Mormons: this is a BIG DEAL

[mfbukowski]

2C

Firstly thank you,

If I may ask another question. If you were to sit quietly closing your eyes and think about the Savior pasing the bread and wine, would you see him doing it the Catholic way or LDS or another ?

I would like to say one must never let go of any spiritual experiences as I place these above any secular learning BUT I can only imagine that if they are far and few between it cannot be easy and I believe this is why we are told not to judge. I am sorry that I cannot relate to your experience in the church as I have been blessed many / many times with confirmation and the reasurence from the Holy Ghost as to the truthfulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ as found in the LDS church, from a simple prayer next to my bed, to receiving a calling of my own or that of one of the Lords special witnesses to the temple.

I have often said that it is like a jigsaw puzzle and to date there is not a piece that does not fit for me - as I have looked into other faiths and ways of thinking as well as looking into anti mormon stuff, man the amount of misquoting, I do not know if it is done deliberately or out of ignorance.

I sometimes wonder why the Lord has blessed me in this way for I listen to others like yourself who’s witness is a one time experience with some going from strenght to strength and others slowly die.

With all the info on line etc one can loose ones footing even the best of us, I believe this is one way for that sifting to take place that the Lord will have a tried and tested people to recieve him at the time of his comming which is inevitable

I cant coment on Pres Mckay comment but I do know that if you fake your love for someone with time you do come to love them, I just dont know how this would work with one’s testimony ?

My better half needs (milk from the missionaries) no the shop better run

You brother, are a very good man with a very powerful spirit and testimony and it is a privilege to associate with you here. I would hope we could meet one day.

 

[ronald_g_w]

I think that whyme does not realize that priests purchase their own vestments out of their own meager salaries. I know of none who can afford to buy gold-trimmed vestments. Occasionally a priest will receive a set of vestments as a gift from friends or family, but that is the exception rather than the rule, and most priests come from families of modest means.

You’d think that someone who hangs out with Catholic clergy and religious all the time would know that.

Ronald

If I may ask another question. If you were to sit quietly closing your eyes and think about the Savior pasing the bread and wine, would you see him doing it the Catholic way or LDS or another ?

It’s the procession, the bell’s, the incense, the sprinkling and the vestments - the theatrics of it all. If Jesus were here would he do it this way ?? This is what I was asking 2C

 

[mfbukowski]

All of which are rich in symbolism, which is also why Jesus spoke in parables, and why our own temple ceremony is the way it is.

Dude I have to say with that big old “Catholic” down there and the Tiber swim team thing-- man I find this comment disturbing and just about offensive.

I mean I appreciate you wanting to play both sides of the fence and grabbing paradigms or whatever you say you do, but there are just some things that are too much

I would like to hear you talk about the priesthood sometime and how you justify being on both sides of the fence on that one. And please don’t tell us all that you go to the Mormon temple and take catholic communion both – dude you might get tarred and feathered!

Even I have been to Catholic mass with my mom, but I would never take communion out of respect for the Catholics even if it would mean nothing to me. I even kinda genuflect just to be respectful

 

[why_me]

If it only matters ‘how God is worshipped’ then God wouldn’t have his prophets spill so much ink on what his nature is like. You’re only giving us your personal opinion because this topic makes you uncomfortable. If you care about somebody, in this case God, you’ll care about learning and understanding all you can about him. Your indifference to the matter is a part of your ‘worship’.

I am just talking reality. I cannot see god geniunely minding just how he is worshipped by mormons or catholics. The world at this moment is pretty srewed up. I do think that god has other things on his mind than the way mormons worship him. To my knowledge, mormons are very respectful to god and attempt to live his commandments.

And that is okay in my book.

 

[why_me]

I think that whyme does not realize that priests purchase their own vestments out of their own meager salaries. I know of none who can afford to buy gold-trimmed vestments. Occasionally a priest will receive a set of vestments as a gift from friends or family, but that is the exception rather than the rule, and most priests come from families of modest means.

You’d think that someone who hangs out with Catholic clergy and religious all the time would know that.

That was not my point at all. The early church was not wearing gold and colorful vestments since the early christians were poor. I am sure that no distinctions were made among the people. However, I can see the early church blessing the sacrament as the catholics do or holding a service as the mormons do. But I cannot see the early christians doing what the orthodox do.

And that was my point about my previous post about the issue.

 

[why_me]

this is completely inaccurate. LDS sacrament meetings NEVER have all the people partcipating in the blessing of the eucharist. in fact there ISN’T a eucharist in an LDS service because they don’t believe in that. they have a “symbolic remembrance” at best. Catholic masses don’t have the people in gold robes. most people come as they are. the priests wear robes. very few wear actual gold. LDS services mandate certain clothes. so what is it that you are trying to say? the vestments that catholic priests wear today are based on those of the early christians. they may have been poor but they managed to provide for the presbyters. you can tell that from the new testament.

we can see for ourselves from available documents that early christians held services much like the catholic and orthodox liturgies of today. that’s how we got those liturgies. LDS services on the other hand are a mixture of 19th century american protestantism, sidney rigdon’s ideas on how a church should be run and a few minor modifications over the years from SLC.

After Christ died and the apostles set up churches, the service was like the orthdox service with icons and candles and gold robes? I seriously doubt it. The early christians were humble people who worshiped god. I tend to think that the early christians were too humble for fancy ornaments.

But like I said, I can see the early christians blessing the eucharist the way the catholics do but I can also see them holding a service the lds way too.

 

[why_me]

May God have mercy on anyone who would cause someone else harm for wanting to fully embrace their own religion(s). And it’s not like one of them is dirty or anything.

If there is a problem, then the problem is that you are active in both faiths. And most catholics here would not like it and most mormons would not understand it.

And so, the problem is one of bipolarism with two faiths negating the other faith.

 

[why_me]

You brother, are a very good man with a very powerful spirit and testimony and it is a privilege to associate with you here. I would hope we could meet one day.

I agree! It is good to have him here. But it is also good that you are sticking around.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Dude I have to say with that big old “Catholic” down there and the Tiber swim team thing-- man I find this comment disturbing and just about offensive.

I mean I appreciate you wanting to play both sides of the fence and grabbing paradigms or whatever you say you do, but there are just some things that are too much

What’s disturbing and maybe offensive about saying they both have a lot of symbolism?

 

[majick275]

After Christ died and the apostles set up churches, the service was like the orthdox service with icons and candles and gold robes? I seriously doubt it. The early christians were humble people who worshiped god. I tend to think that the early christians were too humble for fancy ornaments.

But like I said, I can see the early christians blessing the eucharist the way the catholics do but I can also see them holding a service the lds way too.

the early christians were heavily influenced by judaism as that is where they came from. a reading of the old testament descriptions of temple worship shows quite a few “fancy ornaments”. are you going to claim that LDS temples are too humble for fancy ornaments?

you seem to be choosing to ignore history in this case and just claim your opinion as fact. we have written accounts of early christians. we know what their services were like.

 

[majick275]

I am just talking reality. I cannot see god geniunely minding just how he is worshipped by mormons or catholics. The world at this moment is pretty srewed up. I do think that god has other things on his mind than the way mormons worship him. To my knowledge, mormons are very respectful to god and attempt to live his commandments.

And that is okay in my book.

and yet God is very specific in scripture as to how he is to be worshiped. why do you think that is?

 

[majick275]

If there is a problem, then the problem is that you are active in both faiths. And most catholics here would not like it and most mormons would not understand it.

And so, the problem is one of bipolarism with two faiths negating the other faith.

you have just described yourself

 

[PaulDupre]

It’s the procession, the bell’s, the incense, the sprinkling and the vestments - the theatrics of it all. If Jesus were here would he do it this way ?? This is what I was asking 2C

Ever studied the Torah? Yahweh (the pre-incarnate Jesus) commanded lots of ritual and incense and vestments - “theatrics” if you will. Apparently He likes it, and recognizes that we need it.

The elements of the mass, except the liturgy of the Eucharist, come from the Jewish synagogue and temple.

We know exactly how the early Christians worshipped - they wrote it down. It was Catholic, not Mormon.

 

[nebula]

It’s the procession, the bell’s, the incense, the sprinkling and the vestments - the theatrics of it all. If Jesus were here would he do it this way ?? This is what I was asking 2C

ronald,

Where’s the evidence that Jesus built a mormon style temple with all four floors… speaking of pomp and procession. When you show me the 1st C celestial room I will be impressed.

 

[nebula]

I am just talking reality. I cannot see god geniunely minding just how he is worshipped by mormons or catholics. The world at this moment is pretty srewed up. I do think that god has other things on his mind than the way mormons worship him. To my knowledge, mormons are very respectful to god and attempt to live his commandments.

And that is okay in my book.

why me,

Right, because you figure your personal opinion is the way reality is. Who cares if Mormons and Catholics are talking about two DIFFERENT beings… let’s all hold hands.

How do you KNOW that is what God thinks? WHy should anyone accept YOUR opinion? For that matter, why should you.

 

[nebula]

Dude I have to say with that big old “Catholic” down there and the Tiber swim team thing-- man I find this comment disturbing and just about offensive.

I mean I appreciate you wanting to play both sides of the fence and grabbing paradigms or whatever you say you do, but there are just some things that are too much

I would like to hear you talk about the priesthood sometime and how you justify being on both sides of the fence on that one. And please don’t tell us all that you go to the Mormon temple and take catholic communion both – dude you might get tarred and feathered!

Even I have been to Catholic mass with my mom, but I would never take communion out of respect for the Catholics even if it would mean nothing to me. I even kinda genuflect just to be respectful

mf,

I’m genuinely happy to say that we found something we agree on.

 

[why_me]

why me,

Right, because you figure your personal opinion is the way reality is. Who cares if Mormons and Catholics are talking about two DIFFERENT beings… let’s all hold hands.

:grouphug: <<<< I agree. We should all hold hands and stress what we all have in common… a love of god.

 

[why_me]

why me,

How do you KNOW that is what God thinks? WHy should anyone accept YOUR opinion? For that matter, why should you.

Lets take a look at the world that is at this moment going through a financial crisis and a world that seems to be divided as what god is. Plus, we can add a secular bent to the mix from outside atheists and nihilists. And the increase in poverty and marginalization. Plus insecurity and homelessness etc matched by greed, self love, individualism. etc. .

I do think that god has much on his plate at this moment. And yet, mormons bow their heads several times a day to give god thanks for all the blessings that they have received and for the opportunity to be alive on this earth. And of course, they pray for peace, joy, light etc. in the world. Among other things.

 

[why_me]

That’s what I was thinking.

I don’t have a temple recommend and I am not considered an active member of the lds church. I pay no tithing too. But I will defend the lds church because it is a force for good in the world and because it has much to offer humanity.

 

[nebula]

Lets take a look at the world that is at this moment going through a financial crisis and a world that seems to be divided as what god is. Plus, we can add a secular bent to the mix from outside atheists and nihilists. And the increase in poverty and marginalization. Plus insecurity and homelessness etc matched by greed, self love, individualism. etc. .

I do think that god has much on his plate at this moment. And yet, mormons bow their heads several times a day to give god thanks for all the blessings that they have received and for the opportunity to be alive on this earth. And of course, they pray for peace, joy, light etc. in the world. Among other things.

why me,

If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. I’m becoming increasingly convinced that God has to touch you for you to have a passion for him.

Muslims bow down to God five times a day. Satanists have their devotions, as do Hindus and Buddhists. Is it really all the same difference to you?