Mormons converted from Catholicism

[PaulDupre1]

I agree with you as well.

The Latter-Day Saints, considering themselves to be the descendants of the Biblical Patriarchs, have a historical view of Judaism that is in sharp disagreement with the religious and secular history of my people.

Their claims to being of the House of Israel are not only impossible to reconcile through their skewed history but through DNA as well. A simple DNA test from me matches the paper trails and oral family history and confirms our place among the children of Abraham, but this cannot be said for them or their belief that Native Americans are descended from Semitic Israelites.

With no historical, genetic, linguistic, or cultural evidence to support their views of a connection with Israel it is no surprise that they fail to recognize the very points you make. Several members of my family had a connection with or may have lived in Alexandria in the Diaspora, and it is because of this that Koine Greek is one of the languages currently used in my Jewish family.

Their ideas on this subject are clearly unfounded.

That reminds me: When I was LDS (1975 - 1986) they taught that when I was baptised, God changed my blood so that now I was of the house of Israel, specifically the tribe of Ephraim.

They were big on “blood” back then, as in “One drop of negro blood disqualifies a man from the priesthood”.

I assume they meant that my DNA was altered. Do they still teach that? I doubt it. Same as they used to teach that Amer-Indians would turn white after they joined the LDS.

Paul

 

[SpeSalvi]

I’d like to point out that Freemasonry dates back to the early 18th century, if you’re incredibly liberal with your timeline.

The Mass of The Early Christians dates back to 33 AD.

If I’m going to bank on a religion that utilizes the same format that Christ instituted, I think I’m going to go with the religion that has documented ties to Early Christianity. I honestly think that anyone with eyes to see should be able to see that the close ties to Masonry automatically disqualify the LDS temple ceremonies from being connected to the Early Church.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’d like to point out that Freemasonry dates back to the early 18th century, if you’re incredibly liberal with your timeline.

The Mass of The Early Christians dates back to 33 AD.

If I’m going to bank on a religion that utilizes the same format that Christ instituted, I think I’m going to go with the religion that has documented ties to Early Christianity. I honestly think that anyone with eyes to see should be able to see that the close ties to Masonry automatically disqualify the LDS temple ceremonies from being connected to the Early Church.

I recall LDS believing Masonic rites go back to Solomon, as the Freemasons once claimed, and most likely would have been believed by Smith. I still find once in a while a Mormon who believes this and expounds on Freemasonry in the same way they expound on Catholicism. ie, remnants of truth but it’s a darned good thing they have a Restoration.

 

[marywarfield]

Is there any evidence to this assertion of high numbers
of Catholixs to Mormonism other than merely anecdotal?
At least an Angel said to Brian on a tablet at least?
Anything?

 

[marywarfield]

That reminds me: When I was LDS (1975 - 1986) they taught that when I was baptised, God changed my blood so that now I was of the house of Israel, specifically the tribe of Ephraim.

They were big on “blood” back then, as in “One drop of negro blood disqualifies a man from the priesthood”.

I assume they meant that my DNA was altered. Do they still teach that? I doubt it. Same as they used to teach that Amer-Indians would turn white after they joined the LDS.

Paul

I thought that was Zhehovah Witnesses with the blood thing.

 

[taylorf]

I honestly think that anyone with eyes to see should be able to see that the close ties to Masonry automatically disqualify the LDS temple ceremonies from being connected to the Early Church.

I just want to know a few things about the early church’s temple ceremony:

1. 
   *]Did Peter, James, and John play themselves?
   *]Do they remember visiting Adam?
   *]Who represented Lucifer? A Roman governor or a Jewish High Priest?

 

[iepuras]

I just want to know a few things about the early church’s temple ceremony:

1. 
   *]Did Peter, James, and John play themselves?
   *]Do they remember visiting Adam?
   *]Who represented Lucifer? A Roman governor or a Jewish High Priest?

1. 
   

 

[TexanKnight]

I just want to know a few things about the early church’s temple ceremony:

1. 
   *]Did Peter, James, and John play themselves?
   *]Do they remember visiting Adam?
   *]Who represented Lucifer? A Roman governor or a Jewish High Priest?

1. 
   and who determined the blood oaths and the secret handshakes?
   
   and if it was done JUST like it had been since the OT…then why the need to suddenly change it in 1990?
   
   And since the three main rooms in the temple (terrestrial, telestial and celestial) are based on a verse in Corinthians, what did they call those three room in OT times?

 

[marywarfield]

I just want to know a few things about the early church’s temple ceremony:

1. 
   *]Did Peter, James, and John play themselves?
   *]Do they remember visiting Adam?
   *]Who represented Lucifer? A Roman governor or a Jewish High Priest?

1. 
   And did Peter Janes and John attend the dances
   with the girls of the Eastern Star? And if so did they
   dance with one woman or two at a time?

 

[PaulDupre1]

I thought that was Zhehovah Witnesses with the blood thing.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have (or had) a prohibition against taking blood transfusions.

Mormons have (or had) a preoccupation with bloodlines, geneaologies, tribal affiliations, etc.

 

[Anziano]

While Hellenistic forms of logic were much later employed to explain the Trinity, this should also take into account that much of this happened after the Second Temple was destroyed and the religious center of Judaism gone. By this time the majority of Christians were no longer of Jewish heritage and it would have been as much a mistake to demand all Gentiles to use only Jewish concepts in learning and teaching Christianity as it would demanding Gentile Christians to submit to the Mosaic Law and circumcision.

Sorry, I was in the middle of a huge project that required almost all of my time.

With regards to the Trinity, I am curious how you would square Hebrew philosophy and theology with the currently embodied Trinity?

For example, in the Greek world, the gods regularly took on human form and wandered among men. They interacted with men regularly. There is no parallel to this in Judaism at all, and is an odd inclusion in Christian circles.

Platonic thought included triune concepts such as the trinity of the soul. There were plenty of triune concepts in Greek philosophy, but not in Hebrew theology. Early Christians recognized this and attempted to link Moses and Greek philosophy, which was incorrect, but at least a recognition that a bridge was being attempted where one did not exist before.

Using primary sources, could you explain the dichotomy.

 

[truthseeker32]

For example, in the Greek world, the gods regularly took on human form and wandered among men. They interacted with men regularly. There is no parallel to this in Judaism at all, and is an odd inclusion in Christian circles.

Wait a minute, don’t Mormons believe God has a human form and can interact with men? What exactly are you getting at here.

Platonic thought included triune concepts such as the trinity of the soul. There were plenty of triune concepts in Greek philosophy, but not in Hebrew theology. Early Christians recognized this and attempted to link Moses and Greek philosophy, which was incorrect, but at least a recognition that a bridge was being attempted where one did not exist before.

Using primary sources, could you explain the dichotomy.

First, instead of just making stuff up, how about you cite some sources to back up your ridiculous claims.

 

[Anziano]

Wait a minute, don’t Mormons believe God has a human form and can interact with men? What exactly are you getting at here.

The LDS theological conceptualization of God does include anthropomorphic qualities, but this is nothing like the belief that God could take human form and walk among people, unsuspecting that there would be God among them.

First, instead of just making stuff up, how about you cite some sources to back up your ridiculous claims.

Ummmmm…seriously?

“Platonic thought included triune concepts such as the trinity of the soul.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato’s_tripartite_theory_of_soul

“There were plenty of triune concepts in Greek philosophy, but not in Hebrew theology.”

I am asking for the Hebrew parallels, I cannot prove a negative, that is a logical fallacy…?

“Early Christians recognized this and attempted to link Moses and Greek philosophy, which was incorrect, but at least a recognition that a bridge was being attempted where one did not exist before.”

ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.lix.html

 

[taylorf]

but this is nothing like the belief that God could take human form and walk among people, unsuspecting that there would be God among them.

You mean like when the Apostles couldn’t recognize the resurrected Jesus?

 

[Stephen168]

For example, in the Greek world, the gods regularly took on human form and wandered among men. They interacted with men regularly. There is no parallel to this in Judaism at all, and is an odd inclusion in Christian circles.

The Christian God (Father) does not have human form, while I believe the Mormon God has flesh and bone.

Platonic thought included triune concepts such as the trinity of the soul. There were plenty of triune concepts in Greek philosophy, but not in Hebrew theology.

You say “plenty” but list only one. Can you list a few more?

 

[RebeccaJ]

The LDS theological conceptualization of God does include anthropomorphic qualities, but this is nothing like the belief that God could take human form and walk among people, unsuspecting that there would be God among them.

Ummmmm…seriously?

“Platonic thought included triune concepts such as the trinity of the soul.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato’s_tripartite_theory_of_soul

“There were plenty of triune concepts in Greek philosophy, but not in Hebrew theology.”

I am asking for the Hebrew parallels, I cannot prove a negative, that is a logical fallacy…?

“Early Christians recognized this and attempted to link Moses and Greek philosophy, which was incorrect, but at least a recognition that a bridge was being attempted where one did not exist before.”

ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.ii.lix.html

Jews are monotheistic. Mormonism is polytheistic. So, what is your point, exactly?

Christianity is monotheistic. Our center is Jesus Christ, who said, “I AM”, claiming to be God for which the Pharisees wanted to stone him. I don’t know why you have this insistence that Christians are aspiring Jews. We are not. Neither are we aspiring ancient Greek pagans. We aspire to be a disciple of Jesus Christ.

The Catholic churches Christianize, which can be described as “turning to Christ”. Whereas LDS have a Puritan streak that says non-Christian cultures and methods of knowledge can and will contaminated “pure religion” (thus, Puritans), Catholics are not Puritans. The Church when she evangelizes does not seek to destroy the person, their culture, their methods of understanding, but rather seeks to turn all things to Christ.

 

[Stephen168]

Jews are monotheistic. Mormonism is polytheistic. So, what is your point, exactly?

See Catholics are monotheistic. Greek pagans were polytheistic, so therefore Mormonism is more like the ancient…never mind

 

[truthseeker32]

It is easy to claim that early Christianity was corrupted by Hellenistic philosophy; what is difficult is actually backing up such a claim. Some points to consider:

1. What if God intended for Christianity to meet Hellenism? Surely he knew that by sending Christ into the world at the height of the Roman Empire the Church would be exposed to such ideas.
2. “Hellenism” is not one, unified ideology. Hellenic culture contained many different beliefs and ideologies. I could just as easily argue that Mormonism was shaped by Greek Hellenism by pointing to the belief among some Greeks that gods had bodies and that the universe was eternal. Further, all religions are in some manner a product of their times. I could argue that Mormonism was corrupted by American enlightenment ideas. As you know, many of Smith’s ideas were inspired by popular thought of the time.
3. Why must we think that what is correct must coincide with what Jews believed? If one studies the Old Testament one will find that Abraham understood God differently than Daniel. There was a development of Israel’s understanding of the Divine. Why couldn’t this understanding have continued?
4. Finally, you cannot lump all Trinitarians into the same corrupted group since many saints of the church had their own criticisms to make of Greek philosophies. Even to this day there are Trinitarian Christians like the late Fr. John Romanides who was very critical of Greek philosophy.
   It is therefore necessary to demonstrate that the elements of Christianity that parallel Greek Hellenism are faulty by criticizing the ideas themselves.

 

[Anziano]

Jews are monotheistic. Mormonism is polytheistic. So, what is your point, exactly?

Christianity is monotheistic. Our center is Jesus Christ, who said, “I AM”, claiming to be God for which the Pharisees wanted to stone him. I don’t know why you have this insistence that Christians are aspiring Jews. We are not. Neither are we aspiring ancient Greek pagans. We aspire to be a disciple of Jesus Christ.

The Catholic churches Christianize, which can be described as “turning to Christ”. Whereas LDS have a Puritan streak that says non-Christian cultures and methods of knowledge can and will contaminated “pure religion” (thus, Puritans), Catholics are not Puritans. The Church when she evangelizes does not seek to destroy the person, their culture, their methods of understanding, but rather seeks to turn all things to Christ.

Why do you assume your Christianity is monotheistic? Neither Muslims nor Jews consider your beliefs monotheistic.

 

[Anziano]

The Christian God (Father) does not have human form, while I believe the Mormon God has flesh and bone.

You say “plenty” but list only one. Can you list a few more?

I’ve already answered a few of your questions, could you answer a few of mine first? For example, could you give an example of Jewish theology or philosophy prior to 100BC that could be described as similar to homoousios? Primary sources please.