Mortal sin at death

[palmas85]

Such a belief is heresy. If you really believe that then I hope you are not receiving Communion.

If you die in a state of mortal sin you go to Hell.
Purgatory is only for those who are saved (i.e. are in a state of grace when they die) but need purifying before going on to heaven.

Thistle my old friend, you are starting to sound like a rabid traditionalist.

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: PURGATORY:bigyikes: :bigyikes:

It wouldn’t surprise me that more than a few of our posters here thouroughly reject the concept of Purgatory in its’ entirity as being incompatible with modern man and new ideas in theology.

I do hope that you are doing well and that all is OK down there in my home country.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Peary,
First, please learn to use the quote separation. The way your response looks, it makes it look like some of your answers are mine. Since they are totally theologically wrong, Pleas learn to use them.

Let me assure, it is not the Lord who has led you to these incorrect theological conclusions. Don’t take just my word for it. Ask a priest, whether purgatory removes mortal sin. Any priest who knows his theology will tell you no it does not. We have the 10 Commandments for a reason. They are not the 10 suggestions. They are commandments. If one dies in mortal sin, they have lost heaven. Please, Please inquire with priests. Ask your bishop. You need to get this straight. Where did you get these ideas. This is not Church teaching. I tell you this out of genuine concern. What is your theology background and where did you get it. I can tell you without any reservation, this is not Church teaching nor Catholic theology. Pleae hear me.

 

[coda]

That suggests that a small theft isn’t a mortal sin. Stealing anything from anyone with full knowledge of what you’re doing is a mortal sin. Anything that falls under the jurisdiction of the ten commandments (i.e. I shall not steal) is mortal.

That is incorrect. “Small” thefts that do not do damage to the other person are not considered grave matter…Theft gravity depends wholly on what{and what amount} is stolen, how it is stolen, from whom it is stolen, how it affects the person you stole it from and your motivation for stealing it. Check the catechism…

 

[coda]

Thistle my old friend, you are starting to sound like a rabid traditionalist.

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: PURGATORY:bigyikes: :bigyikes:

It wouldn’t surprise me that more than a few of our posters here thouroughly reject the concept of Purgatory in its’ entirity as being incompatible with modern man and new ideas in theology.

I do hope that you are doing well and that all is OK down there in my home country.

I wonder how Christ feels about these “new ideas in theology” as opposed to the truth?

 

[Methodi]

Hi all! Wow, I’ve been away a looong time. New job and new kids are the biggest reasons (not that anyone was inquiring). At any rate, I’ve a question on what I take to be a fundamental teaching of Catholicism.

I’m sure I’ve read in a number of places that if a Catholic dies with unconfessed mortal sin tainting his soul, he will be condemned for eternity. I’m just wondering whether that teaching is correct, as I’ve stated it. And, I’m also wondering whether it doesn’t seem a bit odd to any other Catholics out there? I suppose I’m bothered mostly by the sense in which it seems to be a bit merciless and arbitrary.

By arbitrary, I mean, does it not seem strange to think that one could live saintly for many many years, commit a serious sin and, before he could confess it, he gets into a car accident, say, and dies instantly. I guess it just seems more rational to think that the whole of one’s life must be taken into account at judgment.

What do you think? Anyone out there sympathetic with my concerns here?

I agree 100% with what You said, I cant believe that God is that merciless

 

[mattkubes]

I agree 100% with what You said, I cant believe that God is that merciless

It has nothing to do with God being merciless - no, God is Mercy and Love. But He is also Just. One who willfully rejects the Creator in favour of the creation has made their choice, and God, who loves us infinitely more than we can imagine, respects this willful separation. As I’ve already mentioned, for the person who has killed grace in the soul, the idea of spending eternity with Grace Himself is unthinkable.

Remember, we can’t know for certain who is and isn’t in a state of mortal sin, but God has told us that those who die in this state will not enter Heaven. You can place divine faith in that reality.

Luckily, God gave us the wonderful gift of the sacraments to strengthen us against sin, and the sacrament of Confession for those times when we mess up anyways.

 

[Methodi]

It has nothing to do with God being merciless - no, God is Mercy and Love. But He is also Just. One who willfully rejects the Creator in favour of the creation has made their choice, and God, who loves us infinitely more than we can imagine, respects this willful separation. As I’ve already mentioned, for the person who has killed grace in the soul, the idea of spending eternity with Grace Himself is unthinkable.

Remember, we can’t know for certain who is and isn’t in a state of mortal sin, but God has told us that those who die in this state will not enter Heaven. You can place divine faith in that reality.

Luckily, God gave us the wonderful gift of the sacraments to strengthen us against sin, and the sacrament of Confession for those times when we mess up anyways.

God didnt give us our sexuality & other desires to totally suppress them, to do that causes frustration, we are all unique, created by God no two people are alike, we all think different, God knows this , he knows Human nature is weak, & will fall, over & over again. Jesus has attoned for the sins of man. The way we are is the way God wants us , He loves us unconditionally, of course we have to acknowledge him & ask his mercy, That is all he expects

 

[mattkubes]

God didnt give us our sexuality & other desires to totally suppress them, to do that causes frustration

And no one is suggesting you do that, just that sexual acts have a proper context in which they must take place. Actually, this hasn’t even been brought up in the thread so far…or I might be missing something.

we are all unique, created by God no two people are alike, we all think different, God knows this , he knows Human nature is weak, & will fall, over & over again

No disagreement here.

Jesus has attoned for the sins of man. The way we are is the way God wants us , He loves us unconditionally, of course we have to acknowledge him & ask his mercy, That is all he expects

You learned that Jesus atoned for our sins in the scriptures, but those same scriptures reveal the way that we are to seek out forgiveness after baptism - confession. We also learn in those same scriptures that Hell is real, that people go there, and that it is easy for humans to stray from the narrow path.

When you say “The way we are is the way God wants us,” it goes without saying that that excludes sin. Actually, I don’t see how that makes sense in any context…God wants us in Heaven with Him. He doesn’t want us rejecting Him, hurting our neighbours, and despising the Truth (and we’re all guilty of these things to some degree).

The scriptures and 2000 years of Tradition are clear - we’re sinners and we need God’s help. We can also choose to reject God, blinding ourselves to His Truth now and in eternity. We, as Catholics, need to pray for final perseverance and make use of Confession on a regular basis…it’s an infinitely valuable gift.

 

[Methodi]

And no one is suggesting you do that, just that sexual acts have a proper context in which they must take place. Actually, this hasn’t even been brought up in the thread so far…or I might be missing something.

No disagreement here.

You learned that Jesus atoned for our sins in the scriptures, but those same scriptures reveal the way that we are to seek out forgiveness after baptism - confession. We also learn in those same scriptures that Hell is real, that people go there, and that it is easy for humans to stray from the narrow path.

When you say “The way we are is the way God wants us,” it goes without saying that that excludes sin. Actually, I don’t see how that makes sense in any context…God wants us in Heaven with Him. He doesn’t want us rejecting Him, hurting our neighbours, and despising the Truth (and we’re all guilty of these things to some degree).

The scriptures and 2000 years of Tradition are clear - we’re sinners and we need God’s help. We can also choose to reject God, blinding ourselves to His Truth now and in eternity. We, as Catholics, need to pray for final perseverance and make use of Confession on a regular basis…it’s an infinitely valuable gift.

I dont reject God, I probably pray to him more than the average person, Of course i am not perfect & never will be & I have told that to The Lord. But just take a look around at the behavior of most people & go figure, Its the way God wants it, we cant all walk around with a halo & twiddle our thumbs, man is weak God knows that, & he is always ready to take us back even when we fail

 

[LilyM]

I dont reject God, I probably pray to him more than the average person, Of course i am not perfect & never will be & I have told that to The Lord. But just take a look around at the behavior of most people & go figure, Its the way God wants it, we cant all walk around with a halo & twiddle our thumbs, man is weak God knows that, & he is always ready to take us back even when we fail

Jesus said ‘be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect’. THAT is how we were designed, and that is how God wants us to be. He doesn’t want us to be sinners, our sin wounds Him, it caused His death, how could He WANT us to do that?

He will take us back ONLY if we recognise our sins for what they are, truly repent and try to sin no more. Many many sinners fail on one or more of those counts.

 

[Methodi]

Jesus said ‘be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect’. THAT is how we were designed, and that is how God wants us to be. He doesn’t want us to be sinners, our sin wounds Him, it caused His death, how could He WANT us to do that?

He will take us back ONLY if we recognise our sins for what they are, truly repent and try to sin no more. Many many sinners fail on one or more of those counts.

No, we were not designed that way it takes a lifetime of work to try & be perfect & most of us never acheive it, But its Ok, God only asks that we at least try

 

[mattkubes]

No, we were not designed that way it takes a lifetime of work to try & be perfect & most of us never acheive it, But its Ok, God only asks that we at least try

And when we mess up, we seek His forgiveness in Confession (just as Jesus told us to).

 

[LilyM]

No, we were not designed that way it takes a lifetime of work to try & be perfect & most of us never acheive it, But its Ok, God only asks that we at least try

So Jesus is a liar then? He told us to be perfect knowing that we couldn’t achieve it?

No. God doesn’t lie. We CAN be perfect - Mary was. The only things preventing us are original sin, concupiscence and lack of trust in God’s ability to free us of those two.

 

[Methodi]

And when we mess up, we seek His forgiveness in Confession (just as Jesus told us to).

Amen Matt!

 

[Methodi]

So Jesus is a liar then? He told us to be perfect knowing that we couldn’t achieve it?

No. God doesn’t lie. We CAN be perfect - Mary was. The only things preventing us are original sin, concupiscence and lack of trust in God’s ability to free us of those two.

Thats right I dont think we can achieve it & so Does The Lord, Thats why he allowed His Only Son Jesus to attone for the sins of mankind

 

[peary]

Peary,
First, please learn to use the quote separation. The way your response looks, it makes it look like some of your answers are mine. Since they are totally theologically wrong, Pleas learn to use them.

Let me assure, it is not the Lord who has led you to these incorrect theological conclusions. Don’t take just my word for it. Ask a priest, whether purgatory removes mortal sin. Any priest who knows his theology will tell you no it does not. We have the 10 Commandments for a reason. They are not the 10 suggestions. They are commandments. If one dies in mortal sin, they have lost heaven. Please, Please inquire with priests. Ask your bishop. You need to get this straight. Where did you get these ideas. This is not Church teaching. I tell you this out of genuine concern. What is your theology background and where did you get it. I can tell you without any reservation, this is not Church teaching nor Catholic theology. Pleae hear me.

Jesus gave only ONE commandment: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. That about sums it up in my book.

 

[LilyM]

Thats right I dont think we can achieve it & so Does The Lord, Thats why he allowed His Only Son Jesus to attone for the sins of mankind

In other words you DO think He’s a liar. He didn’t say ‘sit back, trust in Me to make you perfect, you don’t need to do anything, I’ll do it all for you’.

He said for US to be perfect, which we can be when we actively co-operate with Him. He requires a serious effort from us and relies on us to make that effort!

 

[FanChan]

Jesus gave only ONE commandment: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. That about sums it up in my book.

It thoroughly sums up the 10 commandments, as well, considering Christ never went against them. Jesus’ Great Commandment doesn’t cancel out the 10 commandments, it reinforces them.

As for the stealing of small sums that don’t necessarily hurt the other person - if you’re stealing with the intent to steal from that person, it doesn’t really matter what you take from them, or if it hurts them in the long run. If you dislike someone and decide to steal a dollar from them when they’re not looking in your own little way to get back at them, or if you see someone who has a lot of change and a little bit of greed in you says go ahead, take a penny, it won’t hurt them, and it’ll totally help you out at some point, and you take it, you’re honestly telling me that’s not a mortal sin? The mention of one’s situation possibly excusing a person for stealing seems somewhat thin to me as well. If getting in that situation was out of your hands, then God will provide. An opportunity to steal for what you need is not a divine provision.

 

[LilyM]

Jesus gave only ONE commandment: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. That about sums it up in my book.

No, actually He gave the rich young man the Ten all over again. And loved the rich young man precisely because he had kept them from his youth.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Jesus gave only ONE commandment: LOVE OTHERS AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. That about sums it up in my book.

Do yourself a favor and re-read this scriptural passage. He said these were the greatest. He did not do away with the other 10. If you want to give facts, give them all. If you want to be guided by them, observe them all, and not be selective. Ask a priest. Are you afraid to?