Mormons: Why don't you pray to Jesus?

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Originally Posted by majick275
I think there is a good question here but I don’t think we have necessarily asked it well and thus have generated a little confusion.
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LDS praying to heavenly Father and/or folding their arms for prayer is not in my mind problematic.
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If we want to address the fact that they ONLY pray to the father and NOT to jesus or the holy spirit then that’s a valid discussion.
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I THINK (please correct if misspeak here) that what we are trying to discuss here is that the LDS theology gives a VERY different meaning regarding who and what “heavenly father” is. in that case they pray to Elohim. an exalted man who is the literal progenitor of their spirit (soul). while mormons believe that each person is an “eternal being” in that they have always existed as an “intelligence” they require literal, divine parents to “birth” their spirit. Elohim then is the literal father of all earthly spirits. he DIRECTED the creation of the earth which included the creation of physical bodies for the first humans who then birth the ongoing bodies for the spirits that come to earth. the actual creation was performed by Jesus and Adam (Jehovah and Michael). resurrected men who lived worthily can become “exalted” and then go through this process as “heavenly fathers” themselves in an an endless progression/regression that has always existed and will never end.
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The quote above was taken from a thread about the Mormon title of God found here. This quote below was taken from the same thread and was a reply to the above quote.
LaMar said:
This is an excellent summary. The only thing I’d clarify is that Elohim is known to Jews and Muslims (not Christians). Modern Mormons identify Him as The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Re: Jesus, you’re absolutely correct. Most Mormons agree on very little, but one thing we all agree on is that Jesus is not God, and we do not pray to him. I would never want to pray to him and I’m confident that most Mormons would probably share this sentiment.
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I started a new thread on the subject as to not derail the other thread.

Why would Mormons not pray to Jesus? If they wish to consider themselves as Christians why would they not pray to Jesus, or believe of Him as God? After all, the formal name of the Mormon religion is “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.” If they believe they are the Church of Jesus Christ, why wouldn’t you pray to Him, if you were a Mormon?

This makes little sense to me how Mormons could consider themselves as the true faith, yet cannot acknowledge the person whom their religion is named after.

Discuss!

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew
 
Mormons pray to “Heavenly Father” but they say their prayers “in the name of Jesus Christ” ~ the closing words are always “in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen”. I take that to mean that they trust that their petitions to Heavenly Father (God) will be heard because they are making them in the name of Jesus Christ. It’s as if Jesus is giving them access. But they don’t pray directly to Jesus, at least I’ve never witnessed that, nor have any of my Mormon friends ever told me they did.

While Mormons believe that God and Jesus are separate personages (each with separate bodies of “flesh and bone”) they believe that They, along with the Holy Spirit, are “one in purpose” so they have their own “Trinity” of sorts, it’s just a different Trinity than we understand the Trinity to be. I’ve even heard the word “Trinity” used by Mormons in limited circumstances.
 
Mormons pray to the Father in the name of Christ because that is the established pattern Jesus gave in the Holy Land as recorded in the Bible and in the New World as recorded in the Book of Mormon. That is also the pattern set by LDS prophets starting with Joseph Smith. So, Mormon behavior in this regard is influenced by holy writ and leadership that is not seen as binding for others. Those would be the reasons.

That said, in the Book of Mormon there is a beautiful scene in which the people do pray directly to Christ and he commands them to pray on and then he turns and prays to the Father in their behalf. But when he instructed them the day previous he distinctly told them to “pray unto the Father in my name.” I think there can be multiple lessons being taught in the scene-- a sincere prayer will never be rejected, Christ is our connection to the Father, this is the only recorded scene in which people pray directly to Jesus and it is explained as being because he was in their midst at the time, the Father and the Son are separate persons (Christ is not talking to himself when he prays) but so much one in purpose and glory that it is trivial to try to separate our worship and adornment.
 
stokemeister said:
Mormons pray to the Father in the name of Christ because that is the established pattern Jesus gave in the Holy Land as recorded in the Bible and in the New World as recorded in the Book of Mormon. That is also the pattern set by LDS prophets starting with Joseph Smith. So, Mormon behavior in this regard is influenced by holy writ and leadership that is not seen as binding for others. Those would be the reasons.

That said, in the Book of Mormon there is a beautiful scene in which the people do pray directly to Christ and he commands them to pray on and then he turns and prays to the Father in their behalf. But when he instructed them the day previous he distinctly told them to “pray unto the Father in my name.” I think there can be multiple lessons being taught in the scene-- a sincere prayer will never be rejected, Christ is our connection to the Father, this is the only recorded scene in which people pray directly to Jesus and it is explained as being because he was in their midst at the time, the Father and the Son are separate persons (Christ is not talking to himself when he prays) but so much one in purpose and glory that it is trivial to try to separate our worship and adornment.
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Now this was a good post. Welcome to catholic forums. 🙂
 
Harpazo said:
I thought you were Catholic?:confused:

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew
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The poster gave a good mormon response which made a lot of sense. In the end, mormons do so because they believe that god wants the prayer to be said that way. Nothing with that.
 
Harpazo said:
I thought you were Catholic?:confused:

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew
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I thought Catholics believed in the trinity? If Jesus is simply a manifestation of God, then what difference does it make?

The contention would only be coherent if the sentiment suggested that Jesus was a higher God in the Catholic pantheon of gods than God-the-father, and that our prayers to who you call God-the-father were lacking in that you felt we were praying to a lesser God.

I’d be interested in an expansion or an explanation of the problem, from your perspective.
 
Well, I don’t see anywhere in the bible where the early Christians prayed to the Holy Spirit? They may have received the Holy Spirit and prayed in Him, but never to Him. I also can’t recall seeing them worshipping the Holy Spirit.
 
MH84 said:
Well, I don’t see anywhere in the bible where the early Christians prayed to the Holy Spirit? They may have received the Holy Spirit and prayed in Him, but never to Him. I also can’t recall seeing them worshipping the Holy Spirit.
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Good point. 👍
 
Well, if the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate personages, like mormons believe, then it would only make sense that they would pray to the Father through the Son, right? Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the light. No man cometh unto the Father but by me” and also taught to pray on his name. Jesus also himself prayed to the Father, and being a disciple of christ, we follow his example.
 
SamTheMan said:
Well, if the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate personages, like mormons believe, then it would only make sense that they would pray to the Father through the Son, right? Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the light. No man cometh unto the Father but by me” and also taught to pray on his name. Jesus also himself prayed to the Father, and being a disciple of christ, we follow his example.
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Mormons do not believe that they are three separate “personages” but rather are Three separate deities. For their “father god” was once completely human as was Jesus and the holy spirit. They believe also in the apotheosis of currently mortal men into gods of their own planet.

If I start my own religion and teach that my dog is the true creator of the universe and my dog’s name is Jesus that does not make mine a Christian religion.
 
cthulhubryan said:
Mormons do not believe that they are three separate “personages” but rather are Three separate deities. For their “father god” was once completely human as was Jesus and the holy spirit. They believe also in the apotheosis of currently mortal men into gods of their own planet.

If I start my own religion and teach that my dog is the true creator of the universe and my dog’s name is Jesus that does not make mine a Christian religion.
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First off, you obviously have no idea what mormons believe, and second off, do you even know what this thread is about??
 
SamTheMan said:
First off, you obviously have no idea what mormons believe, and second off, do you even know what this thread is about??
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Actually, Sam, that explanation is not all that far off of what Mormon theology looks like, at least from the outside. It may not sit well with a Mormon who reads it, but you have to concede that Mormons do believe that God/Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are 3 separate and distinct “personages” ~ to use the Mormon word. This is Mormon Doctrine. It is also precisely why Mormon baptisms are not accepted by other Christian faiths ~ because the Mormon concept of the Godhead is so radically different from other faiths.

The logical extension of a belief in eternal progression is that there will be many gods. This is a direct contradiction of any concept of monotheism. Some will describe Mormons as polytheists, others as henotheists. However the description is made, the Mormon concept of the Godhead remains radically different from other Christian faiths. Coupled with the belief in eternal progression Mormons are WAY OUT of the purview of other Christian faiths. That’s just a fact. It may be a fact you don’t like, but that doesn’t change the fact.

Unlike Mormons, other Christian faiths also pray to Jesus because the rest of us believe that He is God, not some separate “personage” from God, through whom we may have access to God, but otherwise not worshipped. This is also a distinction of Mormons from other faiths and proceeds directly from the difference in the concept of the Godhead.

This forum is a place where people discuss religion. Not every discussion is all warm and fuzzy, but the goal is to have a free exchange of ideas.
 
MelanieAnne said:
The logical extension of a belief in eternal progression is that there will be many gods. This is a direct contradiction of any concept of monotheism. Some will describe Mormons as polytheists, others as henotheists. However the description is made, the Mormon concept of the Godhead remains radically different from other Christian faiths. Coupled with the belief in eternal progression Mormons are WAY OUT of the purview of other Christian faiths. That’s just a fact. It may be a fact you don’t like, but that doesn’t change the fact.
Polytheism implies the worship of these gods, and the mormon doctrine that you can become a god isn’t doctrine about how we worship people who have become gods. The doctrine of eternal progression has nothing to do with our worship of The Father (monotheism). Polytheism is like what Hindu’s do, which is far from what mormons do.
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SamTheMan said:
Polytheism implies the worship of these gods, and the mormon doctrine that you can become a god isn’t doctrine about how we worship people who have become gods. The doctrine of eternal progression has nothing to do with our worship of The Father (monotheism). Polytheism is like what Hindu’s do, which is far from what mormons do.

By the way, Mormons do believe Jesus is God. He was the Jehovah of the old testament, he was a spiritual being then, and is a glorified and resurrected being now. The Father gave him full stewardship over the earth, that’s why Jehovah was worshipped and that’s why it is through Jesus we have access to the Father. When Jehovah said things like “I the Lord am God, and there is no God besides me” it was a teaching against idol worship, which was a big deal at the time those revelations were given. So anyways, that’s why the Father is prayed to through Jesus.

You don’t think this discussion is warm and fuzzy? Because I sure do.
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Sam, your reaction to another poster didn’t appear all that warm and fuzzy, but my purpose in mentioning that is that these discussions are often rather pointed, and some people are not necessarily all that comfortable with such things. It was a general statement, not necessarily pertaining to every post on this particular thread.

Since you mentioned Mormons do not believe in polytheism because, apparently, you may acknowledge other gods you just don’t worship them, let’s take that a step further. If God/Heavenly Father is the God of this world, and He was once as we were, then presumably He Himself worships or otherwise is subordinate to some other predecessor God, perhaps of some other world. Likewise Jesus, under this sort of scenario, has earned His full Godhood here on Earth and now is eligible to be the God/Heavenly Father of some other world. And Mormons, here on this world, have the opportunity to progress to Godhood themselves, and eventually become Gods of their own worlds. Do they still worship the God of this world once they’ve become the God of their own world? Or does that end when they become Gods themselves?

You see, the idea of eternal progression brings up all sorts of things that most Christians would find scandalous, and, at the very least, far outside the definition of monotheism. We worship Jesus because He IS God, not because He is some sort of conduit to God. We pray to Him for the same reason.
 
The answer to the question: Because the Lord Jesus Christ himself commanded: “Ye must always pray unto the Father in my name.” 3 Nephi 18:19.

As to the Godhead: The Godhead is made up of God, the Eternal Father, and his Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. The true doctrine of the Godhead was lost in the apostasy that followed the Savior’s mortal ministry and the deaths of His Apostles. This doctrine began to be restored when 14-year-old Joseph Smith received his First Vision. From the Prophet’s account of the First Vision and from his other teachings, we know that the members of the Godhead are three separate beings. The Father and the Son have tangible bodies of flesh and bones, and the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit.

I hope the foregoing is useful. It is not apparent to me that eternal progression has anything to do with why Latter-day Saints do not pray to Jesus.
 
James_McMichael said:
I hope the foregoing is useful. It is not apparent to me that eternal progression has anything to do with why Latter-day Saints do not pray to Jesus.
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Eternal progression has a bearing on the understanding of the Godhead, which in turn has a bearing on prayer.
 
SamTheMan said:
First off, you obviously have no idea what mormons believe, and second off, do you even know what this thread is about??
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Sorry, but I am afraid I probably know more than most. I had the King Follet discourse explained to me by a member of the upper quorum.

This thread is about Mormons not praying to Jesus. If they do not understand who the real Jesus is then it is central to the theme of this thread.
 
James_McMichael said:
The answer to the question: Because the Lord Jesus Christ himself commanded: “Ye must always pray unto the Father in my name.” 3 Nephi 18:19.

As to the Godhead: The Godhead is made up of God, the Eternal Father, and his Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. The true doctrine of the Godhead was lost in the apostasy that followed the Savior’s mortal ministry and the deaths of His Apostles.
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:rolleyes:

We just went through a whole thread where Mormons were unable to provide any evidence for this imagined apostasy. Sorry, but you have been deceived.
 
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