Moslem leader speaks on Women

[Montalban]

No, I am not saying the media should of stayed quiet.
And I did not say the media were picking on him, but it seems to be the trend to highlight in the media nowadays anything about Islam.

He’s the one making the comments. If you’re aware of Dr. Geo. Pell (senior Roman Catholic in Australia) making the same sort of comments, then please report it.

You’re not to know this but our previous Governor General, The Right Rev. Dr Peter Hollingworth -see link* had to step down from his position because of comments he made when he served as Anglican bishop in Brisbane- a different job. He stepped down from a secular position for something he said unconnected with that office. It was reported widely.

These trends of who to highlight in our media come and go, but the underlying issue of rape and our judicial system stays constant.
The media should use their power to lobby changes for victims of rape.

It does.

Another example was that Dr George Pell was in 2002 was accused of sexual misconduct with a child. About the same time our beloved Sheikh Taj El-Din Hilaly was stopped by police whilst driving an unregistered and an uninsured vehicle. Which do you think was the more serious accusation?

The process: Dr George Pell stood aside whilst the matter was investigated. Taj El-Din Hilaly collapsed in a fit on the road-side claiming the police were out to get him. His actions lead to attacks on police. He was fined $400. And Dr Pell? He was exonerated and he forgave the man who had falsely accused him. Both of these incidents were reported. Both also show the nature of the two men. Hilaly did not forgive the police.

These incidents should calm your indignation that Moslems are being targeted (at least in this country).

Our Commonwealth Treasurer, Peter Costello, a man I’ve seldom respected actually caused me to stop and admire his thinking today. He said that the Sheikh’s words were said about a month ago. Did any Moslem then come forward and complain about the Sheikh’s comments? They certainly didn’t pass that information onto the media. A person who disagreed with him might have approached him, and failing that, approached the media. This didn’t happen. Perhaps because the members of the mosque agreed with him.

*See
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hollingworth

 

[Valke2]

The Islamic Council of WA’s religious adviser, Abdul Jalil Ahmad, says while rape is the man’s fault, **women should take preventative measures to avoid being targeted. **

Let them pack guns and mace. Those preventive measures should work at least as well and leave them plenty of freedom of fashion.

 

[Valke2]

On another thread here, 32% of people who took the poll agreed that how a woman dresses affects whether or not she will be raped (paraphrasing).

 

[Montalban]

Let them pack guns and mace. Those preventive measures should work at least as well and leave them plenty of freedom of fashion.

It’s an interesting point!

Or wearing chastity belts.

I wonder why rapes aren’t on the increase in nudist camps?

 

[kellie]

He’s the one making the comments. If you’re aware of Dr. Geo. Pell (senior Roman Catholic in Australia) making the same sort of comments, then please report it.

You’re not to know this but our previous Governor General, The Right Rev. Dr Peter Hollingworth -see link* had to step down from his position because of comments he made when he served as Anglican bishop in Brisbane- a different job. He stepped down from a secular position for something he said unconnected with that office. It was reported widely.

It does.

Another example was that Dr George Pell was in 2002 was accused of sexual misconduct with a child. About the same time our beloved Sheikh Taj El-Din Hilaly was stopped by police whilst driving an unregistered and an uninsured vehicle. Which do you think was the more serious accusation?

The process: Dr George Pell stood aside whilst the matter was investigated. Taj El-Din Hilaly collapsed in a fit on the road-side claiming the police were out to get him. His actions lead to attacks on police. He was fined $400. And Dr Pell? He was exonerated and he forgave the man who had falsely accused him. Both of these incidents were reported. Both also show the nature of the two men. Hilaly did not forgive the police.

These incidents should calm your indignation that Moslems are being targeted (at least in this country).

Our Commonwealth Treasurer, Peter Costello, a man I’ve seldom respected actually caused me to stop and admire his thinking today. He said that the Sheikh’s words were said about a month ago. Did any Moslem then come forward and complain about the Sheikh’s comments? They certainly didn’t pass that information onto the media. A person who disagreed with him might have approached him, and failing that, approached the media. This didn’t happen. Perhaps because the members of the mosque agreed with him.

*See
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hollingworth

I seriously think you are missing the point of what I am saying.

Also, I live in Melbourne, so I am well aware of Cardinal Pell, he was my Archbishop for a while.
I also know of our GG’s resignation from office due to events that happened when he was Archbishop in Qld.
I also am well aware of who “our” treasurer is.

 

[Montalban]

I seriously think you are missing the point of what I am saying.

Also, I live in Melbourne, so I am well aware of Cardinal Pell, he was my Archbishop for a while.
I also know of our GG’s resignation from office due to events that happened when he was Archbishop in Qld.
I also am well aware of who “our” treasurer is.

You don’t seem to be aware because you believe the media is targeting Islam. It is not. If you are aware of these people and events then you need to explain how you still think that Islam is being especially targeted.

Perhaps it’s because Moslems are the only ones making these sorts of comments at present. Not just on Sheikh, but then another, and now a third.

Here’s my rant…
And the evangelist Fred Nile does on occasion make the head-lines too, when he protests Gay Mardi Gras. He’s regularly lampooned by the gutless ‘comdey’ hacks on the ABC (such as the “Glass House” program). I state ‘gutless’ because they are frequently exercising their freedom of speech to lampoon Christians and Christianity (even though I don’t agree with Pell or Nile on many occasions, I note that the ABC’s hacks don’t lampoon Islamic clerics - so for me, I observe quite the opposite). I recall Triple-J had for Easter a “Dead Guy music weekend.” I’ve yet to hear about them making fun of Ramadan. Perhaps because Christians in this country don’t throw Molotov cocktails through radio-station windows, and Moslems over-react at cartoons.

end of rant

 

[Montalban]

I’ve used some of these verses before, but this is a more extensive list

Heaps of verses

From Buhkari…

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 110:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

I heard the Prophet saying. “Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house.”

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 111:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad Saidi:

Allah’s Apostle said “If there is any evil omen in anything, then it is in the woman, the horse and the house.”
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.110

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 30:
Narrated Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah’s Apostle said, "Evil omen is in the women, the house and the horse.’

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 31:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Evil omen was mentioned before the Prophet: The Prophet said, “If there is evil omen in anything, it is in the house, the woman and the horse.”

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 32:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

Allah’s Apostle said, “If at all there is bad omen, it is in the horse, the woman, and the house.”

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 33:
Narrated Usama bin Zaid:

The Prophet said, “After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women.”
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.029

Volume 7, Book 71, Number 666:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah’s Apostle said, “there is neither 'Adha nor Tiyara, and an evil omen is only in three: a horse, a woman and a house.” (See the foot-note of Hadith No. 649)
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/071.sbt.html#007.071.666

From Hadith Muslim

Book 026, Number 5524:
'Abdullah b. 'Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying. There is no transitive disease, no ill omen, and bad luck is lound in the house, or wife or horse.

Book 026, Number 5525:
This hadith has been reported on the authority of Zuhri with other chains of transmitters but with slight variations of wording.

Book 026, Number 5526:
'Umar b. Muhammad b. Zaid reported that he heard his father narrating from Ibn 'Umar that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) had said. If bad luck is a fact, then it is in the horse, the woman and the house.

Book 026, Number 5527:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Shu’ba with the same chain of transmitters but there is no mention of the word" Haqq"" (fact).

Book 026, Number 5528:
'Abdullah b. 'Umar reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: If there is bad luck in anything, it is the horse, the abode and the woman.

Book 026, Number 5529:
Sahl b. Sa’d reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: If bad luck were to be in anything, it is found in the woman, the horse and the abode.

Book 026, Number 5530:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Sahl b. Sa’d with a difterent chain of transmitters.

Book 026, Number 5531:
Jabir reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: If bad luck were to be in anything, it is found in the land, in the servant and in the horse.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/026.smt.html#026.5524

From Abu-Dawud,
Book 29, Number 3911:
Narrated Sa’d ibn Malik:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no hamah, no infection and no evil omen; if there is in anything an evil omen, it is a house, a horse, and a woman.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/029.sat.html#029.3911

 

[murtad]

The most authoritative source in Islam is the Quran and then the hadiths.

Yes, Quran and Hadith are considered the primary sources of Syariah (Islamic law). The secondary sources of Syariah will be the 1000 years of history of the Islamic Caliphate. These are good examples of how Syariah (Islamic law) is enforced in the past, present and FUTURE.

Why should I or anyone else take Islamic apologetics which I know to be contrary to the Quran and the Sunnah?

Islamic apologetics is based on the principle of Takiya that allows Muslims to deceive the unsuspecting and gullible non Muslim to make Islamic religion look attractive to spread it. Once Muslims became strong (ie have a majority in Parliament or Congress), Takiya is no longer required as they can impose themselves upon Christian minority and subjugate us by declaring Arabic the official language of EU and Syariah the supreme law of EU.

But by then, it will be too late as we, Christians will be just a minority!

So, let us stop Islamic imperialism by supporting 1948 Israel and the new Iraq, which are both FREE countries that are multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious as well as the only Middle Eastern societies that is compliant to the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

[kellie]

You don’t seem to be aware because you believe the media is targeting Islam. It is not. If you are aware of these people and events then you need to explain how you still think that Islam is being especially targeted.

I said media trends come and go.

What will sell newspapers at the moment?

Headlines about what a Muslim cleric says.

The trend will go, another will take its place, and the underlying issue I was discussing with pro_universal will still exist, that is, the appalling way our judicial system deals with rape.

 

[Sufi]

Notice that every single Muslim leader quoted in the article condemned the remarks.

There’s no one supporting the guy. So what’s the news about Islam?

Islam condemns disrespect for women. After all, why would everyone be opposing this guy if it didn’t?

This is what people do brother. They take one or two Muslims and say look THIS IS ISLAM. I can’t wait until another Pope, Priest, Cardinal or Bishop molest another little boys butt when he only came to confess is sin to a nother human being like himself. I will post the topic all over this forum. It’s about due any way. They usually molest every month or so.

Guys this hurts for me to say this right? Of course, but as I know better I would never judge a gay bishop for the whole religion. So please act like you guys know better. If you can’t then I have no choice but to treat you all like ignorant fools. And I know their at least 2 of those here, but I’m sure you all aren’t the same way. As I often deal with Christians.

 

[murtad]

Or wearing chastity belts.

Congradulations! You have proposed a very very very good idea. It could once and for all end sex crimes, such as rape and reduce HIV/AIDS drastically.

I wonder why rapes aren’t on the increase in nudist camps?

Rapes and abortions are increasing exponently in Orthodox Russia annually. This is especially true in nudist camps.

 

[Sufi]

Montalban,

In Islam there is something called Tasawuff. If you can not foster this into your heart, it;s not very esay to understand Islam.

There were 3 things the Prophet, peace be upon liked:

1. ALLAH
2. Women
3. The smell of musk

Now why would a man who loved women called them evil? It must be something deeper to it then this or the translator didn’t translate correctly or used the word that seem the most fitting right?

 

[cestusdei]

Take a look at the report on www.sandmonkey.org. He is an Egyptian who reported an hours long riot where Muslim men raped anything they could find in central Cairo. The police did nothing and it was not reported in the news.

 

[Myangel]

I can’t wait until another Pope, Priest, Cardinal or Bishop molest another little boys butt when he only came to confess is sin to a nother human being like himself. I will post the topic all over this forum. It’s about due any way. They usually molest every month or so.

Are you serious??? I cant believe you would wish evil upon little boys to make a point! Maybe you should think about what you say before hitting the submit button. Noone here is wishing evil upon ANYONE to prove any point.

 

[exclamation_mar]

About what al hilali said, it is not 100% true and not 100% wrong !

In the middle east and in some islamic countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran, that are well known for their extreme laws and procedure about " islamic dress codes" where women cover their faces with veils and black cloaks from top to bottom, you will find crimes of rape and sexual harrasment, at their highest and may be even worse than what is heard in the west !

Why ?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Why can’t Muslims stop their tu quoque?

Sex with little boys by priests or anyone else is considered by Christians to be a heinous sin. Covering up this sin is also a sin.

 

[cestusdei]

Sufi, you can post what you like. I will, of course, post about Muhammed having sex with a 9 year old. I will post the parts of the quran that promise young boys in paradise. I will post about the well known Muslim penchant for homosexuality and pedastery. Trust me, you will come out the loser. But go right ahead.

 

[Ella]

About what al hilali said, it is not 100% true and not 100% wrong !

In the middle east and in some islamic countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran, that are well known for their extreme laws and procedure about " islamic dress codes" where women cover their faces with veils and black cloaks from top to bottom, you will find crimes of rape and sexual harrasment, at their highest and may be even worse than what is heard in the west !

Why ?

Dear Exclamation Mark, what part of the world are you from and where do you live now, if a different place from where you were born?
Welcome, by the way. You sort of put your head in an oven by coming here - there is alot of anger here. But I thank you for coming here…

 

[Montalban]

Montalban,

In Islam there is something called Tasawuff. If you can not foster this into your heart, it’s not very easy to understand Islam.

I agree. One must foster this darkness so as to accommodate the evils of Islam. It doesn’t come easily to people, but with some training by rote one can learn to accept all the inconsistencies of Islam and just pretend that they don’t exist.

There were 3 things the Prophet:

1. ALLAH
2. Women
3. The smell of musk

Now why would a man who loved women called them evil?

A womaniser does not ‘love’ women. Muhammad boasted about his staying power. He desired a child! He was sex-obsessed.

It must be something deeper to it then this or the translator didn’t translate correctly or used the word that seem the most fitting right?

It’s always the excuse that there’s a mistranslation making Arabic the most foreign language in the world; and the most difficult to understand. It’s no wonder anyone can do commerce with Arabs, in way of contracts etc, because the misunderstandings must abound.

Thus you believe that Muhammad ‘loved’ women.

 

[Montalban]

Rapes and abortions are increasing exponently in Orthodox Russia annually. This is especially true in nudist camps.

Do you know what a non sequiter is?