Mormons baptizing our Pope posthumously

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Seeks God said:
110 years? yeah people might forget about the whole issue then, huh?
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The idea is that after that long, the person in question probably has so many relatives, it would probably be fruitless to try to track down who is the “next of kin.” Also, after that long, anyone who was truly close to the person would likely be dead, too.

Can’t you understand that we don’t care whether you think the practice is arrogant or wrong, but that we still care enough about your feelings to wait to either get permission from the next of kin or wait until anyone close to the person would be dead, as well?

BDawg
 
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BDawg:
Hi Seeks God,

How is calling on 1.1 billion Catholics to take public action against the Mormons for performing some harmless religious rite “defending their faith”? To me it seems more like “getting offended over nothing and using it as an excuse to encourage religious persecution.”

I live in Utah, too, and I wish you would watch one of our General Conferences on TV. EVERY SINGLE TIME, one of our Apostles gets up there and pleads with LDS people in the Utah area to be more tolerant, kind, accepting, and non-self-righteous toward people of other faiths. For the most part, I think we try, although some people who have lived here all their lives are sort of oblivious to the fact that any other religions exist around here. And then, frankly, we also have a few total jerks who belong to our church. I’ve noticed that we aren’t alone in harboring a few oblivious people and jerks, though. Wouldn’t you agree?

BDawg
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I agree with you on the tolerance issue. JP II was very good about teaching love for all people. It is our foundational beliefs to love all people as Jesus loved us. You might have to excuse the human side of Catholics.
And I have watched some of the General Con ferences on TV. Heck I can turn on KSL and here something about Mr. Hinkley…it doesn’t suprise me that Utah is sometimes called a Theocracy.
 
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BDawg:
The idea is that after that long, the person in question probably has so many relatives, it would probably be fruitless to try to track down who is the “next of kin.” Also, after that long, anyone who was truly close to the person would likely be dead, too.

Can’t you understand that we don’t care whether you think the practice is arrogant or wrong, but that we still care enough about your feelings to wait to either get permission from the next of kin or wait until anyone close to the person would be dead, as well?

BDawg
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I know exactly what the reason is…lol…I was teasing and making fun of it. Please pardon my sense of humor and don’t worry I won’t get offended if you tease me about catholicism either…
 
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blueadept:
I also view this practice as a sign of disrespect for those not LDS.
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Hi Blue,

I just don’t get that. To my mind it is a sign of respect for other faiths. True, we don’t accept the authority of others to perform religious rites, but we also recognize that God has a hand in other religions, as well. In the Book of Mormon, Alma 29, the prophet Alma is saying how he wishes he were an angel so he could preach the Gospel to everyone. Then he says that he sins in his wish. Why?

“For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true.” (Alma 29:8)

To us, it all just means that God is watching over everyone, and he will give everyone a fair chance to be saved. It also means that God has given us a chance to be part of his saving work, and that makes us feel happy. If you would try to understand it in the spirit it is meant, I think the whole thing would not upset you so much.

BDawg
 
Maybe Mormons and Catholics could join forces to fight evil in the world. You guys get along so famously! 😃
 
Bdawg, Thank you for clarifying why Mormons do this practice. I had known of it, but didn’t know why you did it. I assumed that it was done with charitable intentions, as you explained it is.

While we disagree on this practice and many others, I respect that the Mormon church encourages large families. When traveling with all six of our children we’ve been mistaken for Mormons. In fact, when I see large families, I am tempted to approach the mom and ask “Catholic or Mormon?”🙂
 
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gardenswithkids:
Bdawg, Thank you for clarifying why Mormons do this practice. I had known of it, but didn’t know why you did it. I assumed that it was done with charitable intentions, as you explained it is.

While we disagree on this practice and many others, I respect that the Mormon church encourages large families. When traveling with all six of our children we’ve been mistaken for Mormons. In fact, when I see large families, I am tempted to approach the mom and ask “Catholic or Mormon?”🙂
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Hee hee. My parents have 8 kids (including a foster child), 38 grandkids, and probably about 20-ish great-grandkids. When my oldest sister (who also has six kids) used to go buy milk at the grocery store in Connecticut, people thought she was some kind of nut.

Back to the topic, Mormons see rites for dead relatives as part and parcel of our emphasis on families. The idea is that in the eternities we will all be linked together as one huge family chain.

BDawg
 
“Catholic or Mormon?”:)]

I enjoy the fact that I can respond both to this. 😃

BDawg, I’m not really upset by the fact that the LDS church does the practice of ‘Baptisms for the Dead’. I think it’s just a matter of ethics of others beliefs. I am going to attend with my wife to functions at her church that doesn’t bother me. Sacrament meetings (not testimonial Sundays), bible study (not D&C or Church History), and Stake and General Conference functions, ward get togethers and having missionaries, home and visiting teachers periodically over at the house. I find these opportunities to appreciate my wife’s point of view on these issues. I question my wife’s willingness to learn my faith as well and will probably continue my opinion until I can fully participate in my own church. But I’m willing to do whatever is necessary so that we both can practice our own faiths.
 
Hi Blue,

I hope your wife changes her mind about learning more about your faith. It’s hard to think clearly about your own faith unless you have something to compare it to. Also, how can you talk to others about your own faith if you don’t understand where they are coming from?

B
 
You have to have permission of the next of kin, or the person has to have died more than about 110 years ago.
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I taught geneaology in my ward at BYU.

That standard was established because the US Census department will not release census records to the Mormon church until after 110 years to protect the people’s right to privacy; no?

It’s not necessarily a sign of respect, it’s just recognizing the limitations forced on the Mormon church by the government. I suspect that if such a “policy” wasn’t in place, the church would never get the census records. As it is, more recent records are made available by the government at various government libraries, a couple of decades before it’s “released” the the Geneaology Society if memory serves.

I think this is why the Mormon church can periodically face such fierce opposition to filming census/church records in other countries. The names on the film go into the rotation for ordinance work. I believe the standard arrangement is the government/parish gets a copy of the imaging and the Mormon church gets one “to preserve.” I’m not clear that the usage of the names is ever fully disclosed to the entities.
 
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BDawg:
Hi Blue,

Also, how can you talk to others about your own faith if you don’t understand where they are coming from?

B
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I appreciate your viewpoint, that doesn’t mean I have to accept them. Like I’ve said in other posts, I believe it all depends on whose “authority” you wish to accept. As far as what each faith practices, to each their own. In my unique world, I get to combine both our faiths under the same roof. It’s actually been easier than some might think. I know my wife thinks some of my Catholic practices are nuts and doesn’t accept them, but we are both Christians and are continuing to learn how to practice our own faiths.
 
BDawg –

Thank you for clearing that up. I didn’t understand the concept before…obviously…
 
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TomK:
I taught geneaology in my ward at BYU.

That standard was established because the US Census department will not release census records to the Mormon church until after 110 years to protect the people’s right to privacy; no?

It’s not necessarily a sign of respect, it’s just recognizing the limitations forced on the Mormon church by the government.
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Tom,

You and I both know that just because you got asked to teach geneaology in your ward at BYU doesn’t mean you know much about it. My wife got asked to teach Old Testament in her ward at BYU, when she hadn’t even read it. She had joined the LDS Church 18 months before that, and wasn’t even religious before then. The fact is that they don’t limit this rule to records gotten from the U.S. Census, so any limitations on Census records would seem to be a moot point. And if it isn’t a sign of respect, why bother having people ask the next of kin for permission when the person died less than 110 years ago? We really don’t need permission, legally.

BDawg
 
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blueadept:
I appreciate your viewpoint, that doesn’t mean I have to accept them. Like I’ve said in other posts, I believe it all depends on whose “authority” you wish to accept. As far as what each faith practices, to each their own. In my unique world, I get to combine both our faiths under the same roof. It’s actually been easier than some might think. I know my wife thinks some of my Catholic practices are nuts and doesn’t accept them, but we are both Christians and are continuing to learn how to practice our own faiths.
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I agree completely. I was giving you the “atta boy” about wishing your wife would try to understand your faith as hard as you are trying to understand hers. I hope she does.

BDawg
 
those wacky mormons are at it again. only in america could a goofy religion like that be dreamed up. you have to give to joe smith, he created one long lasting crazy religion.
 
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BDawg:
Ex-mo,

You really are a piece of work. I understand that you likely have an axe to grind with your former religion–most people who leave one religion for another do.
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Hey BDawg,
It wasn’t ex-mormon posting that stuff…it was ex-mormon’s wife. She says so in both posts.
 
BJ Colbert:
I had the same impression as Bdawg, that you were really mad about the LDS doing posthumous baptisms. If you don’t believe in it why in the world would it offend you? Why would some of you fly off the handle and want to send 1.5 Billion Catholics on the attack against the Mormon church. If that isn’t hatred I don’t know what is.
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Hey BJ,
Hope all is going well for you and your husband!

Thanks for being generous with our numbers 😃 We’re not quite 1.5 billion. We’re more like 1.2 billion.

Mrs. ex-mormon (if I may call her that) wasn’t calling anyone to attack the LDS church. She was calling on Catholics to stand up for what they believe. If the Catholic Church did something to or for an LDS that was decidely against LDS practice, I would expect the people of the LDS church to be offended and expect them to say something…same thing here. It has nothing to do with hatred, it has to do with standing up for what we believe in. I personally am somewhat offended at the though that my LDS friends might try to do a proxy baptism for me after I die (which I am sure will either happen or be attempted since my best friends are LDS). It shows a significant disrespect for my religious beliefs.

While I personally do not share the same “anger” at what is supposedly happening with the proxy baptism of our Pope, the idea is somewhat offensive to me.

LDS and Catholics clearly have differing religious beliefs. And while I do not agree with the LDS belief system, I do try to show those I come contact with respect for their beliefs, it would be charitable for the same to be returned.

Having said all this…I have no idea whether the subject of the thread is true or not, and I will reserve my judgement for after some official news comes through one way or the other. I do, however, hope that the LDS church is not trying to do a proxy baptism for JP II.
 
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BDawg:
When my oldest sister (who also has six kids) used to go buy milk at the grocery store in Connecticut, people thought she was some kind of nut.
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My friends have six kids and they buy all their milk at Costco…12 gallons at a time!!!
 
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Milliardo:
We should be outraged about this. Some might think it’s minor, but how would you feel if you’re “baptized” posthumously by some Mormon?
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It doesn’t matter because I am already baptized by the Catholic Church. Its not like they could steel my soul from God by doing this.

That said, it is a heresy and a sacrelige to rebaptize someone.
 
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