Mormons, Bible reference for the baptism of the dead

[flyonthewall]

There is no free will if there is not a choice.
Adam and Eve were created in innocence, free from sin and perfected, just as you have pointed out. However, if all they ever had to choose was good, then they had no free will.
And if they are to be condemned for using the gift that God has given them, that makes no sense.
I don’t think I saw a response as to why God said:

Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

until AFTER they partook of the fruit and their eyes were open.
If I am understanding you correctly, the reason why they “become as one of us”, was to know evil. Knowing good only was not enough to “become as one of us”.

The good part about making a mistake, or sinning, is that you can learn from it and become a better person. True, it is always better to not make the mistake in the first place, but we are human and we are goint to make mistakes. God understood that and that is why Christ was chosen/annointed from the foundation of the world to be our Redeemer.

Let me ask you this, how many times can you tell your child the stove is hot and have him say he understands, but it is not until he actually touches the hot stove that the term “hot” is really understood?
Would you then condemn the child for touching the hot stove? or would you care for him and take steps to help the hurt go away? Do you think he is better off with a real understanding of what “hot” means, and to know to avoid it in the future?

 

[catholic-rcia]

There is no free will if there is not a choice.
Adam and Eve were created in innocence, free from sin and perfected, just as you have pointed out. However, if all they ever had to choose was good, then they had no free will.
And if they are to be condemned for using the gift that God has given them, that makes no sense.
I don’t think I saw a response as to why God said:
until AFTER they partook of the fruit and their eyes were open.
If I am understanding you correctly, the reason why they “become as one of us”, was to know evil. Knowing good only was not enough to “become as one of us”.

The good part about making a mistake, or sinning, is that you can learn from it and become a better person. True, it is always better to not make the mistake in the first place, but we are human and we are goint to make mistakes. God understood that and that is why Christ was chosen/annointed from the foundation of the world to be our Redeemer.

Let me ask you this, how many times can you tell your child the stove is hot and have him say he understands, but it is not until he actually touches the hot stove that the term “hot” is really understood?
Would you then condemn the child for touching the hot stove? or would you care for him and take steps to help the hurt go away? Do you think he is better off with a real understanding of what “hot” means, and to know to avoid it in the future?

Some food for thought
In Genesis 2-3, God created man in His Image and established our first parents - Adam and Eve - in His friendship. This friendship included Sanctifying grace - the gift of holiness and eternal life. Adam, however, freely chose to live apart from God by trusting instead in the knowledge of good and evil - wanting to be like gods. Adam rejected God through disobedience and lost this friendship for himself and us. This loss is original sin…author unknown

Yes there is a learning curve for each of us. Its to get back to the Grace of God. look at what our God has to go through to get us back. we have the Crucifix front and center to remind us of what He has done, How much we are loved by Him. It is my beleif that this all happens because we have to learn that we can never be anyhting apart from His Grace. It is Him who fills us and gives us life. Apart from Jesus we would be nothing. Not nothing as if it is something…I mean Nothing. Its all about Jesus, not about us. He is the great gift to creation. Room for Him alone. What we receive is life becuase of Him and we get to share in what He has always had with the Father. We cannot have this without Jesus. Satan wants us to beleive otherwise.

In Christ
Rich

 

[Esdra]

There is no free will if there is not a choice.
Adam and Eve were created in innocence, free from sin and perfected, just as you have pointed out. However, if all they ever had to choose was good, then they had no free will.
And if they are to be condemned for using the gift that God has given them, that makes no sense.
I don’t think I saw a response as to why God said:
until AFTER they partook of the fruit and their eyes were open.
If I am understanding you correctly, the reason why they “become as one of us”, was to know evil. Knowing good only was not enough to “become as one of us”.

The good part about making a mistake, or sinning, is that you can learn from it and become a better person. True, it is always better to not make the mistake in the first place, but we are human and we are goint to make mistakes. God understood that and that is why Christ was chosen/annointed from the foundation of the world to be our Redeemer.

Let me ask you this, how many times can you tell your child the stove is hot and have him say he understands, but it is not until he actually touches the hot stove that the term “hot” is really understood?
Would you then condemn the child for touching the hot stove? or would you care for him and take steps to help the hurt go away? Do you think he is better off with a real understanding of what “hot” means, and to know to avoid it in the future?

Hi

first of all thank you for all your responses to my thread. - 'Though we got a little bit off topic here - nevertheless it’s intersting to read.

Now to your post flyonthewall:
I am astonished to say that: but this is a good post - really Christian. Having in mind that most of the posters here don’t even consider Mormons as Christians…
Especially the bold part is good and the parable beneath.

Yeah, God’s plans are really wonderful. He has sent his only son that he may bear all our sins and take them to the cross that we are again able to have a friendship with god through Christ Jesus. Jesus tor apart our promissory note which we have towards god. Halleluja!
He is truly our loving father in heaven!

But I also (like the catholics posting here) can’t agree to the idea that heaven consists of three parts (celestial, terrestrial and telestial glory) and I have to contradict vehemently that we become gods in the celestial glory. - And because baptism for the dead is based upon this belief (D&C 76) - I also can’t believe that Jesus ministers the dead in soul prison and also not in baptism for the dead.
The idea of becoming god after death is btw typical free-mansory (compare the fiction book by Dan Brown “The Lost Symbol”!)

However, I also contradict with the Catholic idea of purgatory…
There is only ONE heaven and hell.
And at the latter-day we are judged upon our lives here on earth.
So I guess that after death our soul comes to heaven and is in “Standby Mode” to await the judgement day.
However, I am not sure if the sentence above is theologically correct. I am not a theologist…

In Christ,
Esdra

 

[zaffiroborant]

Sure the garden would have been “paradisical”, but it would have also been stagnated.

Living where God walks in the cool of the day would be a stagnantlife I don’t know which is more flabbergasting this, or the idea that one couldn’t gain wisdom from direct two way conversation with God.

 

[GTNJNightingale]

God Gives us a chance here on earth to accept his teachings …for those who didnt accept it or maybe didnt know about it IT IS FOR GOD TO INFORM THEM AFTER DEATH. Mormons can baptize for the dead all they want…but never will they do so with any kind of authority! Mormons try to do everything on there own…by there own works …like this baptism for the dead …to me it seems kinda creepy. and nothing that comes from God is creepy…it like they think oh we’ll save souls we’ll baptize them in our name. UH . NO. it doesnt work like that. Jesus saves souls. not any one man. if the person died and did not make the choice to be baptized and believe in Jesus than that is for our lord to judge…and its up to him to give a second chance or not,…not any man that is on the earth.