Mormons search the web and find doubt

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Stephen168 said:
Because Joseph Smith continued to make up stuff and the Book of Mormon was written; until he died.

In the 1970s my Mormon friend told me they had just not found the evidence yet. Of course science was already telling us that the aboriginal people of America were from Asia.
This is what has proven Joseph Smith to be a liar.

Yes, we can. The facts are: the Book of Mormon is a 19th century document and Mormonism was started by Joseph Smith in 19th century America.
We know the New Testament is a first century document. We know that Jesus Christ started a church in the first century and history shows that the Catholic Church can reasonably claim to be that Church while Mormonism cannot.
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Let’s not forget the use of the word “adieu” in the bom. That is obviously a French word that was not used in ancient times.

Then we have the statement that the bom was the most complete/accurate book ever written. How many thousands of changes have their been?

White and delightsome to pure and delightsome for example.
 
invisible_man said:
If it were only so simple.

it is that simple

I think that Joseph Smith’s name always brought contention. This was the case from the very beginning. It seems that it still continues. I don’t think that it helps that Joseph Smith is called a liar or a false prophet. Name calling is not the way to go. It seems that the Mormons have left this forum because of it. One must have a charitable discussion with people.

If someone brings contention, look at the reason. For example, it can be said Christ brought contention…but why? Because he taught something new to the Jews and because He was destroying the way of life. While some may have called Him a liar, there is no evidence they had that He ever lied.

The Founding Fathers brought contention. So why? They wanted to end what they believed was an unfair ruling class.

js brought contention. So why? Well, first because he was a convicted con man. He cheated people for a living. Later, because he jumped on a “I saw God” bandwagon (though he had many versions of that incident). Then, because he claimed he had gold plates with a language that no one has ever proved existed about a land that no one can find and regarding a people no one can verify.

Later, because he cheated people in a bank scandal. Then, he ran. Later, because he was caught having adultery and then came up with a plan to take men’s’ wives. He later asked William Law to have a wife swapping deal. When Law got upset and the Expositor exposed him…so, he broke the law and destroyed the press. He tried to run AGAIN, but was shamed into returning. So, he claimed he was going like a lamb, but had an illegal pistol in jail, and after firing it blindly at people, tried to run, leaving his friends to face the mob, and was shot. Based on all of that, it not surprising he caused contention. It was not for good reasons.

I discovered a lot of information by going to lds.org. I see very little hidden when I searched for answers that were brought by members of this thread and other Mormon threads. I expected no results at all.

There is tons of stuff hidden. The problem is, you do not know what is hidden because it is hidden. We only know what SOME of the hidden stuff is because more and more people are exposing them and causing the lds church to come forth. Things like Mark Hoffman has exposed the lds leaders for their dishonesty. So, much of what is now being shown WAS hidden till the lds Church was forced to come clean
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invisible_man said:
If it were only so simple. I think that Joseph Smith’s name always brought contention. This was the case from the very beginning. It seems that it still continues.
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I don’t think his parents would have given him a name that brought contention. It was the actions of Joseph Smith that brought contention.
invisible_man said:
I don’t think that it helps that Joseph Smith is called a liar or a false prophet. Name calling is not the way to go. It seems that the Mormons have left this forum because of it. One must have a charitable discussion with people.
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Is it a fact that Joseph Smith has been caught telling lies. It is not “name calling.” It is a fact which you, as a Mormon, cannot refute.
invisible_man said:
Code: 
I discovered a lot of information by going to lds.org. I see very little hidden when I searched for answers that were brought by members of this thread and other Mormon threads. I expected no results at all.
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Were you able to refute Joseph Smith’s lie about the Book of Mormon?
 
invisible_man said:
I found this from a Mormon site:

fairlds.org/fair-conferences/2013-fair-conference/2013-the-loss-and-rekindling-of-faith

I think that the Mormon Church is now addressing the issue. The stories of these Mormons are interesting. From faith, to doubt, to faith again. Their issues seem to be represented here among the ExMormons.
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Oh dear:
“I ended up going to BYU majoring in Spanish and I remember being asked by my BYU Bishop to come out of the audience to bear my testimony and I know he was anticipating a very strong testimony from an Eyring. An honest person, that I was, stood up and said “I thought the Church was true but I wasn’t sure. Before I could say much more, I was pulled away from the podium, like a stage actor with the Vaudeville hook, probably to keep me from doing any further damage that day.”***

How sad. And odd.
 
People itch to hear what they want to hear.

There is a vast difference between objective and documented truth vs subjective feelings that always orientate one’s self towards one’s ego. Joseph Smith and the problems he generated are not on equal par with that of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was to be the cause of the rise and fall of Israel. The name Israel has changed to that ‘who seek the truth’.

Invisible man…recommend you get hold of John Paul II’s, ‘Veritatis Splendor’, the ‘Splendor of Truth’. There is also a book out there by Professor Woods on how the Catholic Church provided the foundation of Western Civlization. As the Church retained use the Book of Wisdom, Sirach, Proverbs – these books are testment to God’s natural law, and that God Himself follows His own law He created.

No peep hat here.
 
Rather on the Road to Emmaus, I recall the great difference of opinion among Mormons and Catholics here last year or so.

We Catholics are not so focused on the burning in the bosom, but on ‘how He taught us everything’, how He conversed with them on this road, and drew them into the depth of the Word of God through reason and reflection – these stirring the depths of their hearts…not feelings but insight coming into the transcendence of God. There were no miracles. He ended with having a meal with them and breaking bread with roasted fish, - and then disappeared, His last appearance here on earth. They then recognized Him after He was gone.

I attended a homily one time by a visiting priest. He said Jesus could do anything, but He was so humble that He wanted to extend His grace and power into those who followed Him. In ministry, so many of us become His extension – His feet, His hands, His words, His mind and heart…

‘Let us spread His fragrance everywhere. Let it not be from me. Let it be only from You, Jesus. We must die to self and then our lives are no longer our own but His.’ From St. John Newman.

This requires alot of reasoning, reflecting and studying to learn to be more in the Lord.
 
When those two young ladies from Utah came all the way here nearly 20 years ago they were welcomed into my home, I didn’t doubt they’re commitment, they prayed & talked and we shared pictures of Jesus & they left me the book of Mormon.

And we’ve seen the young gentlemen here as well, all very nice, just last week I saw two young men walking around this part of N’Ireland.

I have to admire their vigour for preaching what they believe, now for them to leave religion to be atheist would be a victory for the evil one, I hope the come closer to the Truth, and I believe that truth is in the Catholic Church, standing for 2’000 years, warts & all… I hope they aren’t like those that approached Jesus and walked away, Mormons are well versed in the Bible. DON’T be a victim of Matthew & the warning of Jesus about the parable of the sower to which so many conveniently forget…
 
Slaney said:
When those two young ladies from Utah came all the way here nearly 20 years ago they were welcomed into my home, I didn’t doubt they’re commitment, they prayed & talked and we shared pictures of Jesus & they left me the book of Mormon.

And we’ve seen the young gentlemen here as well, all very nice, just last week I saw two young men walking around this part of N’Ireland.

I have to admire their vigour for preaching what they believe, now for them to leave religion to be atheist would be a victory for the evil one, I hope the come closer to the Truth, and I believe that truth is in the Catholic Church, standing for 2’000 years, warts & all… I hope they aren’t like those that approached Jesus and walked away, Mormons are well versed in the Bible. DON’T be a victim of Matthew & the warning of Jesus about the parable of the sower to which so many conveniently forget…
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Very good post. I agree with you.
 
TexanKnight said:
the more we prove him wrong, the invisibler he becomes…
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Not true, Where have I been proven wrong? I do have a life. It seems that Mormons can get tired here because of all the negativity. Where have all the Mormons gone?
 
Slaney said:
When those two young ladies from Utah came all the way here nearly 20 years ago they were welcomed into my home, I didn’t doubt they’re commitment, they prayed & talked and we shared pictures of Jesus & they left me the book of Mormon.

And we’ve seen the young gentlemen here as well, all very nice, just last week I saw two young men walking around this part of N’Ireland.

I have to admire their vigour for preaching what they believe, now for them to leave religion to be atheist would be a victory for the evil one, I hope the come closer to the Truth, and I believe that truth is in the Catholic Church, standing for 2’000 years, warts & all… I hope they aren’t like those that approached Jesus and walked away, Mormons are well versed in the Bible. DON’T be a victim of Matthew & the warning of Jesus about the parable of the sower to which so many conveniently forget…
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I, too, find it sad when people leave Mormonism and become atheist. From personal experience, it is difficult to have faith in God when what you have been taught to believe your whole life is based on a lie from a false prophet. Many ex-Mormons look at Christianity and decide that there is no evidence that Peter, Paul and all the Apostles were telling the truth and end up rejecting Jesus Christ as well. Even though it has been difficult at times, I choose to believe the Apostles. I have faith in God. It gets easier every day.

The Mormon church abuses its members and even though I still feel anger, I have to remember that the regular members are victims like I once was. My family is still very much Mormon and it is a struggle to not be able to share my faith journey with them. I have to show repsect and love towards them as I expect the same. I have not had a run in with the missionaries since I left, but I plan on being kind but firm with them. You never know if you will cause them to think and start studying their way out.

Many thanks to your kindness to the missionaries in Ireland. My father was a Mormon missionary in Ireland in 1971-73 during the Troubles. My uncle was also in Vietnam at the time so my grandmother was super worried about both! My dad spent most of his time in the Belfast area and absolutely loved it.

Many ex-Mormons, like myself, do find God, so there is hope. Looking forward to Easter Vigil 2014!
 
I wrote:
Do not Mormon’s claim that the BoM is the “Fullness of the Everlasting Gospel”?
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If this is true, why does one not find the following in it?
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  • God is an exalted man with a body of flesh and bones
  • Jesus Christ is the “spirit brother” of Lucifer
  • Men can become gods.
  • God the Father has a god above him
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Invisible Man then wrote:
Sounds different but also unique. What is wrong in that? 🤷 I will look into these issues and maybe give an opinion. This has nothing to do with doubt so it would be off topic.
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Invisible, my response is that you are doing good and need to look into these issues. The book that you consider the “fullness of the everlasting gospel”, written in 1830 says nothing about them. The rational mind says why not?

Why would Joseph Smith:

Add these doctrines nearly twenty years after the BoM was written?

Describe an ancient civilization in North America with no whatsoever archeological evidence?

Detail an ancient battle on hill in Cumorah, NY which again, has no archeological evidence?

Write that the American Indians are descendants of a people from ancient Palatine whereas genetic science shows them to be from Asia?

Speak to a new gospel when the bible says that we should reject any new gospel (Galatians 1:80

No…I’d say that above questions have everything to do with doubt. The intellect is capable of discerning the truth. You are capable of answering these questions and finding the truth that is in Catholicism.

There never was a apostasy…never a reason to restore the Church. Quite the opposite, the Church has been led to the Truth as promised by Christ and he has kept his promise to be with the Catholic Church until the end of time.

Have to ask yourself, “would Jesus start his Church on earth and then lie?” There are only two options here:

a) Jesus Christ lied
b) Joseph Smith lied

You are capable of discerning which is true above. Many on CAF have done so already. Good luck on your journey…keep searching, asking and discovering.
 
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