Moscow Mitch McConnell

[dvdjs]

Weekly Standard nosedives and goes out of business, exponent for the Iraq war. Sure, I really treasure his word.

Leaving the ad hominems aside, … Oops, nothing left.

 

[dvdjs]

Mueller was rather unconvincing.

The facts are there, and in Senate report, and in Wray’s testimony. Sorry that the entertainment value was weak. Sorrier still that that matters.

Andrew Sullivan: The American System Is Already Failing

The Mueller hearings told us almost nothing that we didn’t know already. We knew that the president welcomed assistance from a foreign power in order to win an election, and has fawned over his political patron in this endeavor, Vladimir Putin, since he became president. We knew that though he was not competent enough to construct a conspiracy, he was eager to collude with a foreign foe to defeat his domestic one. And we knew that he then lied about it as baldly as he lies about almost everything, and tried repeatedly to obstruct the investigation into the affair. His attorney general then blatantly lied about the key conclusions of the Mueller report, distorting the public debate for weeks as he kept the contents under wraps, and then bet that Americans, with our gnat-like attention spans, would simply move on.

We also knew that in contemporary America, none of these facts matter in the slightest. The notion that the average citizen should care deeply about the rule of law and constitutional norms — and even actively defend them — has become terribly passé. Now, all that truly matters is whether we are entertained by someone who can command televisual excitement the way Trump does on a daily, hourly basis. If he can’t, whatever the underlying facts, no one gives a …

 

[JonNC]

The Mueller report shows no conspiracy collusion. We know that the Clinton campaign paid for the dossier put together by Steele and Russians. We know that the Trump Tower meeting was orchestrated by Russian lawyer, Veselnitskaya, who was in contact with Simpson (Fusion GPS) before and after the Trump Tower meeting.

There is a lot we know, no thanks to the man whose name appears on the title of the report.

 

[dvdjs]

The Mueller report shows no conspiracy collusion

It shows no conspiracy for which a legal case can be made. It show much collusion. You use of “conspiracy collusion” is peculiar. (So is your equivocation on “Russian”.). I accept the fact that the repeated encounters between the Trump campaign and agents acting on behalf of the Russian government do not under current law do not constitute criminal conspiarcy and do not require reporting. At the time of the release of the report, I posted here that I think we need more stringent laws, an had hoped that we could all agree at least on a mandatory reporting requirement. There is bipartisan supporty for that. But McConnell is blocking it.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

Isreal probably opposes this

Edit: and China

 

[JonNC]

It shows no conspiracy for which a legal case can be made. It show much collusion.

All that matters is conspiracy collusion. By a colloquial definition, Clinton was deeply involved in collusion with foreign nationals. It is delusional to think that this is unique to 2016 and Trump.
This is why the entire investigation is a fraud.

You use of “conspiracy collusion” is peculiar. (So is your equivocation on “Russian”.).

Far less peculiar that Mueller claiming the most obvious example of collusion is Clinton with Fusion GPS was outside his purview. It was outside the intent of the investigation in the first place: overturn or undermine the election.
And no equivocation, either. Veselnitskaya was working with Fusion GPS and therefore the Clinton campaign all the while having connections with the Kremlin.

I accept the fact that the repeated encounters between the Trump campaign and agents acting on behalf of the Russian government do not under current law do not constitute criminal conspiarcy and do not require reporting.

Then what’s the point? Oh, I know. A coordinated attack on a sitting president.

At the time of the release of the report, I posted here that I think we need more stringent laws, an had hoped that we could all agree at least on a mandatory reporting requirement. There is bipartisan supporty for that. But McConnell is blocking it.

I have not read what McConnell’s reasons are, other than the Joe Scarborough/“Pravda” party line, but I favor stricter rules, depending on what they are.

 

[Thinker_Doer]

It shows no conspiracy for which a legal case can be made.

It would be naive to look for a bilateral agreement, signed and properly notarized, in which both parties enumerate their mutual desires, upcoming actions and hoped for rewards. A simple grunt, or wink is sufficient to establish mutual understanding. So the “collusion”, which is not even a legal term cannot be established directly. Of course, if the witnesses, their notes could be examined, those might shed some light on the “conspiracy” (which is a legal term). But these are all hidden or destroyed at the command of the conspirator.

The obstruction of justice is a totally different issue. The necessary elements have been established, and the crimes are there for everyone to see. Of course Trump fights tooth and nail to keep them hidden, even suing the state of New York and the whole Congress. Ordering his subordinates to defy subpoenas - illegally, of course. So the charge of “obstruction of justice” (where the intent is sufficient, it does not have to be successful) is established beyond any reasonable doubt.

That is the case. Now we shall see, how it works out.

 

[Thinker_Doer]

Of course “Moscow Mitch” and the Repubs. don’t want clean and fair elections–they would lose. They want to suppress the vote for as many years as they can because they know the national demographics are trending against them. Sadly, the Party of Lincoln has become the Party of Trump–run and pretty much supported by a bunch of old white guys who are both angry and afraid of the future. Eventually, the clock is going to run out on them in most parts of the country. Unfortunately, in the meantime, they are doing their best to make sure the next generation ends up with a broke government (22 trillion dollars in debt and counting) and broken environment.

So very true and so very sad.

 

[JonNC]

Of course “Moscow Mitch” and the Repubs. don’t want clean and fair elections–they would lose.

The last election was clean and fair, except, of course, for the rigging of primaries by the DNC against Sanders, and the cheating in debates against Sanders, and the attempt to use Russian provided false information in a dossier.

 

[angel12]

Fake news.

Then you’ll be pointing out exactly which facts presented in these articles are “fake,” right?

 

[grotto]

Are the Democrats Russians in disguise? That would make sense.

 

[hvizsgyak]

Just read 40 pages of the Mueller Report and what I got from it was that voter confidence may have been affected by the Russians and that the Russians did look into the voter registrations in some states. My take on all that was Russian was checking to make sure the Democrats weren’t up to their old tricks of having the dead vote (check Illinois). Many times the report stated that the Russians DID NOT alter any of the election votes.

 

[hvizsgyak]

No, I don’t think I’m going to do that because it will pan out eventually in the news, it always does. Just keep an eye out for the small printed headline on page 12 or 1 minute news spot in the entertainment section of the news.

 

[Guinness]

Of course “Moscow Mitch” and the Repubs. don’t want clean and fair elections–they would lose.

Already setting up an excuse for 2020?

 

[Thinker_Doer]

However, the larger question is: If Trump loses, will he leave office or declare the election results fake, declare something like Marshall law and just stay put.

I think you wanted to say “martial law”, by declaring a national emergency and attempt to govern by “executive orders” using his favorite communication method of “twitter”. Unfortunately this is not impossible, but I hope that it will not happen. And it is also possible that his base supporters will stay with him, and that might even lead to some serious civil unrests. Scary prospects, indeed. We shall see.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

You never know. Hopefully he loses with more grace than the last loser… should he lose. What a spectacle that last one was, eh?

 

[angel12]

No, I don’t think I’m going to do that because it will pan out eventually in the news, it always does.

In other words, you don’t have any facts to refute, and your “fake news” accusation is baseless.
Thank you for admitting it.

 

[dvdjs]

My take on all that was Russian was checking to make sure the Democrats weren’t up to their old tricks of having the dead vote (check Illinois).

Really? What an ami
using idea that they should take an interest in that.

Many times the report stated that the Russians DID NOT alter any of the election votes.

I think that you mean, did not change ballots or tallies. But perhaps you can qupte some of the many times.

 

[dvdjs]

for the rigging of primaries by the DNC against Sanders …

LOL. A non-Democrat was allowed to temporarily register as one and participate in the primaries under rules established decades ago. The “rigging” idea of course was one of the memes of the Russian social media campaign. They got you!

 

[dvdjs]

All that matters is conspiracy collusion

This is a something of a hapax; I really don’t know what you are trying to maneuver. But what matters is the integrity of the election is in our country. If what Trump did is not illegal, then the laws should be strengthened to prevent future episodes of this conduct. Bipartisan efforts to that end have been launched int eh House and in the Senate. McConnell is blocking them.

Then what’s the point?

See above.