Mary_Gail_36
New member
Hmmm either 68% or 72% use “highly effective methods.” So does that mean 32% or 28% uses no method?
So almost 1/3 is faithful?..not* too* bad
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So almost 1/3 is faithful?..not* too* bad
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graceandglory
Guest
Reasons I stayed away from the church for 20 yrs. Pretty much sold my soul on the altar of contraception as a protestant. Nothing like a protestant wedding with a pastor who himself has a vasectomy.
Came back to the church because of the Church’s faithfulness to the GOspel, not because of the unfaithful members in the church.
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TMC
Guest
Like usury and slavery.The Catholic Church holds the entire deposit of the faith entrusted to her by Christ. The deposit of the faith cannot change. The Church has always taught that contraception is intrinsically evil. That truth is part of the deposit of the faith and it’s never going to change.
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Jennifer_J
Guest
This is not dogma or doctrine…Like usury and slavery.
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dfp42
Guest
doctrine doesn’t change people do.
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edwest2
Guest
I don’t think that some are ignorant. In 1960, The Pill was approved by the FDA. By 1967, it was in wide use in the United States. Keep in mind, untill recently, most people lived on farms and in rural areas. In 1968, Pope Paul VI had Humanae Vitae published. It stated Church teaching clear as a bell. But, dissidents inside and outside the Catholic were against it. Some months back, a priest wrote on this forum that he was called to a meeting with other priests in 1968. He was asked to sign a letter against it. He refused. He then described that the priest leading the meeting used some salty language to try to get him to change his mind. He still refused.Let’s face it, guys. Catchesis in the Catholic Church has been flat-out terrible in the last few decades. I see silver linings in some of the clouds nowadays- depending upon the parish- but when I was growing up (around the eighties and ninties) I heard nary a thing about what the Church had to say about birth control, sex within marriage and other concerns. As we learn more about our Catholic faith, it is now our job to educate the next generation so that they don’t grow up abysmally ignorant of the Church’s teachings like we were.
In the 1970s, seminaries taught Humanae Vitae but added that the Church might change its teaching on contraception someday. Guess what? When parishioners asked their priest about contraception, they were told it was a personal conscience issue. Add to that the opening of adult bookstores, strip clubs and porn movie theaters in the 1970s, and you have a negative education environment. To think that just a few years prior, certain words were banned on TV. Husbands and wives sleeping in the same bed? Nope. I was there. TV was consistent with our faith and showed clean, wholesome things, and private matters were kept private.
Today – 180 degrees to the bad. Private? Intimate? Viagra commercials?
Peace,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
Wait until marriage wasn’t enough? I grew up in the 1960s and the iron-clad rule was “no sex while dating.” We didn’t need a class for that. It was understood. And if the guy got the girl pregnant, you did the right thing and got married.**Yes.**I became a young adult in the early 80s, and my childhood friends and I (Catholic school graduates all) heard nothing about Catholic views on human sexuality beyond the ‘wait until marriage’ and ‘abortion is a sin’ teachings. I watched a couple of friends get married right out of college, have babies in their first year of marriage, freak out for a whole host of reasons about getting pregnant again, and use ABC because they couldn’t a lick of decent information about NFP from their local parishes. (Remember, these are the years before the interwebs.)
Happily, our parish has a NFP ministry run by a registered nurse so our kids don’t have to live in the ignorance we did.
I think long before the interwebs, if you could find out where to get an abortion you could find out where to get Natural Family Planning information. What I’m saying is, even if people did use ABC that did not mean they should stop looking to find the information they wanted, and once they had it, they could stop using ABC. I’ve called my local Diocese to get answers to questions.
Peace,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
I can’t speak for all Catholics in all circumstances, but prior to the late 1960s, sex was understood as primarily for the purpose of having babies, and pleasure was secondary. Yes, Catholics enjoy sex and have sexual needs. But, starting in the 1970s, everything sexual was put on display. Everything. It was confusing and distracting. When I spotted my first Adult Bookstore, my first thought was, Who legalized this?I think it is more likely that many Catholics understand what the Church teaches and simply disagree. Not all disobedience is from obstinence or ignorance or weakness - sometime it is a good faith disagreement.
I was then confronted by newspaper articles where concerned Christians tried to get these places shut down. Guess what? These people had highly paid lawyers who kept yelling First Amendment.
It is not possible to have a good faith disagreement with the Church on this subject. The teaching is binding on all Catholics.
Peace,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
Let’s have a look at what Pope Paul VI wrote:And if you blindly follow everything told to you, and stop thinking on your own, it’s called a cult. Please don’t take that wrong, I agree nearly 100% with Church teachings. I understand the reason behind the structure, laws etc. However, on certain issues, such as non abortive contraception, even the Orthodox agree that if a married couple has been open to life, has children etc., these types of things can be discussed with a spiritual father, and options are available. To simply say it is NFP or nothing, is well, not right, IMO. (Besides the fact that I’ll bet you 95% of the people using NFP are using it strictly as birth control anyway).
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
Peace,
Ed
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Owlpride
Guest
What I get from this thread is that free thought is not allowed. If you even have honest disagreements-your done. Period. I thought that being allowed to share ideas and discusd is a good thing. Instead, it’s let someone else think and decide for you. Thats not like the catholics in my area. Even our priest allows us to talk, ask questions, disagree and argue. We aren’t just mindless robots.
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edwest2
Guest
You are right. I see most people go to Church, put in their hour, get in their cars and go home. However, I don’t think it would be that difficult to start a social group for Catholics. There are a few in my area. They are traditional in that they include dances (never learned) and social events in general. Too many Catholic Universities have gone in the wrong direction. This began in 1967. Your assumption about 98% of Catholic women would lead you here or there is pure speculation.This poll is sad. It shows how desperate Catholics are and how Catholics refuse to come together as a community to help each other. How often do I meet fellow Catholics from my parish outside of church? Rarely. Most people in church dont know their fellow parishioners.
It does give me good reason to be single. 98% of all the Catholic women out there will lead me into mortal sin and heresy. Not very good odds. I stand a better chance of hitting the jackpot in Vegas.
I wish I could say it was surprising though. Go to a “Catholic” university and you will see most Catholic girls are like village bicycles for college guys. At least most evangelical girls dont act that way. They might use ABC but if Evangelical churches taught ABC was wrong I bet their numbers would be a lot lower.
I dated a girl who was raised Catholic but became a Charismatic Christian. I invited her to my Church. It’s not impossible.
Peace,
Ed
M
markomalley
Guest
What I get from this thread is that free thought is not allowed. If you even have honest disagreements-your done. Period. I thought that being allowed to share ideas and discusd is a good thing. Instead, it’s let someone else think and decide for you. Thats not like the catholics in my area. Even our priest allows us to talk, ask questions, disagree and argue. We aren’t just mindless robots.
You’re absolutely right. Catholics should be able to think for themselves.
Not just about this, but they should think for themselves on other matters too.
After all, it’s just a piece of bread, right?
And the ludicrous idea of being born of a virgin…yeah right. Sure thing.
And any really thinking person really knows that this Jesus character either wasn’t killed in the first place or if he was…well, he just stayed dead.
Yup, Catholics should not have to hold to doctrine at all.
</facetiousness off>
On a serious note: solemnly defined doctrine is solemnly defined doctrine. There’s a word for those who pick and choose which ones to follow. Protestant.
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edwest2
Guest
Well, if you had a doubt, what would you do? If I had a doubt, I’d do the research to make sure I understood the reasoning behind the teaching. And I’d also talk to a priest if a few things were still not clear. For me, Church teaching is the right answer. And if you have the right answer - which the Church teaches will be the most beneficial, physically and spiritually - then there is no other right answer.So does the church require non-questioning obedience? No room at all for doubts or second thoughts?
The Church is giving us the best answer about this. Sure, we can ask questions. Sure, we can get answers.
God, and the Church, do not want us to be their robots. When I read a Papal encyclical, which can be quite lengthy, the issues are presented clearly and precisely, with due consideration of the problems and concerns the faithful will experience.
I was born in the mid 1950s and there was no birth control pill. The average number of kids in my neighborhood? Two.
NFP does work.
Peace,
Ed
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Rascalking
Guest
Yes, and there is also a word for posts like yours. Rude.You’re absolutely right. Catholics should be able to think for themselves.
Not just about this, but they should think for themselves on other matters too.
After all, it’s just a piece of bread, right?
And the ludicrous idea of being born of a virgin…yeah right. Sure thing.
And any really thinking person really knows that this Jesus character either wasn’t killed in the first place or if he was…well, he just stayed dead.
Yup, Catholics should not have to hold to doctrine at all.
</facetiousness off>
On a serious note: solemnly defined doctrine is solemnly defined doctrine. There’s a word for those who pick and choose which ones to follow. Protestant.
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edwest2
Guest
The Bible tells us, with wisdom get understanding.Obedience in required. Complete understanding is not. If one does not understand something and they are troubled by it, they should seek a better understanding from the Church.
Peace,
Ed
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Rascalking
Guest
Thanks for the info Ed. I’ll keep that in mind.Well, if you had a doubt, what would you do? If I had a doubt, I’d do the research to make sure I understood the reasoning behind the teaching. And I’d also talk to a priest if a few things were still not clear. For me, Church teaching is the right answer. And if you have the right answer - which the Church teaches will be the most beneficial, physically and spiritually - then there is no other right answer.
The Church is giving us the best answer about this. Sure, we can ask questions. Sure, we can get answers.
God, and the Church, do not want us to be their robots. When I read a Papal encyclical, which can be quite lengthy, the issues are prewsented clearly and precisely, with due consideration of the problems and concerns the faithful will experience.
I was born in the mid 1950s and there was no birth control pill. The average number of kids in my neighborhood? Two.
NFP does work.
Peace,
Ed
Again, for what is the third time, I don’t even have a dog in the fight. I’m a happy bachelor. Probably because I don’t spend my time thinking about this stuff.
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wanner47
Guest
Disagreement and dissent are not discussion. They stand in defiance of the teaching authority of the Church, and thus in defiance of Christ.What I get from this thread is that free thought is not allowed. If you even have honest disagreements-your done. Period. I thought that being allowed to share ideas and discusd is a good thing. Instead, it’s let someone else think and decide for you. Thats not like the catholics in my area. Even our priest allows us to talk, ask questions, disagree and argue. We aren’t just mindless robots.
Discussion is great. Seeking clarity and understanding - great. But open dissent against binding teachings, and implying that the Church will someday change same so it’s no big deal to sin = bad.
TMC - the fact that you think Church teaching has changed in usury or chattel slavery shows that you are not informed on these issues and how doctrine has developed over time. Search for both terms at Catholic.com so you can learn what the Church really teaches instead of what you think it does.
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Murphs10
Guest
The Church has always taught that contraception is intrinsically evil. That truth is part of the deposit of the faith and it’s never going to change.
Knowing the past is sufficient to know that the Church will not change the teaching on contraception.We never know. Let’s try to remember that none of us know the future (or, if any of us do, can you help me out with some stock tips!?).
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edwest2
Guest
I see no reason to believe that will happen, although I know why some Catholics believe that.I know I will be flamed for saying this, but the Church could change this teaching. It would probably be a nuanced change, something like saying that couples have to be open to receiving the gift of new life but that each individual marital act need not be. That was considered in the 60’s but rejected by Pope Paul VI. I am not saying that faith and morals change, but the way the Church applies the underlying theology and morality to come up with practical rules about life can and does change. The Church has made similar shifts in the past and will continue do so in the future. Birth control may well be one of them.
Peace,
Ed
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wanner47
Guest
The Church has NEVER changed its binding teachings in matters of faith and morals. Disciplines and customs have changed. Doctrine, never.Well, I certainly hope you are not serious, or that if it happens you change your mind. Jesus said nothing about contraception so I don’t see why the Church changing its teaching in anyway on this one small area of its teaching would shatter anyone’s faith. The Church has made similar adjustments to the way the faith is applied to our daily lives in the past, and I am sure others will happen in the future. Birth control may or may not be one of those things, but it could well be.
As for “Jesus never said anything about _____” argument, let me ask you this. Where did Jesus say cannibalism was wrong?
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