (spelling?), But coffee is specificly mentioned in the Word of Wisdom that we follow…However I certainly can’t picture her bishop asking her not to partake of the sacrament just because she drinks coffee.
.

Sorry. That last one was a mistake. Anyway, her bishop did tell her not to partake of the sacrament because of the coffee. And she said that until she is ready to give it up, she can’t partake.

 

[moira]

Sophie:

But if your friend asked her “bishop” if she could have an abortion and he prayed about it and God told him “yes”, she could kill her baby, (which Mormonism does allow) that would not be a sin !!! All the while, drinking coffee and caffienated drinks is a sin??? What a hideous lie of the devil !!!

Actually, this did happen and she was asked if she was sorry for it. She said she told him ‘no’ . He said would you at least not do it again? She said she probably wouldn’t. She had to make this ‘confession’ to be baptized into the church. By the way, she is pro-choice.

 

[tkdnick]

moira:

Actually, this did happen and she was asked if she was sorry for it. She said she told him ‘no’ . He said would you at least not do it again? She said she probably wouldn’t. She had to make this ‘confession’ to be baptized into the church. By the way, she is pro-choice.

That is truly interesting!

 

[moira]

tkdnick:

That is truly interesting!

It is interesting. One time I asked her if she really believed that she would become a god of her own planet. She said she wasn’t so sure about that one. Or about black people being cursed. So she’s just picking and choosing what to believe. Which to me says, ‘why bother belonging if you’re not going to adhere to all the tenents of your faith?’

 

[Chris-WA]

moira:

So she’s just picking and choosing what to believe. Which to me says, ‘why bother belonging if you’re not going to adhere to all the tenents of your faith?’

True, and sadly very true for the majority of Catholics. I guess that’s what this website is for.

 

[leschornmom]

moira:

Actually, this did happen and she was asked if she was sorry for it. She said she told him ‘no’ . He said would you at least not do it again? She said she probably wouldn’t. She had to make this ‘confession’ to be baptized into the church. By the way, she is pro-choice.

This breaks my heart. We believe that we are forgiven of ALL sins when we are baptized…However, that requires a TRUE conversion and repentence. It doesn’t sound like she was sorry for her choice. We believe that the the process of repentence is this…ABCD Admit the sin, Be sorry, Correct the mistake, Don’t do it again…Thats not deep doctorine it’s just something we teach out youth.

Our church is not a pro-choice religion…If a young girl just goes out and gets pregnant we she is encurraged to 1)marry the father, 2)give it up for adoption, or 3)in rare cases (depending on her age and support at home) she may be advised to raise the child on her own. If this woman just simply chose to have an abortion it would be grounds for excommunication!.. Now the difficult part of the equation…I struggle with this one! In the case of Rape or Insest (spelling?) the church would NEVER RECOMEND an abortion. However, It does not repremand women in this situation. If Bishops are asked for advise they are supposed to ask the victim to pray about it and put the mother-to-be in touch with LDS services. LDS servises trys to make sure the mother gets the counceling she needs and the baby gets the home he/she needs. Sadly this is not always the course that is chosen and the Church’e official standing is that the sin is added to the head of the attacker. If there is any fault of the woman, will be for God to decide in the after life.Now I may have just opened a whole can of worm here and I certainly didn’t mean to do that. If you have oppinions or questions please feel free to ask (or tell me on the thread I’m about to start on this subject. “What if…” I think Ill start it in the Spiritual forum. I dont want to take over Moira’s thread.
I got off the subject and I am sorry for that. I hope that helps you understand that portion of our church a little better. As for your friend, did she go through the proper proceedure of classes and what not before she was baptised. because it doesn’t sound to me like she truly understands the covenants she made.
PaulDupre,
The sacrament is a way of renewing our baptismal covenants. My understanding…until tonight when I talked tomy branch president, was that there was no rule against non-members partaking of it . My BP said that it is really only for he members but that members don’t usually make a big deal out of it like you said.
He also told me that if a member came to him and told him that he/she was drinking coffee that they would be denied a temple recomend and that they would also be asked not to partake of the sacrament.(as is true with any WOW issue) I guess I didn’t know this because I have never been in this situation…**I am truly sorry for mis informing this thread. ** I know it is not my first mistake and I’m sure it will not be my last.

 

[Chris-WA]

leschornmom, did you ever get around to reading John Chapter 6? If so, did you ask the following question–Why did many of Jesus’ followers leave him after he gave the bread of life discourse?

 

[leschornmom]

Chris-WA:

leschornmom, did you ever get around to reading John Chapter 6? If so, did you ask the following question–Why did many of Jesus’ followers leave him after he gave the bread of life discourse?

Chris, I am so sorry I completely forgot to read that…I was just checking some posts before I started lunch. I will read it while my boys are napping and get back to you at some point tonight

 

[StubbleSpark]

I just wanted say that when I said “I don’t know why some Catholics are so timid about confession.” I was not trying to put people down for not going more often but to convey my total enthusiasm for confession (guitar riff: diddly deeeernn!) and other related practices like daily examination of conscience. I know firsthand what a grinding experience confessing the same stupid sins over and over again has on the soul but I have embraced that spirit of contrition as a means for getting closer to God.

Sorry if I offended anyone!

 

[Sophie]

leschornmom:

,
Our church is not a pro-choice religion…In the case of Rape or Insest (spelling?) the church would NEVER RECOMEND an abortion.

The mormon organization, on occassions, does recommend abortions. As written in their “Gospel Principals”, 1992, 251, by the President Hinckley and apostle Benson, “There is seldom any excuse for abortion. The only exceptions are when: l. Pregnancy has resulted from rape or incest. 2. The life or health of the mother is in jeopardy in the opinion of competent medical authority or 3. The fetus is known, by competent medical authority, to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.” This more lenient, liberal view of abortion the LDS now take, was changed from a more strict view held before 1992. One more change in the ever changing world or mormonism. The mormon organization calls itself pro-life, but allows many exceptions for it’s members to obtain abortions.

As a formor mormon on this site on another thread stated when he was in the mormons he knew of 4 women in his ward that were allowed to have abortions just because they didn’t want their babies!

As for me, I’ll hold fast to God’s Holy Catholic Church which has stood firmly against abortion and for God’s precious gift of life for 2004 years.

 

[Sophie]

leschornmom:

. We believe that the the process of repentence is this…ABCD Admit the sin, Be sorry, Correct the mistake, Don’t do it again…Thats not deep doctorine it’s just something we teach out youth.

Sorry, but to Jesus this was deep doctrine. Jesus had authority to forgive sins, and He entrusted it to the apostles, the first leaders of His Church, “When you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven: when you hold them bound they are held bound.” (John 20:23). Thus, Jesus’ sacrament of confession, instituted by Christ Himself.

 

[Katholikos]

leschornmom:

The cafeen shouldn’t be a problem. That is left up to our own discression (spelling?), But coffee is specificly mentioned in the Word of Wisdom that we follow.

The “Word of Wisdom” prohibits wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks. Coffee is not mentioned. Source: Doctrine & Covenants, Section 89, verses 1-9.

v. 9 “And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.”

So, any “hot drink” is prohibited, not just coffee.

Doctrine & Covenants 89:
"(v. 18) And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in the navel and marrow to their bones; (v. 19) And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures; (v. 20) And shall “run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint, (v.21) And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.”

The Doctrine & Covenants is one of the four Mormon scriptures, along with the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the KJV as “corrected” by Joseph Smith.

JMJ Jay

 

[Katholikos]

moira:

It is interesting. One time I asked her if she really believed that she would become a god of her own planet. She said she wasn’t so sure about that one. Or about black people being cursed. So she’s just picking and choosing what to believe. Which to me says, ‘why bother belonging if you’re not going to adhere to all the tenents of your faith?’

Note for those who may not know: A Mormon woman can become a goddess only if she is married to a Mormon male and has been “sealed” and “married for eternity” in the temple. And her husband must then be “exalted” after death, a privilege granted only to males who strictly obey the rules (such as tithing, obeying the Word of Wisdom, being baptized for dead relatives, etc., Gospel Principles, 1988, P. 291). Then, she can be with him when he becomes a god, have perpetual sex, and bear his “spirit-children” forever to populate his planet. Unmarried women are “unclaimed blessings.”

JMJ Jay

 

[PaulDupre]

The mormon organization, on occassions, does recommend abortions. As written in their “Gospel Principals”, 1992, 251, by the President Hinckley and apostle Benson, “There is seldom any excuse for abortion. The only exceptions are when: l. Pregnancy has resulted from rape or incest. 2. The life or health of the mother is in jeopardy in the opinion of competent medical authority or 3. The fetus is known, by competent medical authority, to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.” …
As a former mormon on this site on another thread stated when he was in the mormons he knew of 4 women in his ward that were allowed to have abortions just because they didn’t want their babies!

I am that former Mormon. Here’s the post you are referring to:

The “health of the mother” criteria for Mormon abortions also includes psychological well-being. Therefore, if a woman feels that she will undergo some mental stress or anxiety about having a baby to care for (and who doesn’t) then her bishop is likely to approve an abortion, especially if the woman is young and unmarried. When I was LDS, several women I home-taught in 4 different wards had abortions with the consent of their bishops. There was nothing unusual about their pregnancies, they just didn’t want them, and that was “mental stress” enough for the bishop to give the thumbs up to kill the baby.

I also do not understand the idea that if one or both of the parents sinned (rape or incest), then the baby should be killed. What sense does that make? Should we kill the baby if the father robs a liquor store? Someone please explain this one to me.
Paul

BTW, I never got an answer to my question about the exception for rape or incest.
Paul