Mormons Building Temple in Vatican's Backyard

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I find it interesting that there have been 12 pages of comments writen on this page in 10 days. I have read some but not all. I would like to add my own comment that might help some understand why Latter-day Saints build temples.

In the last two chapters of the Old Testament, the Lord tells us that messengers will come to restore the covenants and ordinances of the gospel, including those of the temple. He was speaking to those who would be living during the time shortly before “the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” (Mal. 4:5-6) In other words, in these two chapters he was speaking to us. Please read chapters 3 and 4 of Malachi. They literally tell what is necessary to prepare for the Lord’s return. Verse 3 begins:

“BEHOLD, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.” (Mal. 3:1)

If the Lord is planning to come suddenly to “His temple” shortly before “the great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Second Coming) shouldn’t some Christians be building temples and know what they are for?
 
mtolympus said:
I find it interesting that there have been 12 pages of comments writen on this page in 10 days. I have read some but not all. I would like to add my own comment that might help some understand why Latter-day Saints build temples.

In the last two chapters of the Old Testament, the Lord tells us that messengers will come to restore the covenants and ordinances of the gospel, including those of the temple. He was speaking to those who would be living during the time shortly before “the great and dreadful day of the Lord.” (Mal. 4:5-6) In other words, in these two chapters he was speaking to us. Please read chapters 3 and 4 of Malachi. They literally tell what is necessary to prepare for the Lord’s return. Verse 3 begins:

“BEHOLD, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.” (Mal. 3:1)

If the Lord is planning to come suddenly to “His temple” shortly before “the great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Second Coming) shouldn’t some Christians be building temples and know what they are for?
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Malachi is a Messianic prophesy concerning the coming of Jesus Christ, which occurred. You can read about it in the NT. It isn’t a prophecy about your church.

Jesus specifically teaches that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of the messenger who prepared the way for HIM.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Malachi is a Messianic prophesy concerning the coming of Jesus Christ, which occurred. You can read about it in the NT. It isn’t a prophecy about your church.

Jesus specifically teaches that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of the messenger who prepared the way for HIM.
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John the Baptist was one of the messengers who would come to prepare the way before the Lord, but his mission was different than Elijah the Prophet who would come to “turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers.” (Mal 4:5)

John the Baptist would go before the Lord “in the spirit and power of Elias.” His mission was not to “turn the hearts of the children to their fathers” but rather “the disobedient to the wisdom of the just.” (Luke 1:17) In other words John’s mission was to prepare the way before the Lord with the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

John came in the “spirit and power of Elias” but he made it very clear he was not Elijah the Prophet. “And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered No.” (John 1:21)

Malachi chapters 3 & 4 clearly address the preparation for the Lord’s second coming.
 
St John the Baptist and Christ encountered each other when they were both in their mothers’ wombs.

St. John the Baptist lept for joy when Mary, pregnant with Christ, came to visit St. Elizabeth.

St. John prepared the way for the Lord who fulfilled all the covenants. The Law was already broken when the Jewish people turned away from God to worship the Golden Calf. Nothing of the Law could appease the Lord except His Son.

Jesus and His teachings, His miracles, His sacraments and His calling we be one with Him in His kingdom – already here for 2,000 years fulfills all covenants.

It all ends with Jesus, the Word of God. There is no other word after Him.
 
The Baha’i faith does not believe that Christianity is failed. It believes that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are part of a continuously unfolding plan of divine revelation. I am a former Baha’i, returned to Christianity, so I know whereof I speak, though I do not believe what Baha’is teach.
Cat_Herder said:
Remember that the Muslims and the Baha’i also claim the same thing.

Bitterness is not the proper response, though. Charitably engaging them and reproving them is.
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KathleenGee said:
…
It all ends with Jesus, the Word of God. There is no other word after Him.
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Kathleen (my sister’s first name, by the way:) ),
For the LDS, Jesus still lives, and still gives His living word. So it is a correct statement that “there is no other word after Him” since He is still giving His word to the world, in the present time, and will continue to do so in the future, always.

(But “it all doesn’t end with Jesus”, although He is Alpha and Omega, since your phrasing places the expression in the past. It would seem more appropriate and correct to write, “It all will end with Jesus, the Word of God. There is and will be no other word after Him.”)
 
Good, Parker. But your founder added new concepts and meanings and practices…Christ is God…all is completed in Him and His word…to the point of invalidating the Christian faith. Not good.

Christ does not contradict Himself. He does not fail. We do.
 
The temple that is spoken about is both the members of the mystical body of Christ and the temple of our hearts…do we allow Jesus to abide within us???

Do we think He abides within us when may be He may not???

So we must really discern and seek the Lord…His kingdom is within…
 
KathleenGee said:
Good, Parker. But your founder added new concepts and meanings and practices… He does not fail. We do.
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Kathleen,
Christ certainly does not fail. He will not fail. He has never failed. His work is an eternal work. He knows the end from the beginning…

I don’t think we “fail”. I think He thinks of us as “successes”–you in the best and most heartfelt way you know how, and I likewise.

As far as the “concepts and meanings and practices”, temple work was planned from before the foundation of the world, since it was going to be necessary for the competing of the redemption of mankind, but I suppose that it’s true that there has been a progressive pattern during the history of the world, and God’s plan was not that humankind would stay at one level and never move past it. The plan was a plan of progress and growth, for each person specifically and for mankind generally.

Personally, I like the idea of progress.👍 I wouldn’t want a static, no-progress/no-growth plan.
 
mtolympus said:
John the Baptist was one of the messengers who would come to prepare the way before the Lord, but his mission was different than Elijah the Prophet who would come to “turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers.” (Mal 4:5)

John the Baptist would go before the Lord “in the spirit and power of Elias.” His mission was not to “turn the hearts of the children to their fathers” but rather “the disobedient to the wisdom of the just.” (Luke 1:17) In other words John’s mission was to prepare the way before the Lord with the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

John came in the “spirit and power of Elias” but he made it very clear he was not Elijah the Prophet. “And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered No.” (John 1:21)

Malachi chapters 3 & 4 clearly address the preparation for the Lord’s second coming.
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The hearts of the children are turned to their fathers when they live the law of Moses, which was given by God to bring Israel to righteousness. The hearts of the fathers are turned to their children who experience the Messiah, Who makes all people righteous before God.

Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, who fulfilled the Law. This is Who the messenger of the Lord prepared the way for. Jesus explained very clearly that John the Baptist is this messenger. Why don’t you believe Him?

Matthew 11:10 This is the one about whom it is written: ‘Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you; he will prepare your way before you.’ 11 Amen, I say to you, among those born of women there has been none greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent are taking it by force. 13 All the prophets and the law prophesied up to the time of John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah, the one who is to come. 15 Whoever has ears ought to hear.
 
Agree about not wanting things static, and I am happy to know that Vatican II enabled us to celebrate ‘low Catholicism’. Low Catholicism is guitar groups, folk music, very homey, local. Most Americans are ‘low Catholics’. Then there are the High Catholics, and most of us aren’t. The high Catholics love the solemn Mass in Latin, you see some women coming to Mass wearing mantillas or other beautiful head coverings, the use of incense and the candles…the incense carrying our prayers to heaven…very beautiful and cultured…either way…in these expressions of worship, we do have our covenants continuing to come to us through Jesus Christ, expressed through all the movements, symbols and gestures in the Mass that incorporates us not only to Jesus, but to the Jews of the Old Covenant as we hear in God what God told them millenia ago…to the Epistles…St. Paul speaking to us as he did to the early Christians, to the Gospel where today’s word of Christ speaks to the contemprary low or high hearts…the Word, the homily giving us renewed insights into the life with Christ.

I went to vigil Mass tonight because I have to work…I had a lot of trevail…at the end of Mass, my entire life was now in Christ, everything was OK, and the Lord’s presence within me to help me see He is here in my life…where everything changes.

The message of the Word of God is LOVE. And He wants us to be one with Him, one in mind heart and soul…and to share the same common experiences.

God is the unmoved Mover.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, who fulfilled the Law. This is Who the messenger of the Lord prepared the way for. Jesus explained very clearly that John the Baptist is this messenger. Why don’t you believe Him?.
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I do believe this. I just stated such in my previous statement.
RebeccaJ said:
Matthew 11:10 This is the one about whom it is written: ‘Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you; he will prepare your way before you.’ 11 Amen, I say to you, among those born of women there has been none greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent are taking it by force. 13 All the prophets and the law prophesied up to the time of John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah, the one who is to come. 15 Whoever has ears ought to hear.
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All who come in the “spirit and power of Elias” may be called by the name Elias or Elijah (Hebrew).
 
mtolympus said:
All who come in the “spirit and power of Elias” may be called by the name Elias or Elijah (Hebrew).
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…and?

Malachi are Messianic prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Why don’t you accept this?
 
Anglican_Gal said:
Well, guys, the holy city of Rome will soon be the site of a Mormon temple. Here is the link:

ldschurchtemples.com/rome/video/

Apparently the temple will have a cross on the door to the temple - something you’ll never, ever find in or near a Mormon temple (if they can help it). Unfrortuantely, the biblically and doctrinally illiterate will most likely be impressed by the structure, and become drawn to Mormonism.

Your priests better get on the ball and start telling your folks about the doctrinal deviations of this group - I mean, shouldn’t the Pope say something?

Canterbury, as bad as it is, doesn’t have a Mormon temple in its backyard, thank the Lord!

Anglican gal
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I think you worry too much about this.
 
RebeccaJ said:
…and?

Malachi are Messianic prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus Christ. Why don’t you accept this?
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Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and replaced it with a new covenant, but that doesn’t mean that He canceled His second coming. Malachi chapters 3 & 4 address the need to prepare for the Lord’s second coming. These verses show biblical reference for the need of temples before the second coming. I could go over these chapters verse by verse but I am not trying to prove anything. I hope others will study these on their own and come to there own conclusion as both you and I have done.
 
mtolympus said:
Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses and replaced it with a new covenant, but that doesn’t mean that He canceled His second coming. Malachi chapters 3 & 4 address the need to prepare for the Lord’s second coming. These verses show biblical reference for the need of temples before the second coming. I could go over these chapters verse by verse but I am not trying to prove anything. I hope others will study these on their own and come to there own conclusion as both you and I have done.
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No my friend, it is referencing Jewish temples. The OT references nothing of Mormonism.

The purpose of Jewish temples was daily sacrifice, this need was fulfilled by Jesus, who is now our only Need. Further, His Sacrifice is made Present to us at the Altar, at every Mass.

His coming is not something that was and will be it is a something that has never ceased.

The Last Judgment is His final victory. The concern for us in this regard is being always at the ready for this moment.
 
Hello everyone. I just wandered in from an exmormon site; the exmos are enjoying your discussion about the Rome temple, and so am I. I’m also exmormon and sometimes attend a Catholic church.

If the temple follows the usual pattern, when it’s completed there will be an “open house” which may last 1-3 weeks. During this time, before the temple is dedicated, anyone will be allowed in. In fact, they WANT you to come in. Most of the temples are actually quite lovely inside, although none can compare to the Catholic churches of Rome or most other cities. What you will notice is it’s just a series of rooms, some with panoramic paintings on the walls. The culmination of the visit will be the Celestial Room, which is supposed to be a foretaste of what the highest, or celestial, kingdom of heaven will be like.

It’s hard for me to believe the Mormon church will put a cross on anything. I’ve been involved with the church for a long time, and one of the few unchanging beliefs has been that any form of the cross is unacceptable. This includes crucifixes, necklaces, crosses on Bibles, etc. Since its foundation, Mormonism has been touting how different it is. For over a century the leaders seemed proud of this difference, and many Mormons, when asked if they were Christian, would retort, “I’m Mormon.”

All the kooky things you’ve heard about the beliefs and practices are true. Not just polygamy and blood atonement, but vows in the temple to slit throats and disembowel those who shared the sacred temple secrets. Until very recently, all Mormons could recite “As man is, God was; as God is, man may become”. This expressed the essence of Mormon theology, what is known as “eternal progression”.

If you get a chance, visit during the open house. Everyone on the exmo board is wondering who on earth is going to use the temple; Rome isn’t exactly swarming with Mormons. Most of us think it’s more a publicity stunt than anything. By building temples in countries all over the world, the church hopes to convince people that it’s growing by leaps and bounds. In fact it’s hemorraging members so fast meetinghouses are being closed. The internet, and the truth it can spread, has been devastating to the LDS church.

I hope to have interesting chats here. As I said, I have some acquaintance with the Catholic Church, including a deep love for St. Therese; I read every book about her I can find. I also deeply admire Pope John Paul II for his courageous life under Nazi and Soviet rule and then under the assaults of old age and infirmities.
 
BigBryan said:
It’s hard for me to believe the Mormon church will put a cross on anything. I’ve been involved with the church for a long time, and one of the few unchanging beliefs has been that any form of the cross is unacceptable. This includes crucifixes, necklaces, crosses on Bibles, etc…
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BB, you are incorrect here to say that any form of the cross is unacceptable. This is NOT church doctrine. My daughter had a beautiful cross necklace given to her by her great grandmother that she wore ALL the time - including all her LDS church activities. NEVER once did she get any negative feedback about it - only compliments and many were genuinely touched that she had such a family treasure from her great grandmother. What you stated may have been your personal experience, but it is not everyone’s experience.

Annie
 
BB,

I have read some of the posts of ex-Mormons…continue to read about St. Therese…read some of the early church Fathers…there is so much, so much out there…read the lives the saints by Butler…

I will never in this life learn all of my Catholic faith…there is so much beauty and truth…have you gone to a Catholic Mass…please do…

Ex Mormons, please go to a Catholic Mass…find a parish…and go to the daily Mass or just Sunday’s…get EWTN on cable…
 
Hello, all,

I think you should know that the temple in Italy with such a small population of Mormons is obviously overkill for the provision of sacramental services to the members. As one poster pointed out, as in Hawaii, the temple is a centerpiece for the Visitor’s Center, the Genealogical Library and other features which attract tourists. This is a huge investment and is more than symbolic. The Mormon Church is losing ground when people learn how truly deviant their theology is from traditional Christianity.

Needless to say, they will not be sharing their real gospel with openminded Italian Catholics. They will be emphasizing similarities and their very presence in Italy is to demonstrate to the world their acceptance by the Vatican. I am sure the Pope does not realize he is allowing a structure to stand shoulder to shoulder with the sacred cathedrals --a structure belonging to people who rejected the Christian cross, preferring and glorying in themselves as self-proclaimed “peculiar” people. A cross that appears no where else in Mormondom but in Italy. I am sure the Pope does not know that Mormons believe Christ was conceived via an act of sex between a Heavenly Father from another planet and the Virgin Mary.

Or that he knows that in the Mormon Temple there is a play performed about the garden of Edin in which there appears Satan. When Satan is asked to get preachers, he brings forth a Catholic priest (wearing the unmistakable collar) and this priest scurries about obsequiously doing the bidding of Satan. Who then gives orders to the assembled Mormon members…

Perhaps this anti-Catholic defamatory behavior is one of the reasons Mormons were forced to promise to allow themselves to be executed should they reveal what goes on in the temple ceremonial play. These depictions of throat-cutting and disemboweling, which members were forced to demonstrate, were discontinued in the 1990’s once they were exposed via the internet.

I hope the Vatican will study what happened in Hawaii after the Mormon Temple came in and how it is now the largest tourist complex in the state. Catholics have always believed in avoiding the occasions of sin and avoiding temptation. I would certainly hate to see Catholicism grant this exploitative and dishonest religion the respect of allowing it to spread its false messages about a Great Apostasy causing the early church to lose its priesthood authority and requiring a Restoration of that lineage from Peter to be granted to Joseph Smith, a known pedophile.

Anagrammy
 
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