Moslem Bible

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Montalban said:
I’m still yet to fully understand this, but I think it’s in the nature of Islam to blanket one to logic - I think it’s the way they teach it - which is to make people endlessly repeat it.

Satan is a master at deception and these people so willingly serve him
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Exactly!

Vickie 👍 👍
 
Where’s this Moslem approved Bible?

Paarsurrey’s saying in another thread that not all the words in the Bible attribted to Jesus are his. By saying ‘not all’ there’s the implication that some are.

So, which ones are?
 
Montalban said:
Where’s this Moslem approved Bible?
Paarsurrey’s saying in another thread that not all the words in the Bible attribted to Jesus are his. By saying ‘not all’ there’s the implication that some are.
So, which ones are?
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Hi

We don’t have to write a Bible for the Orthodixies and say it is from God, this is your writing. We have Quran which mentions truly what is needed for us to know about Jesus, Mary and Apostles of Jesus. It is all nice and respectful to them.

Thanks
 
Montalban said:
It’s one reason I couldn’t become a Moslem. Moslems told me that they ‘respect’ the Bible. But they go against it.
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Ironic that this bears resemblance to Sola Scriptura. There is simply no way out but to totally abandon prior held beliefs and follow the Lamb in His Church. That sadly they will not do. It is too much like self-surrender. But that in iteslf and of iteself is the way of God [Allah] in Christ.
 
Paasurrey’s missed the point.

IF Moslems don’t need to use the Bible, because they believe the Koran is all sufficient, then what about Moslems who *do *use the Bible to prove things, such as the foretelling of the coming of Muhammed?

They obviously believe the verses they are using still contain truth.
 
Sixtus said:
Ironic that this bears resemblance to Sola Scriptura. There is simply no way out but to totally abandon prior held beliefs and follow the Lamb in His Church. That sadly they will not do. It is too much like self-surrender. But that in iteslf and of iteself is the way of God [Allah] in Christ.
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It is indeed, because they think (based on their say-so) that Paul changed the meaning of Christ’s messge.
 
Montalban said:
That’s all I ask:p

The problems for “Q” are for another thread, however there’s no evidence for “Q”

The idea for “Q” is that because several of the synoptic gospels are similar there must have been a common source that they all used - Quelle being ‘source’ in German, hence “Q”.

The problem with this is that of course they’d be similar as they’re accounting for the same events.
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‘Q’ is a scholarly solution. As you said, there is no evidence for it. You can reject the solution, but not the problem. More than 200 verses are similar in Mt and Lk!! If it was account of their own of the same events in the life of Jesus (pbuh), Mk and Jn too was supposed to write it similarly, but it is not. It is not because, Mk didn’t know about that source. Jn, either didn’t know about that source or he used some other sources as well to write his account.
 
George_Waters said:
I am not going to do **your research **for you. If you can not cite your sources I can not take your allegations seriously. You even say “supposed” so how serious can they be? If they really proved Christians wrong I would think you would carry it in your pocket. I guess you place as much stock in them as I do.

My faith is quite secure thanks! It does not relay on the word of one man you failed to cite his sources as well. How’s yours?
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It is not my allegation first. Secondly, it is not my research. If it was, I would have given you the evidence. These ‘allegation’ and ‘research’ are there in your Bible. I am asking to clarify me your Bible, or atleast to yourself.
 
Khalfan said:
‘Q’ is a scholarly solution. As you said, there is no evidence for it. You can reject the solution, but not the problem.
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There isn’t a problem.

As pointed out you’ve several testimonies to the same events. Of course there’d be a mass of similarities.

In point of fact it would be a problem if they were very much different.
 
Montalban said:
I’ve seen Moslems who argue that the Bible predicts Muhammed - they usually use reference to ‘the helper’, which as all Chrisitans know, is the Holy Spirit who came at Pentecost.

However, if Moslems use the Bible as ‘proofs’, then these verses should be ‘okay’ by them.

I wonder why no Moslem’s yet given me a list of which verses are approved
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It should be obvious why they haven’t.

They don’t want the rug pulled out from under them.
 
Khalfan said:
Verse wher we have difficulty to understand the words of Jesus (pbuh) and the words of disciples

In the gospel of Mark (10:17-18. see Luke 18:18-19), a man is reported to have asked Jesus, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? "Jesus (P) simply replied, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.’ "

Look at the same event in Matthew. “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. …” (Matthew 19:16-17)

What did he exactly asked and What did Jesus (pbuh) exactly answered is unknown since we have two versions of it. Either one is wrong or both are wrong.

If we go through a parrellel Bible where we can read and compare each gospels, mark with matthew, matthew with luke, luke with john, we can find this problem of getting the accurate words Jesus (pbuh) and disciples in almost all the verses. It is like each of them have their own version of Jesus (pbuh) and his teaching. Normally christians come up with the reason, they all had their own different audience etc. But at the end, what we lost is the actual words of Jesus (pbuh).
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I’m afraid you can compare the versions of the same story in the Quran, and find out that they don’t exactly line up, this in the work of one man, as muslims believe
 
exoflare said:
No evidence is needed, to prove a negative argument. But if you have any evidence on your part, you can try and disprove it. There is no original manuscript of any part of the Quran (the originals were written on separate pieces of whatever objects people could get a hold of at the time of each revelation) in existence today. If you find one that does exist, let me know.
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Actually parts of the Quran date from its first century, on the Dome of the Rock, graffitti inscriptions, papyri and a cache of documents from the Grand Mosque of Sana, etc.

Unfortunately, none match the present day text exactly.
 
Montalban said:
So some Christians say it’s so, so it must be! Rather selective of you; to only accept what they say that confirms anything you already believe
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The “Higher” Critics. Their Christian credentials should have expired.

Btw, Julius Welhausen, a leader in this also did a job on Early Islam. Perhaps they would want to accept him as an authority on the Quran too.
 
Montalban said:
It is indeed, because they think (based on their say-so) that Paul changed the meaning of Christ’s messge.
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They also teach contrary to the facts regarding the death of the Lord. They say [and I have read it myself] that the Sanhedrin police did not know which one was Christ and they arrested Him at night so got the wrong man. 😛

What they conveniently ignore is that Judas [one of His followers] escorted them to Christ and betrayed Him [with a kiss]. Scripture says ‘Judas told them to arrest the man whom he identifies with a kiss as the Christ’ Jn 18:1-3. Jesus also asked them ‘whom are you looking for’ and when they said ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ He replied: ‘I am He’ Jn 18:4

Now if the Koran is in error over this most simple fact, then how much more is in error where the facts are more ambigous!

So let’s get this right: according to the Koran, God CHOSE a man to be His Apostle to the Gentiles whom God knew would corrupt the teachings of God.

What would be the point. Why would God make such a choice?

It is totally illogical and preposterous.
 
Sixtus said:
Now if the Koran is in error over this most simple fact, then how much more is in error where the facts are more ambigous!
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Hi

This is no mentioned in Quran, might be somebody’s misconception. Please quote from Quran.

Thanks
 
They’ve got to believe that the message was changed - else no need for Muhammed.
 
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