Mormons converted from Catholicism

[RebeccaJ]

One thing I have not seen mentioned is the tight sense of community that the Mormons foster. I spent a lot of my life in the military, moving quite often, and being a part of many parishes around the country. While a few of the parishes made a real effort to incorporate new members, most did not (Here’s your donation envelopes, mass is at 8, 10, and 12.) Living in Southern Nevada, we have lots of Mormon aquaintences. The Mormons make a substantial effort to get everyone involved, especially the new members. For someone that is looking for that sense of belonging, and is not well grounded in the precepts of their religion, that is a very tempting offer.

Yes, I agree, it is an aspect that people going from Mormon to Catholic can miss. (I didn’t, but have heard other express missing the social aspects of Mormonism.) It is also a reason that many LDS who no longer believe, stay, they want to maintain the social ties and can’t do so if they leave Mormonism.

But, the things is, LDS are assigned to their roles in the social structure. A Catholic parish is all voluntary. So it is up to us all to participate, and not wait to be assigned. Yes, Mass is at 8, 10, 12 and coffee hour is after, and the parish meeting is this Wed. at 7PM, Adoration is the first Thursday of the month, the Feast of our parish Patron/Patroness is July 22nd, Bible study is Thurs. at 7PM, etc. Try attending these and see how many people voluntarily show up.

Mormonism makes all of these types of events compulsory. I pray that our Church never does the same.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

I do not doubt that. As do Mormons, Lutherans, Orthodox, Jews for Jesus, and almost every other Christian sect.

But the question was Trinitarians. As stated, I spent much of several decades studying early Christianity. If Greek philosophy were removed from the equation, Christianity would be a much different religion, so it naturally begs the question why pagan philosophy was the language used when explaining who God was, instead of the thousands of years of history God used to reseal Himself to the Israelites.

God spoke to Israelites for thousands of years, and they understood their God. But when Christ comes as the culmination of those thousands of years, Western Christians turn to Plato to explain who Christ was?

To many who have studied this, it makes no sense. Granted, some study it and do think it makes sense, so there is obviously some room for interpretation, but I am curious if you have made the study yourself?

If so…what?

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am a Catholic of Hebrew heritage. I am of the tribe of Judah. I am studied in both Catholicism and Judaism, and even speak Hebrew and Ladino.

While Gentile Christianity may have borrowed language and philosophy from Hellenistic sources to employ in the hermeneutics of its theology, one must not forget that the concepts of Christianity are at their basic root fully Jewish.

The concept of Messiah is a Jewish one, the word being Hebrew. The concept of worshiping the God of Abraham is again a Jewish concept.

The doctrine of the Most Holy Trinity did not spring up overnight. Neither did it originate from Gentile sources. Once again it arose from the early Christian community and its writings, writings which were composed, with the exception of Luke’s gospel and Acts, by Jews.

The doctrine of the Trinity grew out of the tradition that shaped Matthew 28:19 and John 1:1, texts which were composed by Jewish men–the first cited (Matthew’s verses) likely composed in Aramaic or Hebrew. While the full concept of the Trinity was not yet plainly understood at the time these Hebrews wrote these words, they still did the best they could to proclaim the foundations of the Trinity.

The truth of the matter is that there were no means to fairly communicate many of the new concepts of Christianity in the Hebrew world. Many of the ways the Christians would use to explain their stand required something Christ made possible, the entry of Gentiles into the Church.

What was good and useful in Gentile culture was fully employed by the Church, not only to explain the Trinity in new and more accurate ways, but in other fashions such as creating the book (the codex), and using the Roman network of roads and couriers to spread the gospel. While these were foreign to the Jewish world, this did not keep the Church from using these things to bring Truth to the nations.

While totally respecting the LDS view, the use of concepts and inventions from the Gentile world in preaching and teaching are no more forbidden than dismissing kosher rules for Gentile members of the Church. There is a propriety to everything.

While Hellenistic forms of logic were much later employed to explain the Trinity, this should also take into account that much of this happened after the Second Temple was destroyed and the religious center of Judaism gone. By this time the majority of Christians were no longer of Jewish heritage and it would have been as much a mistake to demand all Gentiles to use only Jewish concepts in learning and teaching Christianity as it would demanding Gentile Christians to submit to the Mosaic Law and circumcision.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

If this is in relationship to my post, please note, I never said Mormons target Catholics exclusively. They do however, target Catholics, and taylor their message to create doubt in a Catholic’s mind, and then use that doubt to their own means.

Don’t believe me, try searching out the internet for Mormon missionary blogs. One had the missionary frustrated because their Catholic target didn’t believe in a great apostasy, so they focused their attention to creating doubt in this person’s mind so they would believe in a great apostasy. They first needed to convince them that Christ’s Church has failed!

No, I don’t think for the most part that Mormons are doing this on purpose. They teach what they believe and what they believe is at its core, anti-Catholic, as their faith begins with calling all religions but themselves an abomination and corrupt. (See Joseph Smith’s first vision.)

I was not commenting regarding your personal views.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Yes, I agree, it is an aspect that people going from Mormon to Catholic can miss. (I didn’t, but have heard other express missing the social aspects of Mormonism.) It is also a reason that many LDS who no longer believe, stay, they want to maintain the social ties and can’t do so if they leave Mormonism.

But, the things is, LDS are assigned to their roles in the social structure. A Catholic parish is all voluntary. So it is up to us all to participate, and not wait to be assigned. Yes, Mass is at 8, 10, 12 and coffee hour is after, and the parish meeting is this Wed. at 7PM, Adoration is the first Thursday of the month, the Feast of our parish Patron/Patroness is July 22nd, Bible study is Thurs. at 7PM, etc. Try attending these and see how many people voluntarily show up.

Mormonism makes all of these types of events compulsory. I pray that our Church never does the same.

It is also up to us to decide if volunteering is something we can do at that point in our lives or if it’s something more we can’t take on. I would hate compulsory activities, the compulsion drives down the whole enterprise. Not only is all participation voluntary, but where you attend church is also voluntary there are quite a number of Polish here in town and many kept ties the their former church in the city having their children receive their sacraments in those churches.

 

[pianistclare]

One thing I have not seen mentioned is the tight sense of community that the Mormons foster. I spent a lot of my life in the military, moving quite often, and being a part of many parishes around the country. While a few of the parishes made a real effort to incorporate new members, most did not (Here’s your donation envelopes, mass is at 8, 10, and 12.) Living in Southern Nevada, we have lots of Mormon aquaintences. The Mormons make a substantial effort to get everyone involved, especially the new members. For someone that is looking for that sense of belonging, and is not well grounded in the precepts of their religion, that is a very tempting offer.

Well, I hear what you’re saying and that is certainly true for a lot of folks.
But for me, I seek Christ in the Eucharist. No one else. I have plenty of friends.
Some I made at church, most, not. For me, Catholic Mass is not a social encounter. It’s an encounter with Jesus. I wouldn’t pass that up for anything, no matter how “attractive” on a superficial level it may be. I am one with the communion of Saints.
But that’s just me.
And a couple of billion others.

 

[TexanKnight]

I have no facts to support this…just my personal experience.

I believe the Majority of those Catholics who become LDS are Hispanic and probably the majority of those living in Central and South America.,

I served my LDS mission in Honduras. I baptized people weekly for almost 2 years. Everyone I baptized was Catholic.

the reasons are simple.

1. Hispanics are very humble and will listen to you.
2. The Mormonism taught sounds exactly like Catholicism except for the fact that Mormons taught (and maybe still do) that Jesus visited THEIR are in Central and/or South America. That is powerful. And, since the brand of LDS taught sounds just like Catholicism, they do not feel bad leaving.
3. They grew up hearing stories of Marian visits, so why can;t Jesus visit a white guy in the USA?

But they are not truly LDS. If you go ask any of those baptized in Central and South America, “do you believe God was once a man?” They will say “No!”. If you ask if they believe in the Trinity, they will say yes.

And many are not converted to the lds church, but to the missionary. They go inactive when the missionary leaves.

If the missionaries taught true lds doctrine, I believe there would be a LOT fewer conversions

 

[Nevada_Bob]

Yes, I agree, it is an aspect that people going from Mormon to Catholic can miss. (I didn’t, but have heard other express missing the social aspects of Mormonism.) It is also a reason that many LDS who no longer believe, stay, they want to maintain the social ties and can’t do so if they leave Mormonism.

But, the things is, LDS are assigned to their roles in the social structure. A Catholic parish is all voluntary. So it is up to us all to participate, and not wait to be assigned. Yes, Mass is at 8, 10, 12 and coffee hour is after, and the parish meeting is this Wed. at 7PM, Adoration is the first Thursday of the month, the Feast of our parish Patron/Patroness is July 22nd, Bible study is Thurs. at 7PM, etc. Try attending these and see how many people voluntarily show up.

Mormonism makes all of these types of events compulsory. I pray that our Church never does the same.

Rebecca - I agree with you and we do attend those events. I am not saying that we should make things like this cumpolsory. On the contrary, we need to do a better job making people want to participate. In a parish with several thousand families, 40-50 people show up for adult bible study, maybe 60 men active in the KofC, 100 women acitve in the women’s guild, etc.

We have such a beautiful faith, but we do not do a good job selling it and making people excited about it. How many of our people are confirmed and that is the last formal training that they have in their faith?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca - I agree with you and we do attend those events. I am not saying that we should make things like this cumpolsory. On the contrary, we need to do a better job making people want to participate. In a parish with several thousand families, 40-50 people show up for adult bible study, maybe 60 men active in the KofC, 100 women acitve in the women’s guild, etc.

We have such a beautiful faith, but we do not do a good job selling it and making people excited about it. How many of our people are confirmed and that is the last formal training that they have in their faith?

I don’t know the answer. People are free to participate, or not. I think some people want to be “invisible”, and others, don’t see where they fit in. A bilingual parish, such as mine, makes it even more complicated.

 

[pianistclare]

Rebecca - I agree with you and we do attend those events. I am not saying that we should make things like this cumpolsory. On the contrary, we need to do a better job making people want to participate. In a parish with several thousand families, 40-50 people show up for adult bible study, maybe 60 men active in the KofC, 100 women acitve in the women’s guild, etc.

We have such a beautiful faith, but we do not do a good job selling it and making people excited about it. How many of our people are confirmed and that is the last formal training that they have in their faith?

Lots of them. Oodles, really. But you can’t force someone to come to classes. That’s one of the big reasons kids walk away…because someone FORCED them to participate.
Once they had their own wheels…they’d rather go to the movies.
I have a theory…which goes way back…
I think that for so many years, people were told to show up, pay up, shut up. They were taught that religious things were “above their ability to comprehend” so just listen and nod.
But now, we’re all about instruction, learning more about what the Church teaches, we’re inviting people all the time to good solid scripture study, we’re running summer lunch programs, etc…But for the person in the pew…it might just be that they don’t BELIEVE they need more. Our culture says “believe what you want…and don’t let anyone try to tell you your own conscience is wrong”. Witness the many Catholics who say they are practicing but also say in the same breath that they think the Eucharist is just a symbol.
It’s crazy. The thought of a lot of people is that if you go to church more than once a week, you’re a fanatic. Sounds harsh, eh? But people really feel this way.
I and some others on the parish council have been instructed by our Pastor to interview some of the faithful pew sitters. People who always come to Mass, but do not participate on any other level, and ask them WHY? Are the classes not convenient? Are they simply not interested? Do they never make time for themselves, being busy with children maybe? Do they feel intimidated by the strong outspoken members of the parish? WHY? What is it that keeps them from fully participating.
I’m all ears. I can’t wait to hear what they say…and my Pastor wants to reach out to these people…but first we have to get inside their heads. Maybe my theory is all wrong. Maybe they just don’t care. Our parish desperately WANTS to do a better job. So that’s why we’re going to the source…and asking “What’s the deal?”
When I get some answers, I’ll post…
Peace to you…this is a great discussion about what it means to be “church”. Albeit way off-topic. Perhaps we should begin a new thread?

At any rate…
Thank God for the Catholic Church and it’s richness and Sacraments. I for one, could never look elsewhere.

 

[boomerang]

One thing I have not seen mentioned is the tight sense of community that the Mormons foster. I spent a lot of my life in the military, moving quite often, and being a part of many parishes around the country. While a few of the parishes made a real effort to incorporate new members, most did not (Here’s your donation envelopes, mass is at 8, 10, and 12.) Living in Southern Nevada, we have lots of Mormon aquaintences. The Mormons make a substantial effort to get everyone involved, especially the new members. For someone that is looking for that sense of belonging, and is not well grounded in the precepts of their religion, that is a very tempting offer.

That is the absolute truth. This is why my ex-Catholic friend joined the Mormons. She said it was because they “support me”. They will help members with food and money for bills when they are needy, which is a very good thing. But she had no idea what Mormon doctrine was at all. Nada. Zilch.

 

[pianistclare]

That is the absolute truth. This is why my ex-Catholic friend joined the Mormons. She said it was because they “support me”. They will help members with food and money for bills when they are needy, which is a very good thing. But she had no idea what Mormon doctrine was at all. Nada. Zilch.

Too bad she didn’t ask fro help in the Catholic Church. We give lots of assistance every week. We have a loan program, and obviously, St., Vincent de Paul, and also a large group of anonymous parishioners that are available to help at our parish.

 

[kimg901]

I talk to people before they are baptized, what am I doing wrong?

Your spreading false doctrine is whats wrong. The devil is hard at work.

 

[kimg901]

That is the absolute truth. This is why my ex-Catholic friend joined the Mormons. She said it was because they “support me”. They will help members with food and money for bills when they are needy, which is a very good thing. But she had no idea what Mormon doctrine was at all. Nada. Zilch.

Ah yes. The “support” issue. They do give it to you. But you are required to pay it back in some form. I could go on and on about their charity but I wont.

 

[jadamo]

I and some others on the parish council have been instructed by our Pastor to interview some of the faithful pew sitters. People who always come to Mass, but do not participate on any other level, and ask them WHY? Are the classes not convenient? Are they simply not interested? Do they never make time for themselves, being busy with children maybe? Do they feel intimidated by the strong outspoken members of the parish? WHY? What is it that keeps them from fully participating.
I’m all ears. I can’t wait to hear what they say…and my Pastor wants to reach out to these people…but first we have to get inside their heads. Maybe my theory is all wrong. Maybe they just don’t care. Our parish desperately WANTS to do a better job. So that’s why we’re going to the source…and asking “What’s the deal?”
When I get some answers, I’ll post…
Peace to you…this is a great discussion about what it means to be “church”. Albeit way off-topic. Perhaps we should begin a new thread?

You should read the book “Four Signs of a Dynamic Catholic” by Matthew Kelly, he talks about just this, and how to start engaging more Catholics, helping them to understand their faith better by giving them free books. I received this book as a gift for my birthday last month and I have now given it to a Knight of Columbus member at my parish who helps disperse the funds the Knights raise. I’m hoping that by Easter, we’ll have over 2000 free books to give out to parishioners who only show up once or twice a year for Mass. Sounds like a great program and I can’t wait to get it going at my parish!

cart.dynamiccatholic.com/Free-Four-Signs-of-a-Dynamic-Catholic-p/1fs.htm

Here’s the website as well w/more information

dynamiccatholic.com/

 

[pianistclare]

You should read the book “Four Signs of a Dynamic Catholic” by Matthew Kelly, he talks about just this, and how to start engaging more Catholics, helping them to understand their faith better by giving them free books. I received this book as a gift for my birthday last month and I have now given it to a Knight of Columbus member at my parish who helps disperse the funds the Knights raise. I’m hoping that by Easter, we’ll have over 2000 free books to give out to parishioners who only show up once or twice a year for Mass. Sounds like a great program and I can’t wait to get it going at my parish!

cart.dynamiccatholic.com/Free-Four-Signs-of-a-Dynamic-Catholic-p/1fs.htm

Here’s the website as well w/more information

dynamiccatholic.com/

Oh, trust me, we’ve seen all his books. They went all around our Diocese a couple of years ago. Father said he was not interested in anything Mr. Kelly had to sell.
Sorry.

 

[andrewstx]

I talk to people before they are baptized, what am I doing wrong?

But Mormon missionaries do not give their converts all the info about Mormonism, they want them rebaptised as soon as possible. You learn the rest in sunday school, priesthood meeting and other places.

Had I known the full truth about mormonism like Heavenly Mother, people becoming “gods” with their own planets to run I would never have allowed them to rebaptise me.

As it was as soon as I learned all the "interesting"things about momonism I left with no excommunication or name removal. I just walked away, never to return.

 

[Stephen168]

That is interesting. I have, as I stated before, studied Christian history extensively, and the philosophical underpinnings of most mainstream Christian sects rely far more on Greek thought, a pagan philosophical tradition, than they in any way associated with Semitic philosophical traditions.

I see a lot more of our beliefs in the early Christian experience than I even have in the Platonic conceptualizations of Christ. I consider the Trinity to be far more Athens than Jerusalem.

Christianity started with first century Judaism in a place where Greek was the lingua franca. Where there is one God, who created everything out of nothing. The Word was God. His Word taught us the beatific vision and gave us the Eucharist. By his example and the example of the Apostles we learn that not being married is the best state for the Priesthood and all men are created equal.
While spending a lot of time with Mormon’s in the 1970’s I learned that Mormonism is a complete rejection of Christianity and the Book of Mormon was not true as defined by Joseph Smith. I could never give up the Eucharist for bread and water.
The one thing I did learn from Mormons was the importances of the ‘home church’ and having a spouse that shared by faith. This was something lacking in the Catholic Church where and when I grew up.

Greek Philosophy seems to be a Mormon bogeyman which none have ever been able to give an example of its influence on Christian thought in the first four centuries.

While Hellenistic forms of logic were much later employed to explain the Trinity, this should also take into account that much of this happened after the Second Temple was destroyed and the religious center of Judaism gone. By this time the majority of Christians were no longer of Jewish heritage and it would have been as much a mistake to demand all Gentiles to use only Jewish concepts in learning and teaching Christianity as it would demanding Gentile Christians to submit to the Mosaic Law and circumcision.

Maybe you can give me an example of Greek Philosophy used to explain the Trinity.

 

[Stephen168]

My point is that this desire for belonging and love is good! But, it comes at the cost of reason and truth. That is why I really doubt any claims by converted former Catholics that they became Mormon due to a serious theological issue. There is no sound Mormon theology.

That is my observation as well

 

[LivingWaters7]

Didn’t someone just post they were baptized a week after meeting Mormon missionaries?

As I’ve posted before, the missionaries asked me to be baptized at our first meeting (I know that at least one other YSA convert in my stake said the same thing happened to him), and I was baptized 2 weeks later.

 

[LivingWaters7]

It’s amusing to me that many LDS will say that truths can be found everywhere, non-LDS can receive inspiration from God, and that when one comes to the LDS Church to bring those truths with them, and we see that Freemasonry was incorporated into the temple Endowment. Yet, somehow, the “pagan philosophers” could not have been inspired in some of their musings, and the ancient Jews and Christians could not have recognized such inspiration, and utilized some of that language, found in their own, surrounding cultures, to explain and expound upon revealed truths?