Moses & Jesus

[ronyodish]

tomshaikh,

I just found what you mean by shirk here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(polytheism). It’s the same thing as I was thinking by the word shareek.

I want to make it very clear to you:

We Christians reject polytheism, or shirk. We are monotheistic. We do not believe in three Gods in partnership. We believe in only one God, and only this one God is to be worshiped.

We believe in the first commandment which says:

“I am the Lord your God, and you shall have no other gods before me.”

So, Muslims should not accuse Christians of polytheism, because we reject polytheism.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… So i guess problem between us is that you make partner in Allah/God…

Hi tomshaikh,

That’s a very interesting point.

Many pagan religions believe in multiple gods; I guess their intent is admirable - I mean, if a god is to love, what can god love before the world was created?

Early Christians saw that if God loved before the world was created, then he must of loved his Son. And the love between the Father and Son is infinite - which means that the love has divine nature and thus produces the third person, The Holy Spirit.

It’s an interesting thought; Before the world and angels were created, what was it that God loved? Surely there must have been someone for God to love?

 

[Lapell]

---

Nice artistic post. Could you tell me this EHIE ASHER EHIE what language is this and Did God said in english to i donot know which Prophet “I am who I am”

It’s Hebrew.

 

[Lapell]

from a Christian point of view, God’s Moses is the Father, His Word and His Holy Spirit.

tomshaikh, I think inJESUS meant to write “Moses’ God”, or the God of Moses, the God Whom Moses worshipped and served.
Is it clear?

 

[Lapell]

Yes, it’s a puzzle to us Catholics, too. One God, but 3 distinct persons. God the Father, His Word who became a man, and their mutual Love is the Holy Spirit… But then, can one fully understand God and His ways? He told us His mysterious name:
EHIE ASHER EHIE (“I am who I am” - or “will be”)
known among the Jews as the “unpronunceable Name”…
God is a mystery no one can fully grasp except for what He lets out to mankind, at least to those whom He chose to tell…
Awesome mystery indeed! :banghead: :harp:

The unpronunceable name, though, is rendered by “YHWH” without vowels. Quite different from EHIE ASHER EHIE, isn’t it?
As for “I am who I am” or “I am who I will (or “shall”?) be”, God Himself said it to Moses from the burning bush. After having said it, God told Moses: "This is what you must say to the sons of Israel:“I Am has sent me to you.” (Exodus 3, 14)

 

[Lapell]

Look, how God can be 3 persons without them being 3 gods, we don’t understand it either. But this is a revealed truth of our Christian faith and though we don’t understand how this can be, we believe it comes from God Himself and we believe it.

 

[tomshaikh]

tomshaikh,

It is not like that with God. There are not three Gods in partnership. There is only one God. In this one God, there is a distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but there is no separation. The Father is not separated from the Son, and the Son is not separated from the Holy Spirit. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, eternally Trinity in Unity.

God bless,

Rony

---

Well thing is that it is said in bible about Trinity relationship. If it is than please tell me coz my friend present me his KingsJames Version Bible and i will look at Trinity reference in it. And whatever you write in above paragraph its donot look like divine it look like humine. And what ever you said in above paragraph is told by others people who have no connection with God or Jesus 12 disciples and other apostles said about Trinity or not. But again those people are not getting revelation from God and they have not right to changed anything or add. Except what jesus told him to write.

 

[tomshaikh]

tomshaikh,

I just found what you mean by shirk here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(polytheism). It’s the same thing as I was thinking by the word shareek.

I want to make it very clear to you:

We Christians reject polytheism, or shirk. We are monotheistic. We do not believe in three Gods in partnership. We believe in only one God, and only this one God is to be worshiped.

We believe in the first commandment which says:

“I am the Lord your God, and you shall have no other gods before me.”

So, Muslims should not accuse Christians of polytheism, because we reject polytheism.

God bless,

Rony

---

Well sorry if i quote something wrong. I am very new in this religion field and i am learn about christianity not to be converted but to aware my christian friends from Islam which i knew about little. But my faith in my religion is very strong but i am not so practical in my religion like praying five times, going to mosque on friday’s and rest i try my best to do. But praying is the one which i have to do coz first question from me from an angel in the grave is about do you perform your five times prayer or not. And yeah about POLYTHESIST word which written in Quran i have to find out who they are pointing to. Probably idoltaries.

Thanks for the deep explanation. I got your point and learn almost about the mystery of Trinity.

 

[inJESUS]

---

Why you are using God’s in plural form. Is it because of His Word and His Holy Spirit. More clearly Son and Holy Spirit. Please explain in brief who is Holy Spirit. Answer my whole question not one part. Thanks

i should have written Moses’ God, my mistake.

I will explain the Holy Spirit in a way familiar to you. When Allah sends his Spirit to give power, solace, or strenghth to believers, this Spirit is the Holy Spirit of Allah…not a creature, but Allah’s own eternal, uncreated Spirit.

Regarding partnership, we do not believe in partners. The Word of God is God, not his partner. The Holy Spirit is God, not a partner.

So we believe in One God. We believe His Word is eternal and uncreated. We believe His Spirit is eternal and uncreated so Trinity is the English word for Tawhid of Allah, His Word, His Spirit.

 

[planten]

tomshaikh,

The Holy Trinity is one God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit).

The Father is fully God.
The Son (also called Word) is fully God.
The Holy Spirit is fully God.

But we do not have three Gods, but one God.

I will use this analogy, and maybe you can understand like this:

It is not 1God + 1God + 1God = 3Gods. This does not explain the Mystery of the Holy Trinity.

It is 1God x 1God x 1God = 1God. This is a better explanation of the Mystery of the Holy Trinity, but I want you to understand that no human words can ever fully explain the Mystery of the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity has been revealed to us, and we believe as a matter of Faith, first and foremost, but only God understands His own Mystery fully and completely.

Here is some more explanation that can help:

The Father is not the Son.
The Father is not the Holy Spirit.

The Son is not the Father.
The Son is not the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
The Holy Spirit is not the Son.

This means that there is a distinction of Trinity in the one God, but the distinction does not make three Gods. The Arabic word used to describe the distinction of Trinity in the the one God is called “Aqaneem” which comes from the Aramaic word “qnome”.

The Father is one “qnoma”.
The Son is one “qnoma”.
The Holy Spirit is one “qnoma”
The three “aqnaeem” or “qnome” are one Allah (in Arabic), or one Alaha (in Aramaic).

So, there are not three Alahe. There is one Alaha, with three qnome.

Is this helpful a little bit to understand how Christians believe about God?

God bless,

Rony

**Rony, you have tried hard to prove Trinity. At the same time you have said " no human words can ever fully explain the Mystery of the Holy Trinity." I could say no human intelligence could understand Trinity. You have used the multiplicative sign for trinity instead of Summation. Why not use the subtraction 1-1-1= -1. or the division system 1/1/1=1 These are not anything good for trinity.

Some one is explaining the Trinity by egg which has yoke and white (albumen) and shell. Some are explaining trinity by Tea i.e. Water +milk+tea leaves. Is this not a joke?

There is no need for Trinity when you are again coming back to One God only. You feel that there is trinity because you read certain things in the bible that make you feel God has three parts. While it is not so.

Were the gnome known to the readers of the old testament? Did the Jews not know about the gnomas?? You are just making it up when it is no where. There is no need to break up the God and then unite Him into One. **

 

[planten]

Hi tomshaikh,

That’s a very interesting point.

Many pagan religions believe in multiple gods; I guess their intent is admirable - I mean, if a god is to love, what can god love before the world was created?

Early Christians saw that if God loved before the world was created, then he must of loved his Son. And the love between the Father and Son is infinite - which means that the love has divine nature and thus produces the third person, The Holy Spirit.

It’s an interesting thought; Before the world and angels were created, what was it that God loved? Surely there must have been someone for God to love?

** That is not proper argument. God could have loved a wife even before a son. Why to have only a son? And create a spirit too. It is not a good point to discuss. As it has been said that It was the thought of the christians " Early Christians saw that if God loved before the world was created, then he must of loved his Son."

It means that people thought about it and felt like that. There was no special instruction to create a son and a spirit. It was a thought. They saw !**

 

[Lapell]

---

Well thing is that it is said in bible about Trinity relationship. If it is than please tell me coz my friend present me his KingsJames Version Bible and i will look at Trinity reference in it. And whatever you write in above paragraph its donot look like divine it look like humine. And what ever you said in above paragraph is told by others people who have no connection with God or Jesus 12 disciples and other apostles said about Trinity or not. But again those people are not getting revelation from God and they have not right to changed anything or add. Except what jesus told him to write.

Well, tomshaikh, see what Jesus said in Mt 28,19 ! He says it Himself!

 

[tomshaikh]

**Rony, you have tried hard to prove Trinity. At the same time you have said " no human words can ever fully explain the Mystery of the Holy Trinity." I could say no human intelligence could understand Trinity. You have used the multiplicative sign for trinity instead of Summation. Why not use the subtraction 1-1-1= -1. or the division system 1/1/1=1 These are not anything good for trinity.

Some one is explaining the Trinity by egg which has yoke and white (albumen) and shell. Some are explaining trinity by Tea i.e. Water +milk+tea leaves. Is this not a joke?

There is no need for Trinity when you are again coming back to One God only. You feel that there is trinity because you read certain things in the bible that make you feel God has three parts. While it is not so.

Were the gnome known to the readers of the old testament? Did the Jews not know about the gnomas?? You are just making it up when it is no where. There is no need to break up the God and then unite Him into One. **

---

 

[tomshaikh]

** That is not proper argument. God could have loved a wife even before a son. Why to have only a son? And create a spirit too. It is not a good point to discuss. As it has been said that It was the thought of the christians " Early Christians saw that if God loved before the world was created, then he must of loved his Son."

It means that people thought about it and felt like that. There was no special instruction to create a son and a spirit. It was a thought. They saw !**

---

Salaam Brother, Well Abrahim/Ibrahim PBUH like BiBi Sarah and Listen to her what she want. Like Prophet Muhammad PBUH like BiBi Khadija. Hope i clear it

 

[planten]

i should have written Moses’ God, my mistake.

I will explain the Holy Spirit in a way familiar to you. When Allah sends his Spirit to give power, solace, or strenghth to believers, this Spirit is the Holy Spirit of Allah…not a creature, but Allah’s own eternal, uncreated Spirit.

Regarding partnership, we do not believe in partners. The Word of God is God, not his partner. The Holy Spirit is God, not a partner.

So we believe in One God. We believe His Word is eternal and uncreated. We believe His Spirit is eternal and uncreated so Trinity is the English word for Tawhid of Allah, His Word, His Spirit.

**This is not true, at least, according to the Islamic teachings. God is a spirit, Yes. But he has many things such as angels. they are all spirits. They are creatures. Not gods. Holy Spirit is also an angel (Gabriel) mentioned in the Quran and in the bible. That is a creature of God, not God or part of God. That is the end of the spirit as a God.

Son is the same. God does not have any wife or son or daughters. He has no family. He niether begets nor is He begotten. (Chapter 112 of Quran). There is none like HIM.

Allah creates by His words. That does not mean His words become Gods. It is quite simple never to have any God beside the One God. The Jews never knew about it. The christians who are only a branch or off-shoot of the Jews cannot invent something which was never known to any one before them.**

 

[Lapell]

**Rony, you have tried hard to prove Trinity. At the same time you have said " no human words can ever fully explain the Mystery of the Holy Trinity." I could say no human intelligence could understand Trinity. You have used the multiplicative sign for trinity instead of Summation. Why not use the subtraction 1-1-1= -1. or the division system 1/1/1=1 These are not anything good for trinity.

Some one is explaining the Trinity by egg which has yoke and white (albumen) and shell. Some are explaining trinity by Tea i.e. Water +milk+tea leaves. Is this not a joke?

There is no need for Trinity when you are again coming back to One God only. You feel that there is trinity because you read certain things in the bible that make you feel God has three parts. While it is not so.

Were the gnome known to the readers of the old testament? Did the Jews not know about the gnomas?? You are just making it up when it is no where. There is no need to break up the God and then unite Him into One. **

Planten, you asked for an explanation of the Holy Trinity. Some of us tried to provide an explanation. Because the explanation give doesn’t satisfy you and you don’t believe it, it doesn’t automatically follow from it that there is no such thing as the Holy Trinity. In Mt 28, 19, there’s the resurrected Jesus Himself sending His disciples, asking them to baptize the people He sent them to “in the name (not the names) of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.” It’s in the Gospels, you see… and Jesus is the one who said it!

 

[Lapell]

**This is not true, at least, according to the Islamic teachings. God is a spirit, Yes. But he has many things such as angels. they are all spirits. They are creatures. Not gods. Holy Spirit is also an angel (Gabriel) mentioned in the Quran and in the bible. That is a creature of God, not God or part of God. That is the end of the spirit as a God.

Son is the same. God does not have any wife or son or daughters. He has no family. He niether begets nor is He begotten. (Chapter 112 of Quran). There is none like HIM.

Allah creates by His words. That does not mean His words become Gods. It is quite simple never to have any God beside the One God. The Jews never knew about it. The christians who are only a branch or off-shoot of the Jews cannot invent something which was never known to any one before them.**

That’s because Jesus hadn’t come to the flesh before that. The Apostles themselves were very astonished by many things Jesus did…

 

[Lapell]

There was none like Jesus…

 

[Lapell]

This is not true, at least, according to the Islamic teachings. God is a spirit, Yes. But he has many things such as angels. they are all spirits. They are creatures. Not gods.

We agree here! as for the Holy Spirit, we don’t!

 

[inJESUS]

** That is not proper argument. God could have loved a wife even before a son. Why to have only a son? And create a spirit too. It is not a good point to discuss. As it has been said that It was the thought of the christians " Early Christians saw that if God loved before the world was created, then he must of loved his Son."

It means that people thought about it and felt like that. There was no special instruction to create a son and a spirit. It was a thought. They saw !**

Planten,

in Arabic, there is an expression that says " the daughters of my thougths", which means my thoughts…

likewise. son has absolutely nothing to do with wife and children. Son is a SPIRITUAL title that denotes a spiritual relationship between the Father and His Word.

It is time to stop comminting the same mistake, isn’t it?