Moses & Jesus

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planten said:
Matthew 12:39
He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

**inJesus please see that Jesus was aksed for miracles and signs. But he said that no sign shall be shown to the wicked people except the sign of Jonas…

That sign was also not shown properly. Jesus did not remain in the belly of the earth for three days and three nights. According to christian. Jesus died in the tomb while Jonas lived in the belly of the fish. Anothe rproblem: After coming out of the belly of the fish, Jonas visited all the people. But Jesus moved quietly and secretly andmet only his special friends. He did not go to those who disbelieved him.
So even one sign was not shown by Jesus. Please see the exact words of the bible. Jesus says that no sign will be shown…**
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That’s interesting. Paarsurrey said the same thing on a different thread in a similar font color and similar font size. :rolleyes:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2388774#post2388774
 
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m with you my brother/sister. By the grace of God I will remain true to my Jesus, my Savior, my God in whom I put my trust. I shall not put my trust in anyone else. He holds the words of eternal life. Whom else shall I go to?
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Peace…
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Peace Mystic Warrior!

Thank you for your support 🙂

God bless,

Rony
 
ronyodish said:
planten,

Jesus is the Incarnate Word of the Father. Before His incarnation, He always was eternally the Word of the Father. When He became Man, revealing the will of the Father for all mankind, He was not like the earlier prophets. The earlier prophets were only prophets, not the Incarnate Word of the Father. The earlier prophets received their messages from the Father, through the Word, in the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Incarnate Word, who came down to directly address the people. Jesus is the Priest, Prophet, and King, that is, the Anointed One, the Revelation of the Father to men. None of the earlier priests, prophets, and kings were like that, rather, they were creatures anointed for a specific mission, not like Jesus Christ, fully God and fully Man.

The Holy Spirit is not one of the created angels, not a created spirit. The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit spoke by the prophets in the Old Testament, meaning, God spoke by the prophets. The Holy Spirit is God who spoke by creatures (prophets) to creatures (ordinary men).

Jesus is the Incarnate Word of the Father. He is the Incarnate Speech of the Father. He is the Incarnate Message of the Father. The Father is God, His Word is God, His Spirit is God. One God forever. You can not separate the Father from His Word and Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Son. The Holy Spirit is eternally God. Christians do not make up the teaching of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as eternally One God, rather, Christians receive this revelation from God Himself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not Gods, they are One God. The Incarnate Son, Jesus, is holy and very important because He is God. The Holy Spirit is holy and very important because He is God. The Father is holy and very important because He is God.

We reject the made up Muslim understanding of who Jesus and the Holy Spirit is. We accept the revealed Christian understanding of who Jesus and the Holy Spirit is.

God bless,

Rony
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**Yes, Rony, I have partially understood what you mean. Thanks, and I shall not argue this point any more. But please remember that we Muslims believe that Jesus was a man and you also believe that he was a man.

You say there are three gods. We say there is only One God**.
 
planten said:
**
But please remember that we Muslims believe that Jesus was a man and you also believe that he was a man.**.
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You Muslims believe in the bodily resurrection and we Christians believe in the bodily resurrection, too. What does this similarity of yours prove then?
planten said:
**
You say there are three gods. We say there is only One God**.
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The faulty assumption that Christians believe and worship three gods is derived from the erroneous teachings of the Koran, which deliberately and unethically ascribe pagan elements to the purely monotheistic Trinitarian doctrine of Christianity. For the authors of the Koran, the Christian Trinity was based on Mary’s sexual union with God!
 
Angelos, what does your second signature mean? The one in Greek (transcribed in Latin letters) starting with “Antilavou”?
Thanks and God bless you!
 
planten said:
** Rony, we know all these things. The words of Jesus given to apostles do not make him a God. He received the words just like earlier prophets got them from God. And those prophets remained prophets only. Nobody calls them God. Please see the OT. It is full of prophets.
Similarly, the words of holy spirit given to Jesus and the apostles cannot make the holy spirit into a god. Holy spiirt is an angel. That is a spirit from God. That holy spirit has been bringing messages to all prophets before Jesus. That holy spirit is a creature of god. It is not a god.
So there lies your problem of making God out of a mere messenger of god… That was jesus. Then you people made the messenger angel (the holy spirit) into another god. No doubt Jesus and the holy spirit are very important and quite holy persons. But they are not Gods.

I have just tried to explain a few things about Jesus and the holy spirit as we Muslims understand them.**
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“…As we Muslims understand them.” O.K., this explains in part the difficulties. What we Catholics and other Christians call the Holy Spirit is also called the “Breath” of God, what in Hebrew is called “ruah” (if I missed a letter in the transcription any fine help would be welcome)…
Whether Jesus and the Holy Spirit are or are not persons in God and therefore God (not Gods) is not for us to decide, Planten. It either is or is not the case, and we Christians (Catholics included) believe it is the case, for the Church has steadily taught this. And so this is not something open to discussion. Sorry!
(I understand you’re telling us how the Muslims view it, but it still isn’t open to discussion: it’s solid doctrine of the Church and this one won’t change. Even if you and I can’t explain fully the how!)
 
Yes, Rony, I have partially understood what you mean. Thanks, and I shall not argue this point any more. But please remember that we Muslims believe that Jesus was a man and you also believe that he was a man.
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You say there are three gods. We say there is only One God.
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planten,

No, you have not partially understood what I mean, because if you did, you would not accuse me of saying that there are three gods. I specifically told you that I reject this blasphemous heresy of 3 gods. I believe and Christians believe in only One God.

Also, we Christians believe that Jesus Christ is a unity of Divinity and Humanity, perfectly God and perfectly Man, not just a man.

God bless,

Rony
 
ronyodish said:
planten,

No, you have not partially understood what I mean, because if you did, you would not accuse me of saying that there are three gods. I specifically told you that I reject this blasphemous heresy of 3 gods. I believe and Christians believe in only One God.

Also, we Christians believe that Jesus Christ is a unity of Divinity and Humanity, perfectly God and perfectly Man, not just a man.

God bless,

Rony
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** May be there is a difefrent theory now. I felt that christians believe that there are three gods and One God. That the three are in One. What are those three? Are they not God?**
 
planten said:
** May be there is a difefrent theory now. I felt that christians believe that there are three gods and One God. That the three are in One. What are those three? Are they not God?**
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We believe in One Father, His Word and His Spirit

We believe in Allah, His Word, His Spirit

Nu’min bi Allah, Kalimatiti wa Ruhihi

The 3 are not about 3 gods but about al Kalima (Word) and Ruh of God( Allah) HIMSELF.

iS it clearer now?
 
Lapell said:
Angelos, what does your second signature mean? The one in Greek (transcribed in Latin letters) starting with “Antilavou”?
Thanks and God bless you!
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Dear Lapell,

It literally means “Help, save, have mercy upon, and protect us, O God, with your grace”.

This prayer is taken from the Sunday liturgy of John Chrysostomos, and most of the words are therefore in ancient Greek.

Peace and blessings.
 
May be there is a difefrent theory now. I felt that christians believe that there are three gods and One God. That the three are in One. What are those three? Are they not God?
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planten,

Christians have always believed in One God who is Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit. I’ve explained, and other Christians here have also explained, what this means.

Review the previous posts.

God bless,

Rony
 
ronyodish said:
planten,

Christians have always believed in One God who is Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit. I’ve explained, and other Christians here have also explained, what this means.

Review the previous posts.

God bless,

Rony
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Well your first sentence above. Why you are using son/Word and Holy Spirit. Just say so Father thats it. If you wanna prove that you believe on one God. Instead of son/Word and Holy Spirit.

Tom AKA Mohammed
 
Well your first sentence above. Why you are using son/Word and Holy Spirit. Just say so Father thats it. If you wanna prove that you believe on one God. Instead of son/Word and Holy Spirit.
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Tom AKA Mohammed
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Mohammed,

Because we do not separate the Father from His Word and His Spirit. We don’t divide the One God. The One God is eternally Triune as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

God bless,

Rony
 
planten said:
** May be there is a difefrent theory now. I felt that christians believe that there are three gods and One God. That the three are in One. What are those three? Are they not God?**
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They are three persons, but they are one God - that means that know with the same intellect, and they love with the same will. They were not created, they have always existed.

I would highly recommend Frank Sheed’s book, Theology for Beginners.
 
inJESUS said:
We believe in One Father, His Word and His Spirit

We believe in Allah, His Word, His Spirit

Nu’min bi Allah, Kalimatiti wa Ruhihi

The 3 are not about 3 gods but about al Kalima (Word) and Ruh of God( Allah) HIMSELF.

iS it clearer now?
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So the word and spirit are not gods. That is good to me too. In other words, you will say Three but you will never say Three gods. I hope there is no harm in saying Three. Just Three is alright. But do not say that they are gods. I hope I am right. If not then you may adjust or correct me in this matter please.
 
ronyodish said:
planten,

Christians have always believed in One God who is Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit. I’ve explained, and other Christians here have also explained, what this means.

Review the previous posts.

God bless,

Rony
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You have explained it again that you believe in One God who is father and son and holy ghost (holy spirit). So the father is the son and holy spirit? Is that it? See your own words below:

Christians have always believed in One God who is Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit.
 
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