Mormons baptize the popes

[lukewarm]

I used to be lds but am now catholic. I do not understand why everyone gets all bent out of shape about this. They aren’t hurting anyone. They are conducting a ritual that has no effect on anyones soul. They are just waisting their own time and efforts although the geneology library is a nice resource. The only way I could see being upset is if you actually believed their ceremonies had effect in that case you might as well join the lds church.

I agree it’s a completely pointless activity, I don’t know why people get bent out of shape either.

 

[porkscratchings]

I did say “at one time”. The people who were praying for me are people who I love and care for, so, I figured them praying for me was an act of love. I didn’t believe prayer was doing anything but making them feel better, or in some cases feel like they were doing something when nothing could be done. And I was ok with the people I love feeling better.

Now, when I pray for people, I don’t think that I am trying to force something onto them. Just another way for me to show love. Also, I rarely tell people I pray for them. Prayer is just too new and different for me and honestly it sort of freaks me out.

It’s one thing to be prayed for by people who u know but something entirely different to have someone try to get u to convert, fail, and then say they’ll pray for u. It’s freaky and a attempt at influence. I have no doubt that these DO NOT care for me - if they did, they would respect my beliefs and leave me alone.

Now i’ve got a way of getting rid of these people - when they tell me they’re praying for me, i tell them I’d think of them when I stick a pin in my voodoo doll.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It’s one thing to be prayed for by people who u know but something entirely different to have someone try to get u to convert, fail, and then say they’ll pray for u. It’s freaky and a attempt at influence. I have no doubt that these DO NOT care for me - if they did, they would respect my beliefs and leave me alone.

Now i’ve got a way of getting rid of these people - when they tell me they’re praying for me, i tell them I’d think of them when I stick a pin in my voodoo doll.

I don’t think that anyone is trying to curse anyone else when they pray for them!

:hug3:

 

[Tmaque]

The Mormons will do a posthumous baptism on anyone as long as they get a request for it. Ever wonder why they keep that giant genealogical database? It’s to make the posthumous baptism process easier.

While I don’t necessarily believe their baptisms are valid, it still infuriates me that they have the arrogance to do this anyway.

Why does it infuriate you? They believe they are doing God’s will. I don’t understand your discomfort with their failed attempts at posthumous baptism.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Why does it infuriate you? They believe they are doing God’s will. I don’t understand your discomfort with their failed attempts at posthumous baptism.

I’m with you on this. Even though the LDS are in error and miss the mark in final outcome, their intentions are noble; at least they do care enough to try to attempt something they feel is necessary to save those they think are lost.

Too many people in this world are completely apathetic to care at all about what happens to anyone besides themselves, we can’t say that about them.

A for effort, F for the final product.

 

[swariffin]

while googling pope benedict and genealogy i found this blog entry

and then reading further…

Dear Chewchoo,

The way I read your quotations is that the Pope when he was baptised was not present during the baptism. By the Roman Catholic Church standard, anybody cannot be baptised in his/her absence. I don’t see any problem with that. Gee, by that standard, if somebody applies a baptism on behalf of me, without having my consent, I still could be baptized under the baptism of mormonism and becoming a mormon? am I missing something?

 

[chewchoo]

Dear Chewchoo,

The way I read your quotations is that the Pope when he was baptised was not present during the baptism. By the Roman Catholic Church standard, anybody cannot be baptised in his/her absence. I don’t see any problem with that. Gee, by that standard, if somebody applies a baptism on behalf of me, without having my consent, I still could be baptized under the baptism of mormonism and becoming a mormon? am I missing something?

i was just relaying information i found on the web. the quotations are obviously not my comments… i understand, tho i am not totally comfortable with, mormon’s baptizing ancestors who are not mormons. but it came as a surprise to me that they would baptize the pope just because he is the leader of the “abominable church”.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Dear Chewchoo,

The way I read your quotations is that the Pope when he was baptised was not present during the baptism. By the Roman Catholic Church standard, anybody cannot be baptised in his/her absence. I don’t see any problem with that. Gee, by that standard, if somebody applies a baptism on behalf of me, without having my consent, I still could be baptized under the baptism of mormonism and becoming a mormon? am I missing something?

I think the point of the thread is that posthumous baptism is an interesting fact about the Mormon faith, something most of us don’t know about, and being Catholic, it was further interesting to know that they particularly single out the popes in this rite.

 

[paarsurrey]

Nephi saw this “church (Cahtolic) which is most abominable above all other churches” in vision. He “saw the devil that he was the foundation of it” and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization.

it still infuriates me that they have the arrogance to do this anyway.

Hi

What is your (name removed by moderator)ut on the passage quoted by me above from the OP?

I think instead of quarelling with one another, both the churches Catholics and Mormons should work sincerely for unity towards United Christendom by uniting on truth; they (the mormons) are not Muslims so what is the hindrence. In heart of hearts both the denominations include each other while counting heads of total Christians in the world.

If that could be done ; why not get united once for all.

Any thoughts

Thanks

 

[Harsalter]

Yeah, in my atheist years, there was a time when people telling me they were praying for me would **** me off. I didn’t ask them to, and I knew they were praying for things that I DIDN’T WANT. It felt like they were trying to force something on me.

Well in a way they were, praying to get God to change your heart and make you see and/or do things differently.

I was Mormon once also after realizing that the so. baptist faith could not possibly be correct, until I realized that the mormon missionaries all but lied to me about certain doctrine. Mormons aren’t even Christians as they reject basic Christian doctrine. They are good and fine people, but they live in Alice and Wonderland with some of those far out beliefs.

 

[talter]

Being married to a Mormon who wants to “necro-dunk” (love the euphimism) my recently deceased highly-devout catholic relatives I think I have a unique perspective. I was at least asked if it could be done for them (which I am very grateful for and more than many other get) and I basically said no. Not because I believe it has any effect, being Catholic and moderately well catechized (Thanks Sister Rose-Mary :nun2 I know it doesn’t. Nor do I have a problem with the LDS praying for my relatives again I don’t think it will do much good given their heretical views and all. It’s because of the fact it will be recorded in their church records and made public on their genealogy website that I have a problem with it. It’s kind of like a form of libel. My family were not nor have ever been associated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints[sup]TM[/sup]. And having it listed on their “vital records” is not something I want for them. 100 years from now (if their website still exists) I do not want some distant cousin looking up my family’s information and seeing that they were baptized as Mormon. Granted an astute reader would see that the date shows they were baptized posthumously but then what does it say about me or any other relative in that we “allowed” it to happen. If they want to do baptisms for the dead then go right ahead just don’t publish that information for all to see or at the very least annotate it so that it shows that the baptism occurred without their consent and who it was that submitted the name for “work” to be done.

 

[chewchoo]

Being married to a Mormon who wants to “necro-dunk” (love the euphimism) my recently deceased highly-devout catholic relatives I think I have a unique perspective. I was at least asked if it could be done for them (which I am very grateful for and more than many other get) and I basically said no. Not because I believe it has any effect, being Catholic and moderately well catechized (Thanks Sister Rose-Mary :nun2 I know it doesn’t. Nor do I have a problem with the LDS praying for my relatives again I don’t think it will do much good given their heretical views and all. It’s because of the fact it will be recorded in their church records and made public on their genealogy website that I have a problem with it. It’s kind of like a form of libel. My family were not nor have ever been associated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints[sup]TM[/sup]. And having it listed on their “vital records” is not something I want for them. 100 years from now (if their website still exists) I do not want some distant cousin looking up my family’s information and seeing that they were baptized as Mormon. Granted an astute reader would see that the date shows they were baptized posthumously but then what does it say about me or any other relative in that we “allowed” it to happen. If they want to do baptisms for the dead then go right ahead just don’t publish that information for all to see or at the very least annotate it so that it shows that the baptism occurred without their consent and who it was that submitted the name for “work” to be done.

thank you for your first-hand information. i spent many hours at a family history center looking at microfilms and looking at their web site. i thankfully haven’t found any of my family members on their website, so i guess they haven’t been “necro-dunked”. i didn’t know that appearing on the website went hand-in-hand with the mormon baptism.

the referenced article above says that the popes names have been removed from the database. is there anyway that a non “famous” person can have their family names removed from the database?

 

[ibkc]

Why does it infuriate you? They believe they are doing God’s will. I don’t understand your discomfort with their failed attempts at posthumous baptism.

Lots of people believe they are doing God’s will, for better or for worse. In fact there are no end to the injustices done by people to each other in the name of doing God’s will.

In the case of the “necro-dunking” I think it is more about them being able to pad their baptism stats rather than any real concern for the souls of the dead.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I should point out that I believe the term “necro-dunk” describes very well what mormons are doing, however, mormons generally view it as a derogatory, “anti-mormon” term.

(JSYK)

 

[talter]

As far as I know there is no way for the average person to get a name removed from the list.

Also I need to be a little clearer. The LDS church maintains not just records of those that are baptized posthumously but as many genealogical records as possible (the FamilySearch website which is run by the LDS church can search through US Social Security Death Records, US Census records, etc). To my understanding (which by the way is limited so take this with a grain of salt or a salt lick if you prefer) only the information within the International Genealogical Index (IGL) have names of those who have been been baptized by the church. I have been told by a member that the only names in the IGL have had ordinances (read baptism for the dead and sealings) so if a name shows up under the IGL then that person has been proxy baptized or sealed to someone.

 

[talter]

Here’s a good link with info on the IGI. It even has an example of baptism after death, well it doesn’t actually come out and say it was after death you just have to do the math. Unless he was 155 years old at the time of his baptism it was posthumously done.

livgenmi.com/fhcigi.htm

I also noticed for some reason in my above post I typed IGL every time I meant to type IGI. That was odd.

 

[Zooey]

I’m with you on this. Even though the LDS are in error and miss the mark in final outcome, their intentions are noble; at least they do care enough to try to attempt something they feel is necessary to save those they think are lost.

Too many people in this world are completely apathetic to care at all about what happens to anyone besides themselves, we can’t say that about them.

A for effort, F for the final product.

I agree totally here.
The only thing I have found (my only personal experience) that upsets me, is that in order to find some family graves, my one cousin had to agree that the folks found by Mormons would be baptized Mormon. (I really, really like "necro-dunk. I’m sorry, to anyone who is offended, but it makes me laugh).
I think that’s blackmail, and I think that’s wrong.

Hi

I think instead of quarelling with one another, both the churches Catholics and Mormons should work sincerely for unity towards United Christendom by uniting on truth; they (the mormons) are not Muslims so what is the hindrence. In heart of hearts both the denominations include each other while counting heads of total Christians in the world.

If that could be done ; why not get united once for all.

Any thoughts

Yeah…That’s the problem, you see. Mormons are NOT Christians.
Also, they don’t recognize Catholics (or Protestants, or anybody but themselves) as Christian.
Look at it like this: How would you like it, if I came over there, gathered up the names of all your ancestors, and had them “converted” to being Methodists?
You’d be upset at my nerve…and rightly so.

 

[chewchoo]

As far as I know there is no way for the average person to get a name removed from the list.

Also I need to be a little clearer. The LDS church maintains not just records of those that are baptized posthumously but as many genealogical records as possible (the FamilySearch website which is run by the LDS church can search through US Social Security Death Records, US Census records, etc). To my understanding (which by the way is limited so take this with a grain of salt or a salt lick if you prefer) only the information within the International Genealogical Index (IGL) have names of those who have been been baptized by the church. I have been told by a member that the only names in the IGL have had ordinances (read baptism for the dead and sealings) so if a name shows up under the IGL then that person has been proxy baptized or sealed to someone.

that’s the way i understood you, thanks.
i have looked at many of the copied church records and have had success finding family members

 

[Harsalter]

So Mormons don’t like the term “necro-dunk”, eh. Reminds me of something else a tad more severe.

My son who served as a army ranger and served as a sniper in Afghanistan and Iraq told me that they advertised to the insurgents that they dipped their bullets in pork spam. So when they shot a Muslim, the insurgent thought they were going to hell from being unclean from the pork on the bullet. A little psychological warfare there.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So Mormons don’t like the term “necro-dunk”, eh. Reminds me of something else a tad more severe.

My son who served as a army ranger and served as a sniper in Afghanistan and Iraq told me that they advertised to the insurgents that they dipped their bullets in pork spam. So when they shot a Muslim, the insurgent thought they were going to hell from being unclean from the pork on the bullet. A little psychological warfare there.

And a lot of superstition.